9mm rear rim not sizing?

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Nicksterish

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I'm fairly new at relaoding handgun cartridges. I've read the instructions on setting up all of the dies. (I've reloaded rifle cartridges.) The problem I am having with some of the brass is that it's not sizing all the way?? But my die is set up right? About 3 didn't fit in the L.e Wilson gauge out of about 30 that I've reloaded.

O.A.L 1.099
Rear of the rim 3.88
DOES NOT FIT IN THE GAUGE

O.AL 1.095
Rear of the rim 3.86
This round fits in the gauge easily.

Any suggestions?
 
The decapping pin itself could be pushed too far downward that it is preventing the case from fully entering the full height of the sizing walls.
If you haven't already, readjust the decapping pin so that it only barely removes the primer.

The ones that are a little longer OAL probably aren't being sized fully, because the decapping pin is preventing the rest of the length from entering the die. So yeah I'd readjust the decapping pin so that it barely removes the primer on the slightly longer cases.
 
The decapping pin itself could be pushed too far downward that it is preventing the case from fully entering the full height of the sizing walls.
If you haven't already, readjust the decapping pin so that it only barely removes the primer.

The ones that are a little longer OAL probably aren't being sized fully, because the decapping pin is preventing the rest of the length from entering the die. So yeah I'd readjust the decapping pin so that it barely removes the primer on the slightly longer cases.


I'll have to try that out. Hopefully it works
 
Good idea using a cartridge guage! If adjusting your dies doesn't solve the issue, I recommend the Lee Bulge Buster. I've used it successfully.
 
Good idea using a cartridge guage! If adjusting your dies doesn't solve the issue, I recommend the Lee Bulge Buster. I've used it successfully.


Sparkyv, I thought it was a great idea to get the bulge buster kit too and all so bought lee factory cropping die. I've tan those 3 bullets through the bulge buster. I can feel the tension but it didnt do anything
 
Lee doesn't make a bulge buster for anything but straight sided cases, 9mm is tapered but I've seen where 9mm Epiphany said that you can use a 9mm Makarov factory crimp die with the top ring removed with the bulge buster and it will fix the bulge on the head of the 9mm case.
Maybe he will join us here and verify this.
Some dies like the Hornady 9mm dies have a larger bevel on the bottom of the resizing die to accommodate the LNL-AP progressive press so the cases can start easier into the die without catching on the edge of the carbide ring.
This also keeps the die from sizing down as far as it could on the case, as far as it could. I had that problem on my LNL-AP until I started using RCBS resizing dies. They have hardly any bevel and like some of the Lee resizing dies, they go down on the case far enough to get the cases back into form.

I use RCBS resizing dies for my 9mm and they do catch once in a while on my LNL-AP due to a very small bevel on bottom of the ring, but I never have cases that won't chamber in my guns or don't want to come back out.

That doesn't mean they will all plunk in a Wilson case gauge.
I have one of those gauges for my .357 mag cases and I have yet to find one that doesn't want to go in the gauge without rubbing, not fall in and out of one of my cylinders. Usually it's a bullet that is seated a little crooked.

Something else, just because it won't go in your case gage doesn't mean it won't plunk in your 9mm barrel. I use my barrel with the shortest leade to check my 9mm loads with. They have to be absolutely perfect to all drop in and out of the Wilson case gauge, it is made for the minimum dimensions.
You look long enough you will find factory ammo that won't pass that test.
 
Remember, a standard resizing die does not resize all the way down to the rim. There is a small part of the case head that will not get resized. It usually does not need it.

The OP did not mention the brand of the cases he was loading, but I have found some 9x19 cases mostly from foreign manufacturers will not fit easily in my shell plates. When I encounter these, I toss them. They functioned in my guns but are a pain to reload. I think I've has similar problems with WCC cases.

Just a couple things to look at.
 
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Sparkyv, I just purchased that got it in today and was had ran the ram up and I could feel the tension. But it still didnt fix it.
 
The 9MM case is tapered, so make sure the sizing die is all te way down when actually sizing a case, not just touching when running the ram up with no case.

I gauge all my sized 9MM brass now. Expect 10% to 15% of range brass to fail the Wilson gauge. Just toss it in the scrap bucket. If a sized case doesn't fall back out of the gauge of its own weight, I scrap it. Since I had a tight chambered (SAMMI Minimum) chamber, I had to start doing this.

After that, unless you are running hot, you shouldn't lose many to the gauge any more.


Wilson 9MM Case Gauge Pic 1.JPG

Don't worry about the ones that fail, just scrap them. :)
Wilson Guage with Failed 9MM FC case.JPG
 
The 9MM case is tapered, so make sure the sizing die is all te way down when actually sizing a case, not just touching when running the ram up with no case.

I gauge all my sized 9MM brass now. Expect 10% to 15% of range brass to fail the Wilson gauge. Just toss it in the scrap bucket. If a sized case doesn't fall back out of the gauge of its own weight, I scrap it. Since I had a tight chambered (SAMMI Minimum) chamber, I had to start doing this.

After that, unless you are running hot, you shouldn't lose many to the gauge any more.


View attachment 846802

Don't worry about the ones that fail, just scrap them. :)
View attachment 846803

Thanks walkalong!
 
Something else, just because it won't go in your case gage doesn't mean it won't plunk in your 9mm barrel. I use my barrel with the shortest leade to check my 9mm loads with. They have to be absolutely perfect to all drop in and out of the Wilson case gauge, it is made for the minimum dimensions.
You look long enough you will find factory ammo that won't pass that test.

Thats what I was going to say. Forget the gauge and try them in your barrel. I load for three different 9mm guns and have never had a round not seat in the barrel. I am using Lee dies by the way. And when setting the sizing die look at it with the ram all the way up and make certain it is all the way down to the shell holder. Just adjusting without a case in it will not give you the full length sizing. I am guessing that gauge is a whole lot tighter than most 9mm barrels and chambers.
 
The normal reloading process cannot resize the entire case. You have a shell holder or shell plate that has to have purchase on the rim to remove it from the die. You also need a radius on the mouth of the die so the case can enter in the first place.

So you are left with the bottom portion unsized. You can insert many of the ones that fail the case gauge, into the gauge backwards and give them a twist or two and they will then pass (don’t do this with an aluminum one though).

Other than that a roll sizer will get the base and even the extractor grove. Cleans up any dings or dents from extractors/ejectors that otherwise fail with “normal” process.

CDA325DC-98C9-4ED5-8804-2D0085FFCBA5.jpeg

FWIW your barrel will not “fail” the case with a messed up rim because it has zero contact with that portion.

C469C5EA-9D5D-4BE2-A109-29472F2FB8EF.jpeg

So you have a round that “plunks” but for some reason you have occasional malfunctions that have no explanation, because you only made sure they would fall into and out of the barrel.

The FTF happened because the problem was entering the breech face.
246A5943-9F79-464E-8F45-9E36A013A445.jpeg

This is why timed competitive shooters, that are successful, case gauge every round that is shot “on the clock”.
 
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Further thoughts:
  • Make sure the shell plate is touching the die with the brass in it. Even a paper-thin line of light will dramatically increase the number of rounds that won't gauge.
  • With any semi-auto round, regardless of how you resize them, you will get a few refusals to gauge due to a burr or protrusion on the rim. These can be very minor.
  • As others have noted, case gauges are, by design, tight and unforgiving. That's the point. If it fits the gauge, then you should know it will fit the chamber, regardless of orientation or minor accumulation of soot from prior rounds.
  • Hot 9mm loads (particularly 9 Major, something you will encounter if you're getting brass from a place that hosts USPSA matches) will often stretch the brass below the places where a conventional die can reach.
  • I gauge all my rounds. (For 9mm, I actually use one of these, since it's very fast - https://benstoegerproshop.com/100-round-9mm-luger-hundo-chamber-checker-cartridge-case-gauge/ ). I load on a progressive in a single pass, so the first (only) time the brass sees a gauge is after it's completely loaded. The ones that don't quite gauge get a marker slash across the cartridge base and get used as practice ammo. The stuff that gauges is match-grade ammo. The practice ammo works very nearly as reliably in my guns as the "perfect" stuff, but I prefer to minimize the chance of a dinged rim costing me in a timed event... and I'm far too cheap to just throw the whole round away for something that doesn't give me safety concerns.
 
I'm fairly new at relaoding handgun cartridges. I've read the instructions on setting up all of the dies. (I've reloaded rifle cartridges.) The problem I am having with some of the brass is that it's not sizing all the way?? But my die is set up right? About 3 didn't fit in the L.e Wilson gauge out of about 30 that I've reloaded.

O.A.L 1.099
Rear of the rim 3.88
DOES NOT FIT IN THE GAUGE

O.AL 1.095
Rear of the rim 3.86
This round fits in the gauge easily.

Any suggestions?
Read the directions on how to set your dies up properly. I use the barrel from the pistol I am loading for as the gauge, I've never liked the Idea of a separate gauge. If it doesn't 'plunk' in your barrel, set it aside along with any other ones, remove the decapper from the sizing die and run them through one more time. If they still don't plunk in your barrel, deconstruct them and pitch the brass.
 
View attachment 846814

FWIW your barrel will not “fail” the case with a messed up rim because it has zero contact with that portion.

View attachment 846821

So you have a round that “plunks” but for some reason you have occasional malfunctions that have no explanation, because you only made sure they would fall into and out of the barrel.

The FTF happened because the problem was entering the breech face.
View attachment 846820

This is why timed competitive shooters, that are successful, case gauge every round that is shot “on the clock”.

Thank you for this very well-illustrated explanation as to the kind of thing that case gauging will catch that plunk tests won't. Conversely, most case gauges don't test for a land/ogive interference issue. Unfortunately, there's a role for both the barrel plunk and the case gauge. The barrel plunk is critical in setting up the dies. The case gauging is beneficial as QC on finished rounds. It's not an either-or, at least if you really, really, really care about reliability.

If a 1% TRB occurrence is fine and you consider it "good practice," then case gauging can be skipped.
 
Unfortunately, there's a role for both the barrel plunk and the case gauge. The barrel plunk is critical in setting up the dies.

Yes, the ammunition does have to fit the barrel and yes I loaded for several decades before ever buying a casegauge. I still don’t case gauge every round I shoot but do casegauge every round I shoot in timed competition.
 
I load 9mm for IDPA and USPSA. I do not double handle my brass, it comes off the range, through the tumbler, in the Dillon, and comes out loaded.
Normal operation for 147 gr ESP/Lim Minor loads.
Dillon resizing die. (I use an EGW/Lee "U" die for the occasional batch of 115 gr bullets.)
Dillon "powder funnel" (I have a MR "M" type that gave some peculiarities the first try, but I will work with it some more.)
Hornady Microjust seating die. (Much more convenient than Dillon, less expensive than Redding.)
Lee Carbide Factory Crimp die. (Normal contact is near the casehead where the sizing die mouth radius leaves brass as-fired. It does not "size down the bullet" as the Internet Experts warn us.)

I adjust OAL for a new bullet by plunking in my Colt barrel which has a shorter throat than my SA or other 9mm.
I gauge loaded ammo 100% in a Lyman one-holer. No $99 Hundo here.
Minor rim burrs can be ironed out by reversing the cartridge and giving it a twist in the gauge mouth.
Minor gauge failures go in the practice box. I can't remember the last time one of those did not chamber and fire. It has been a long time since I had a major gauge failure not good for anything but pulling down to salvage what components I could.

.45s are different. I don't use a CFC die for .45 ACP so I will occasionally get a round that is bulged over the bullet. Large bullet or thick brass. (Bullets are seated straighter by the Hornady die, seldom see an offcenter bulge.) I CFC it on the single stage and direct it to practice. 7 yard fast draw doesn't care if the bullet is squished a bit.
 
Just wanted to share what helped me fix majority of these rounds. In case another person has the same issue. First found out which ones will pass the plunk test and which ones didn't. Read/ researched what could possibly be the issue. The bottom of the cases where off by .002. Bought lee factory crimp die 9mm Makarov. And bought lee bulge buster kit. Ran the fully loaded round bullet end in first. Didnt fix the problem. Read online form where someone didnt recommended doing it with loaded cases. Inserted just the brass through the 9mm Makarov and bulge buster kit backwards. Primmer side up. Fixed the part not getting sized on the bottom of the case but got stuck in the shell holder that comes with bulge buster. So I found out that a .308 shell holder works great. No more issues!!
 
I've only been loading 9mm since 1967, so I can't claim to know it all. But some of you guys sure go to a lot of trouble with 9mm cases. I do get it if one lives in an area where 9mm cases are difficult or unusually expensive to acquire. I've never owned a 9mm case gauge, but just make sure my resized cases will drop into my tightest 9mm chamber. Then make sure a loaded round will pass the "plunk" test into whichever gun has the shortest and/or tightest leade into the rifling. If I have an issue or concern about a cartridge case, or cases, I pitch it/them. This has worked without issue using RCBS, Lee and Dillon presses and dies. Pretty boring, uncomplicated approach I know, but it has produced ammo that has functioned with boring reliability in my 9mm pistols, revolvers and carbines for a very long time............YMMV;)
 
Until I got an EMP with a SAMMI minimum chamber, I happily did much the same, but the first trip to the range with the EMP locked it up tighter than a drum. Same reloads ran like a champ in everything else.
 
Walkalong, Sounds like you have a new "EMP case gauge" to use for future reloads;) I have a 9mm BarSto barrel that I suspect has a near minimum chamber, noticeably tighter than any other 9mm barrel I have. Thus far, if a case will drop into that one, the case will easily drop into any of the other 9s I have. A family member has an EMP. I may have to barrow that one of these days and see if it has a chamber tighter than the BarSto.
 
Remember, a standard resizing die does not resize all the way down to the rim
My RCBS carbide sizing die dose not, I have not measured it but it is a ways from sizing the full length of the case.
Its never caused a issue for me.
 
1) No sizing die, except for a push-through die, can touch the case rim. There's a shell holder in the way.
2) Lee 9mm Mak FCD works great for me with 9x19 and 9x21 cases as a Bulge Buster, though a little case lube helps.
 
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