.380: Is it really that bad?

Speedo66 said:

Bounce off? Nothing fired from an actual gun bounces off skin within a reasonable distance. Only thing I've seen even close to that was, we once had a case where a guy was shot almost point blank in the forehead with a .25. The bullet penetrated his scalp, but followed the contour of his skull under the skin and exited the scalp at the back of his head. But it did not bounce off him. Even people shot with .22's do not have them bounce off, let alone a .380.

Why do people make ridiculous unsubstantiated statements like that? Rather than enhancing, it just shows how little they know.

I've even had BB's penetrate my skin. lol

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Gun Counter Gurus will often belittle a caliber/gun/carry style that doesn’t fit their own personal definition of adequate for a task; be it a self defense handgun or a hunting arm.

Sadly; instead of listening to the customers wants, skills, needs etc. in order to find the best combination of arm and ammo for the customer, waaaay too much time is spent by the Guru attempting to coerce and convince the customer that they're a know-nothing and the Gurus choice is best. I personally think most of this is a result of intentional bias on the part of a Guru, though in some cases it may also be because the Guru gets a premium if certain arms or ammo is sold. No matter why, in both cases that isn’t serving the customer at all.

)We see the same in just about every Internet forum and I see it regularly at the public ranges as well.)

While the .380 is not a high-powered handgun round compared to many others, I’ve seen lots of people shot with a .380 and many were killed where they stood. I don’t recall ever seeing a .380 bullet bounce off of people...or coyotes-dogs... or snakes...

Stay safe.

bannockburn said:

So we went down the basement of our parent's home and set up a bullet trap with a well built wooden crate and packed it with several thick phone books.

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This is many years too late, but the best bullet trap is a bucket of sand. Fill it with a good sand, tape the mouth with 2 layers of duct tape, then roll it on its side and shoot into the taped area. It catches AK bullets, what to say about .380. As long as the sand is dry, there will be no shockwave to burst the bucket.

zaitcev

At the time we didn't have much to work with and didn't think that the little .380 would penetrate that deep through all that paper and wood! Man, that was a real wake-up call.

Years later I was helping a friend build an outdoor range at his new home in a rural part of the county. Had the contractor bulldoze the back stop then we piled bags of sand in front of this, a couple of rows deep. Nothing ever got through to the back stop, even shooting my friend's AK.

There are a few 380 loads that penetrate 12-18'' and consistently expand.
If a 380 was all I had or the best I could conceal sometimes, like limited by work attire, I'd make sure to have one of those ^ loads.

Carry a 380 when I could (can) carry a bigger caliber? No.
Whatever "modern" bullet that allows 380 to meet the 12-18'' and expand criteria is most likely also offered in 9mm, 40, 45.
If had had to defend my life would I prefer a 380 in hand over a 9mm/40/45? Nope, and I carry accordingly.

A 380 in your pocket is significantly more effective than the 9mm you left in your truck. I carry both but there's no question I carry more often since I added an LCP in a Nemesis pocket holster to the rotation simply because I can carry pretty much anywhere wearing pretty much anything, with no concerns about printing or showing the gun. The XTP seems to be a really effective option in 380.

.380: Is it really that bad?

Well, it sure beats a set of keys and sharp language, so, no.

Speedo66 said:

Bounce off? Nothing fired from an actual gun bounces off skin within a reasonable distance. Only thing I've seen even close to that was, we once had a case where a guy was shot almost point blank in the forehead with a .25. The bullet penetrated his scalp, but followed the contour of his skull under the skin and exited the scalp at the back of his head. But it did not bounce off him. Even people shot with .22's do not have them bounce off, let alone a .380.

Why do people make ridiculous unsubstantiated statements like that? Rather than enhancing, it just shows how little they know.

I've even had BB's penetrate my skin. lol

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Back when I was in the army stationed in Texas two guys from my unit were renting a place off post. One morning one of the guys was setting on the commode in the bathroom when the other guy opened the door and shot the guy on the commode between the eyes with a .22lr pistol. The round penetrated the skin but not the skull and was popped out by the doctor. He had two very serious black eyes but no concussion. Maybe a bad round or a very hard skull.

The notion that a 22 LR is better for SD than a 380 is ridiculous. Is 380 "bad"? Well, its better than 25 or 32 ACP, or any rimfire in smaller pistols. The thing is though, nowadays, one can get a 9mm pistol in a size that historically has been the size of those 380's and 32's. A new pistol of a modern design, like a Ruger LC9, or a S&W shield. With more power than a 380, and cheaper to feed. And in the $300 (or maybe less) price range. I think you are asking the wrong question. I think the question to ask is 380: Is it still relevant?

I have a Remington RM380. It is a very reliable pistol. It has never malfunctioned on me. I shoot it well and trust it completely. I do not feel undergunned when carrying it.

9mm pistols do not fit in my pocket like the .380 does. My BG380 has been back at the mothership fixing a lockback issue. I have missed that little gremlin. I prefer my compact 9mm, but the pocket .380 rules my edc rotation. I need an invisible gun for my work needs.

Im ecstatic that my .380 is back in my edc pocket and look forward to testing the gun out tomorrow.

I swore off the 380 a while ago. There just wasn't a reason for me to keep the guns or ammo laying around. I am not all that big on pocket carrying. Even if I was, I can get my PPS in a pocket without too much trouble or printing. I really like my slides to lock back when empty, or when I want them to for easier cleaning and loading. And there aren't a whole lot of 380s that I would buy that do. Wasn't impressed with the G42, M&P Bodyguard, or TCP. Not too keen on sticking a single action in my pocket so no P238. Kahr may be an option (big) if I ever picked up the caliber again.

It is a terrible choice if you load it in a 9mm pistol!



At the range a gentleman appeared to be struggling with his new 9mm Springfield EMP 3 1911. Just as he was packing up, nosey me had to saunter over to help him with his problems. Gentleman had just purchased this compact 1911 and it was not cycling. As I recall, it might have been stovepiping or leaving the empty in the chamber. He had paid some big bucks for the thing and was very disappointed. There was nothing special about the fired cases, just a little swollen in front of the extractor groove. And then I asked him for the box of ammunition and he plunked down a box of .380 unfired rounds. Once I saw the label, I figured out what the problem was. He was firing 380 auto ammunition in a 9mm. The pistol would chamber, the extractor held the case in front of the firing pin, but the round did not have enough recoil power to cycle the action. The cases were swollen more than usual, but it was good brass and did not split.

If I had looked at the case head stamp I might have figured it out earlier, but I did not. And I did not have a 9mm case to compare; held against each other, it is easy to see length differences.

Fine Figure of a Man said:

I don’t carry or even have a 380. For people concerned about concealment or wanting the smallest effective self defense gun 380s make sense. I can’t see the purpose in a full sized 380 handgun.

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There are some folks out there with arthritis in the or for other reasons that do not like recoil and need a soft shooting gun. These guns are ideal for them. And maybe some just like the 380 and the longer barrels give a little more juice and they can hold more rounds.

Well...the 90s aren't coming back, and I was never a raver/skater type. So unless I just decide to start wearing some vintage Jnco's...I'm not really getting a 9mm into a pocket So, considering the platforms one can realistically get into the pocket of a pair of pants...380 is a very good choice. Sure, you could carry a 5 shot revolver, and in 38spl that's manageable. But I shot a 357 LCR once...that's was about as cool as that dude's jeans

Riomouse911 said:

Gun Counter Gurus will often belittle a caliber/gun/carry style that doesn’t fit their own personal definition of adequate for a task; be it a self defense handgun or a hunting arm.

Sadly; instead of listening to the customers wants, skills, needs etc. in order to find the best combination of arm and ammo for the customer, waaaay too much time is spent by the Guru attempting to coerce and convince the customer that they're a know-nothing and the Gurus choice is best. I personally think most of this is a result of intentional bias on the part of a Guru, though in some cases it may also be because the Guru gets a premium if certain arms or ammo is sold. No matter why, in both cases that isn’t serving the customer at all.

)We see the same in just about every Internet forum and I see it regularly at the public ranges as well.)

While the .380 is not a high-powered handgun round compared to many others, I’ve seen lots of people shot with a .380 and many were killed where they stood. I don’t recall ever seeing a .380 bullet bounce off of people...or coyotes-dogs... or snakes...

Stay safe.

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I had a counter guy work really hard to convince me not to buy a LCR9mm because of chronic crimp jump. I just laughed and asked if he owned one? He replied No. Well this was about 4 years ago and I have not had any with the ammo I use. I shoot it often and every time I do, when I leave, I say, Man, I love that LCR9mm and shooting great!!! He gives me this look, like hey, go screw yourself.

Hasaf said:

In addition, I frequently found it with the safety off when I know I holstered it with the safety on. I never considered it to be the biggest of all possible problems, after all, it has a firing pin block, but it did give me cause for concern.

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That was one of the reasons I started searching for a replacement to the Colt... the very weak safety detent. Without the grip safety, it wouldn't take much for the pistol to fire. I started carrying it hammer down on a loaded chamber, but doing draw, cock, and shoot drills showed me that was not the hot setup, either. It's a great range pistol... now.

FL-NC said:

The notion that a 22 LR is better for SD than a 380 is ridiculous. Is 380 "bad"? Well, its better than 25 or 32 ACP, or any rimfire in smaller pistols. The thing is though, nowadays, one can get a 9mm pistol in a size that historically has been the size of those 380's and 32's. A new pistol of a modern design, like a Ruger LC9, or a S&W shield. With more power than a 380, and cheaper to feed. And in the $300 (or maybe less) price range. I think you are asking the wrong question. I think the question to ask is 380: Is it still relevant?

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I have a Shield and I carry it a lot, but it's a ton bigger than my LCP and no way is it going to fit in my pocket nearly as easily (or at all, in most of my pockets). Both have a place in my rotation.

Fine Figure of a Man said:

I can’t see the purpose in a full sized 380 handgun.

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That was the conclusion I came to... with the newer compact designs of 9mm pistols, you can get 9mm power in a slightly bigger package... but it IS bigger.



For that matter... you can get .45ACP power in a package slightly bigger than a 9mm... but, again, it IS bigger.



Upper left... Kahr CW9, Upper right, Kahr P45... it's only slightly bigger in each dimension, but it's slightly bigger in all the wrong places for me to conceal... and considerably bigger than the Colt .380 below it.

To each his own... if a slim, full-size .380 is what fits the bill, great! It beats a 9mm or .45ACP back in the truck console, or at home on the nightstand.

Jeb Stuart said:

I had a counter guy work really hard to convince me not to buy a LCR 9mm because of chronic crimp jump.

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I have a Taurus revolver in .380 and never had issues with the bullets uncrimping. That said, not all .380 bullets fit into the cylinder chambers on the Taurus.

Heir Kommt Die Sonne said:

I was at a gun shop and these two people were mentioning .380 as being a round that 'bounces off people'. Plus I heard a story of a SD instructor telling a story of a .380 being emptied at a guy, "we found No damage on the guy.. they bounced off".

Tallball, thanks for the .380 suggestions. Those all look like good .380 Handguns. I thought the Bersa's and Sigs were the only good full size .380s. Looks like I have more to add to my gun wishlist!

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Let me guess the guy was wearing either suspenders or bib overalls and driving a retired police car.

zaitcev said:

I have a Taurus revolver in .380 and never had issues with the bullets uncrimping. That said, not all .380 bullets fit into the cylinder chambers on the Taurus.

View attachment 846992

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Interesting, I was just thinking of what a 380 would be like in a LCR. I knew Taurus had one, but heard the trigger as a little strong. How do you like shooting it? Seems like it would make a nice little package. Ammo also cheaper than 32. etc.

Jeb Stuart said:

Interesting, I was just thinking of what a 380 would be like in a LCR. I knew Taurus had one, but heard the trigger as a little strong. How do you like shooting it?

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The Taurus 380 had some issues and is not my favorite.

The trigger is much too tough, and I had a mixed success with improving it. Although Wolff spring kit for Model 85 worked for Bruce "mousegunaddict", it caused light strikes for me. I removed the lock from the hammer and filled the cavity with molten lead, but it wasn't quit enough. So, I ended with the trigger return spring from the Wolff kit, but kept the factory mainspring. I still think the bobbed hammer is too light.

The rear sight wobbles and/or sits crooked. I think I should just machine a dovetail for some kind of decent rear sight, like Glock's. Just need to find one that's low enough. I cannot fathom my Taurus can't do it at the factory.

The factory clips are junk. Rounds wobble enough to make reloads a clumsy, lengthy affair. The clips also lose tension quickly. Supposedly TK Custom sells better clips, but it's $32 for a set of 5.

The most curious problem is that the cylinders are not drilled correctly for .380. The diameter of the bore beyond the case mouth is too small for some bullets. So, some brands of ammunition do not fit, although others do. The verdict from the THR's hive-mind was that it's common in revolvers and all I need is to ream them the chambers. Supposedly there are smiths specializing in this kind of job.
https://www.thehighroad.org/index.php?threads/reaming-chambers-a-little.837353/

Overall, it's a fun toy and cute like a button.

Don't own one, but know many that love them. Have shot them and they are nice. I do have one in 22.cal and love the feel in my hand.

Heir Kommt Die Sonne said:

What do you all think of Bersa's ?

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I'm pretty certain that the era of Bersa's cracked frames is behind us. A recent production gun will easily last several thousand rounds. That said, it remains a large blowback gun, so fundamentally is not much better than SIG P232 or Walther PPK (which is produced in the U.S. starting this year). Not all that much cheaper, either. And has a lock.