Why is my first shot always high

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I will agree that no two barrels are exactly alike and the way they perform will confound any predictions that they "always do that".

I wanted to see just how repeatable greased bullets are on target. This is a practice, very popular around WW1 because the bullet jackets of the era fouled something awful and it took nasty chemicals to remove cupronickel fouling. I know the Austrialians were still greasing their 303 British rounds in the 1940's, and the Swiss were still greasing their service rifle ammunition until the 1970's.

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I either greased this first shot like this
View attachment 847811

or this

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This is the rifle, not a target rifle, but a first year production M70

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First shot at 300 yards, clean and oiled barrel, greased bullets, using zero's established at a previous range session.

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The rest of the ten shot string

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I always clean my barrels between matches, if the period between matches is days. I have shot tens of thousands of rounds in NRA competition, occasionally the match would have to start at the 600 yard line, for range maintenance reasons, and I got to see that hardly used match barrels would print their first shot in the X ring. I did not get to place the first shot at 600 yards with a well used barrel, but at 200 yards, bullets from a high mileage barrel would walk until the barrel was fouled. That was around two to three rounds, might be more if I shot really worn barrels.

I have seen point of impact on my smallbore prone rifles walk as the bore fouled. I will throw 2 shots into the berm and all is good after that.

And I has seen the first shot from a clean and oiled target pistol print way away from the pistol zero with a fouled barrel. Around shot three the barrel is shooting to its previous zero.

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I would like to try more cold bore greased shots at long distance to see if constant bore lubrication produces repeatable zero's. Generally I want to try something different each trip so I probably won't get around to it.

One real problem with all non mechanical rest shooting, is that my position on the rifle or pistol first shot is always going to be different as I settle in! I see that time and again during practice, or, during my sighters in small bore prone. I will shoot enough sighters to make sure I and the rifle, are sufficiently fouled.
Wow. Good info.
I see similarities with some of my results.
Thanks for posting.
 
Does it do it with fouled barrel? If so I think trying a different propellant may be in order. Maybe trying a different brand of factory ammo to see if it has a flier on the first shot. The bullets are not the same between your factory loads and reloads. This could be the issue. Going to have to change one thing at a time to find the solution.
 
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Does it do it with fouled barrel? If so I think trying a different propellant may be in order. Maybe trying a different brand of factory ammo to see if it has a flier on the first shot. The bullets are not the same between your factory loads and reloads. This could be the issue. Going to have to change one thing at a time to find the solution.
This is a five shot group from a $13 box of s&b factory
 
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This is a five shot group from a $13 box of s&b factory
If it does like that each time using factory ammo and your reloads don't match or exceed it; I say your load is in question.
Try a bullet similar to the S&B bullet, change powder and/or seating depth.
The accuracy of the one isn't even close to the other. But we also don't see a trend because this is 2 lone targets.
 
It’s always the first SHOT
That doesn’t surprise me at all.
There’s lots of very good suggestions posted from several members. I would review them all and self diagnose in the most objective manner.
Accurate shooting on a consistent basis is much about reducing variables. IMO and FWIW
Shoot Small ‘
J
Additionally first shot fliers could be as simple as anticipation of recoil
 
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It’s always the first SHOT
Got a new idea, chamber a round, get into the scope, put your finger on the trigger, and then stop, eject the round, put it aside, and shoot the next 4, then fire the first shot. If that doesn't work try the 1st half of that process with all 5 rounds, if you can see the group you now have different problems. ;)
I am still going to say that it's time to try a different powder or projectile and go from there, also, put all all 20 s&b on 1 target, then try your load with 20, if they still show such contrast you KNOW it's your components, period.
 
Ok I’m new to reloading been doing it for a couple years I don’t mean to be short but I’m just frustrated. I made up rounds for my .270 and they work great. I’m open for suggestions on powder primer and hornady bullet I’m not getting away from hornady
 
That doesn’t surprise me at all.
There’s lots of very good suggestions posted from several members. I would review them all and self diagnose in the most objective manner.
Accurate shooting on a consistent basis is much about reducing variables. IMO and FWIW
Shoot Small ‘
J
Additionally first shot fliers could be as simple as anticipation of recoil
Thanks south prairie jim
 
You get in your truck with your rifle and the AC running between shots. Where is the ammo? Outside in the sun? Getting cold in the front seat? Inside your range bag, protected from temperature fluctuations?

I'm pretty sure some powders are more temperature sensitive than other. Maybe that's why the factory ammo doesn't do what your reloads are doing.
 
I have data for my rifle with:
A clean cold barrel
A fouled cold barrel
A fouled warm barrel

All three are slightly different but insignificant for hunting, only for accuracy match points.

This. For rifles where that type of accuracy is important.
 
Ok I’m new to reloading been doing it for a couple years I don’t mean to be short but I’m just frustrated. I made up rounds for my .270 and they work great. I’m open for suggestions on powder primer and hornady bullet I’m not getting away from hornady
Your coal is 2.8, what's the coal on the s&b? They use a "blunter" bullet, thus possibly contacting the lands sooner..... also I've been hard pressed to make a flat base shoot ugly, in hornady there are the 129 and 140 sp flat based bullets, now these won't get down range like the slicked out elds, and honestly a creed shouldn't have issues with longer bullets as factory barrels come faster twisted, BUT if you can't get a flat base to out shoot s&b we KNOW that there's something else awry...... even the sst should theoretically stabilize better than the eld, but flat bases just shoot straight period as for powders, i4350 comes to mind, BUT if temperature could be a cause, (and in my local conditions it usually plays a part) then I'd check out imr4451. However I recommend not changing coal, bullet, and powder all at once. I'd start playing with coal, then powder, then bullet and if a creed will only shoot a flat base, I'd get rid of the barrel. Still suggesting a 20 vs 20 group as well.
 
Seating depth is 2.800t

That is not what I would call a "seating depth". That is a COAL.
A more relevant measurement would be BTO (Base to Ogive), or "From the Lands"

Find your lands. Jump 0.02". Work a load with a ladder test.

Stop all this "in the truck with a/c" nonsense, unless that is how you hunt.

Check your crown for defects (unlikely).
The S&B target shows two shots high at 1 o'clock...?

I have no experience with the powder you mention but it could be temp sensitive. How long between shots? Are the second, third etc cooking in a warm chamber?
What is your MV?

Not sure if I'm allowed to mention, but check accurateshooter.com. Plenty of folk there shoot plenty more accurate than I can. That group would be more like a 500yd one and they'd be kicking themselves for f*ing it up.
 
You get in your truck with your rifle and the AC running between shots. Where is the ammo? Outside in the sun? Getting cold in the front seat? Inside your range bag, protected from temperature fluctuations?

I'm pretty sure some powders are more temperature sensitive than other. Maybe that's why the factory ammo doesn't do what your reloads are doing.
It’s H4350 Hodgdon isn’t temperature sensitive or so I have been told and read the reloads were in the truck I’m not going to leave them laying on the bench in 90 degree sun
 
That is not what I would call a "seating depth". That is a COAL.
A more relevant measurement would be BTO (Base to Ogive), or "From the Lands"

Find your lands. Jump 0.02". Work a load with a ladder test.

Stop all this "in the truck with a/c" nonsense, unless that is how you hunt.

Check your crown for defects (unlikely).
The S&B target shows two shots high at 1 o'clock...?

I have no experience with the powder you mention but it could be temp sensitive. How long between shots? Are the second, third etc cooking in a warm chamber?
What is your MV?

Not sure if I'm allowed to mention, but check accurateshooter.com. Plenty of folk there shoot plenty more accurate than I can. That group would be more like a 500yd one and they'd be kicking themselves for f*ing it up.
I don’t hunt from the truck I got back in the truck to cool the dam barrel off quicker lol sheeesshh
 
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