Extraction problem

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Nature Boy

Nature Boy

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I’m having an issue that may be rifle related or my reloading process.

My Mausingfield is having difficulty extracting the brass at the top of the bolt throw. It takes a a good bit of effort to break the spent case loose from the chamber.

I thought a change in powder lots may have pushed me into excess pressure but I just got back from the range shooting some reduced loads and it’s still doing it.

Dirty chamber? I’ve made sure it’s clean as a whistle and verify it with my bore scope.

Maybe something wrong with the extractor? It’s
a Mauser-type claw extractor.

I’m FL sizing my brass. I’m bumping the shoulder back .002-.003

I’m going to take some more measurements of sized and fired brass to see if something jumps out.

This is a recent issue that started with ~30% of cases hard to extract but today it was 100%

Really strange. It’s not sticking on the bolt lift, it’s at the top of the stroke

I’m going to check sized brass with a case gage and see how they chamber.

Any ideas?
 
No clue I hope you get it figured out quick I’m sure if it’s the gun Ted will make it right!
 
Could there be too much gap between the extractor and the face. . . therefore primary extraction doesn't occur until too late, when the extractor contacts the rim?

What happens if you re-chamber fired brass?
 
Nature Boy said:
I’m bumping the shoulder back .002-.003
Click to expand...
Are you positive? That would do it. It's what the neck sizing crowd runs into after a few firings, sometimes sooner. Checking it every sizing? Annealing every time? Any rub marks on the case head from grinding against the bolt when it rotates? Die body need to be a hair tighter? How many firings on those cases?
 
Nature Boy said:
This is a recent issue that started with ~30% of cases hard to extract but today it was 100%
Click to expand...
Brass is definitely getting tight in the chamber. As it gets fired more times it work hardens and springs back less. One reason many anneal every time, even though you can get away with every second or third time usually. All depends. How much it is getting worked and what pressure it is fired at.
 
Walkalong said:
Brass is definitely getting tight in the chamber. As it gets fired more times it work hardens and springs back less. One reason many anneal every time, even though you can get away with every second or third time usually. All depends. How much it is getting worked and what pressure it is fired at.
Click to expand...

I anneal every time.

Just checked fired vs sized and it is indeed .002-.003

Maybe I’ll resize some and push it back even further.

Also, a few months back I started using a Widden custom die that was honed to my chamber specs. In order to rule that out I resized this batch with my old Dillon die. No difference. Problem still there
 
BTW, every sized case passes the case gage

Edit: so do the fired cases.

Got to be something wrong with the extractor
 
see if the bolt/extractor will hold a case when removed from the rifle. If it will do that id doubt your extractors the cause.
It sounds to me like Walkalongs right, and your cases are perhaps just a bit tight, tho perhaps not long. Maybe try using a black sharpy to color a case and see where its sticking....id honestly guess its right at the head.
 
If you can chamber rounds and close the bolt easily, should not be a sizing issue, correct! I had a small ring 308 mauser doing it but only when I shoot standard 308 load, reduced loads are fine. my guess is the lugs are peened.
 
If I'm reading your post right, you're basically getting stiff resistance right at the end of your bolt rotation? Is it possible that the resistance is coming from the bolt itself and not the case? I'm not very familiar with the Mausingfield, but perhaps something needs lube in the caming subassembly, or galling has developed on a bearing surface.

I had a Tikka that got to where it was sometimes (on a random, but increasing basis) difficult to close the bolt, and when this happened the trigger pull also got much heavier. It wound up being an aftermarket aluminum bolt shroud that was sometimes being forced up against the raceway. Judicious application of a file and emery cloth cured the issue.

If you've cleared the brass, the bolt assembly itself seems like the next major suspect.
 
While the absolute first thing to do when encountering extraction issues is to cut your loads and continue cutting, I think Gtscotty is on the right path. The Mauser action has an extraction cam on the receiver bridge and the boot handle root rides this cam providing primary extraction. Take a look at the receiver cam and see if it is dented or worn. If so, that is one possible cause.
 
I hope I haven’t galled something. I always apply Lubriplate to the back of the lugs as my last step of the cleaning process.

I’ve got around 3k rounds on this action
 
I made some dummy rounds and they all ejected fine, for what that’s worth.

The brass I was having trouble with yesterday had 6 firings on it. I’m going to resize some of that and push the shoulder back another .002.

I also have some brass that’s got 3 firings on it and I’ll load some and check those too.

I’ll run 0.5g less powder than my competition load

I’ll also make sure the bolt has lube in the lug area as well as the ejection cam area

I’m up early cooking a brisket. Once I get that to stage 2 I’ll head to the range
 
Last edited:
The issue seems to follow the brass. My batch with 6 firings, even bumping the shoulder back .004, is still causing the issue, but not as much now.

My brass with 3 cycles ran flawlessly.

The brass with 6 cycles will be going into the scrap bucket.

I’m going to keep some extra Lubriplate in the range bag too just to make sure I keep the extractor cam area from getting dry.
 
May need a sizer that is slightly tighter in the body. A couple of different companies will make you a sizer if you send them some cases.

Check the case heads compared to new brass or once fired brass with a good micrometer, see if they have expanded too much after being fired 6 times.

Might be running a bit hot.
 
Nature Boy said:
The issue seems to follow the brass. My batch with 6 firings, even bumping the shoulder back .004, is still causing the issue, but not as much now.

My brass with 3 cycles ran flawlessly.

The brass with 6 cycles will be going into the scrap bucket.

I’m going to keep some extra Lubriplate in the range bag too just to make sure I keep the extractor cam area from getting dry.
Click to expand...

Out of curiosity, what is your competition load?
 
Walkalong said:
May need a sizer that is slightly tighter in the body. A couple of different companies will make you a sizer if you send them some cases.

Check the case heads compared to new brass or once fired brass with a good micrometer, see if they have expanded too much after being fired 6 times.

Might be running a bit hot.
Click to expand...

My Widden .308 dies are honed to the fired case dimensions.

Like most problems, it’s usually never one thing.

I think the load running hot was one factor. Changed H4895 powder lots. Original load on old lot was 43.5g netting 2,720 fps. The rounds I shot this morning using 43.0g chrono’d at 2,747
 
Nature Boy said:
Really strange. It’s not sticking on the bolt lift, it’s at the top of the stroke
Click to expand...

I’d think it surprising if you had a primary extraction failure AND a case head expansion problem at the same time. Of course, that’s assuming the Mausingfield has ample primary extraction. If it doesn’t, then DEFINITELY casehead expansion. If it does, then I concur - really strange. I’ve always felt oversized bodies as sticky bolt at the primary cam. Never had an easy lift with sticky secondary.

Definitely check your rims and heads for smear witness marks, as if they bolt is turning around the stuck case.
 
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