Pair of old Colt's

Fingers McGee · Jul 2, 2019

Second Generation Colt's are getting scarcer and scarcer to find. Especially the presentation and limited edition models - it's next to impossible. So, I've decided to take my collecting in another direction; First Generation Colt's percussion revolvers - specifically 1851 Navies and 6 shot 1849 Pocket Models. My first foray into this is winning the bid on a Rock Island Auction lot that had one of each. Took delivery today on an early 3rd Model 1851 Navy made in 1852, and a 6 shot 1849 Pocket model made in 1863. Both are in what I would consider great shape for their age with some traces of original finish and fully functional with good lockup. All markings and cylinder scenes are present and legible. I may have paid too much; but I don't care.

Patocazador · Jul 2, 2019

Very nice condition considering their age.

How much was too much (if you don't mind)?

Fingers McGee · Jul 2, 2019

High auction estimate was $1500. It was a little more than twice that after buyer's premium and shipping.

J-Bar · Jul 2, 2019

May I be the first to say I’m jealous??

They look great even though they are upside down on my phone!!

1KPerDay · Jul 2, 2019

Very nice. You going to shoot them? I have a couple 1849s and a navy and some others but no 6 shot '49s. I haven't shot any of mine yet.

Fingers McGee · Jul 3, 2019

Doug - photos are upside down on my desktop - don't really know why

1K - may shoot them after a good inspection and tune

LonesomePigeon · Jul 4, 2019

Congratulations! Those look very nice. Looks like the edges are sharp, nice markings and good cylinder scene. I just got my first original too, a Remington 1863 New Model Army. The craftsmanship of these 19th Century guns is amazing.

Do you notice any significant difference in the balance of an original 1851 vs. a 2nd Gen 1851?

Fingers McGee · Jul 4, 2019

Without putting them on a scale, they feel and point about the same as the pair of C series 2d Gens I use in CAS matches. We'll see how it shoots Saturday when I go to the range & make some smoke.

Fingers McGee · Jul 4, 2019

I spent an hour or so yesterday afternoon stripping the Navy down for a good inspection. All of the screws and nipples came out with little effort. I even used my zero torque $5 electric screwdriver getting them out. The nipples are unlike any I've seen before. The flash hole is too small for my nipple pick, the bottom is domed, and the sides are straight up & down, not tapered, and they are like new. The mainspring is about twice as thick as a Uberti or Pietta, which explains the extremely heavy cocking force required. It's sporting a standard Uberti spring now.. Cylinder cleaned up nicely, and the bore was worn & pitted as would be expected, but isn't really that bad. I didn't take any pictures during the process, It is sitting in the in safe ready to go out & make smoke. Plan is to do so this coming Saturday.

Tis pistol is in fine shape. Who ever had this before me took very, vey good care of it. It may have cost me a petty penny; but I think it was worth it. I just hope I have he same opinion after it gets used.

randys · Jul 4, 2019

On your Navy, and since you are working on it, what are bore, approximate groove, and cylinder chamber mouth diameters, if you don't mind?

bannockburn · Jul 4, 2019

Fingers McGee

Very, very cool to have such historical pieces and to still be able to use them after all this time!

Fingers McGee · Aug 1, 2019

Here are a few more pictures of the Navy. The pocket model is in the shop getting the loading lever repaired.

indy1919a4 · Aug 1, 2019

Those look nice, Honest to God who cares the price as long as you are happy... Life is to short not to get something you long for...

Maybe the guns were meant to be sold to Australia, thats why the photos are upside down???

Tommygunn · Aug 2, 2019

indy1919a4 said:
Those look nice, Honest to God who cares the price as long as you are happy... Life is to short not to get something you long for...

Maybe the guns were meant to be sold to Australia, thats why the photos are upside down???

I thought the Aussies banned those ..... :evil:

Fingers McGee · Aug 2, 2019

randys said:
On your Navy, and since you are working on it, what are bore, approximate groove, and cylinder chamber mouth diameters, if you don't mind?

I've compared the Navy to a 2nd Gen C series Navy and a stainless steel Uberti Navy.

Weight: 1st Gen - 2lb, 9 7/8 oz ; 2nd Gen - 2lb, 9 3/4 oz; Stainless Uberti - 2lb, 10 3/4 oz
Cylinder bore: 1st Gen - 0.374 to 0.375; 2nd Gen - 0.372 to 0.374; stainless Uberti - 0.371 to 0.373
Barrel: 1st Gen - 0.374 (?) ; 2nd Gen - 0.372 (?) ; Stainless Uberti - 0.371 (?)

randys · Aug 3, 2019

Fingers McGee said:
I've compared the Navy to a 2nd Gen C series Navy and a stainless steel Uberti Navy.

Weight: ...

Thank you for the response. I don't get close enough to originals to take them apart.

One question on second picture, middle barrel. Is that C Series? I've owned 5, all had rifling depth equivalent to stainless barrel on right. Middle barrel has relatively shallow rifling.

My goal is to understand whether "modern", shallow (< .004") rifling is losing something in accuracy and function.
By my measure:
original was .010" to .012" deep;
Uberti/2nd Gen is .008" to .010", up to 2010;
Pietta, & Uberti after 2010, .003" to .005".

Modern dogma has it that bullet should at least match groove diameter, & shallow rifling is all that is needed. Works for jacketed & alloy lead bullets. With C&B revolvers, recent manufacturers have the rifling shallow to better match chamber-mouth to groove diameter (result of consumer demand?) For CAS, shallow rifling is good enough (close range, opportunity to wipe barrel after every 5 shots.) Is shallow rifling best for soft pure lead bullets and black powder? Gain-twist rifling isn't missed anymore; what about depth?

Were the original Colt engineers using antiquated concepts for rifling depth, or did they know something modern makers choose to ignore?

Fingers McGee · Aug 3, 2019

Yes, the middle barrel is a C Series made in 1975. Barrel on the right is a stainless Uberti barrel from 1983.

Pair of old Colt's

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