Washington States new NICS process and your direct experiences

EmGeeGeorge · Jul 4, 2019

So, just purchased a pistol; filled out the paperwork to include the waiver of medical record confidentiality.

That was this past Monday the 1st.
As some may know the NICS folks no longer do the instant checks.

So my gun is at the FFL til they call me.
Anybody else in the same boat?

It’s the feds who changed the policy; that said, it sucks, shouldn’t be that way, etc, so don’t want this to devolve into a discussion about the constitutionality of it, but I thought I’d see what other folks in other counties/cities here in WA experience since it’s your local PD or Sheriffs office responsible for the checks now.

Maybe get a temperature of the various LE offices.

I assume Seattle will foot drag, whereas places like the Spokane SO will fast track the process.

dogtown tom · Jul 4, 2019

EmGeeGeorge said:
As some may know the NICS folks no longer do the instant checks...

Dealers in WA no longer contact the FBI NICS directly, instead they contact a state point of contact (a state agency who then makes the same phone call your dealer was already doing)

It’s the feds who changed the policy

The Federal government has changed nothing with NICS. It's the same today as it was this time last year.
What HAS changed is your state law.

Highland Lofts · Jul 4, 2019

This is going to be a big problem for a lot of places. The burden is going to local law enforsment that are already burdened with short manpower now mix in they have no expierence with the back ground check system and probable don't have the proper software for background checks.

I do most of my gun transfers at pawn shops, there isn't anything in the BS for the nics check on pawned guns.
Good luck to any one buying any type of guns.

CoalTrain49 · Jul 4, 2019

dogtown tom said:
Dealers in WA no longer contact the FBI NICS directly, instead they contact a state point of contact (a state agency who then makes the same phone call your dealer was already doing)

The Federal government has changed nothing with NICS. It's the same today as it was this time last year.
What HAS changed is your state law.

You're wrong about the fed.

The fed did change their policy of running handgun background checks for dealers in WA. You could get a proceed from NICS if you had a CPL and transfer your firearm immediately. All handgun checks go thru state and local agencies now and the waiting period is 10 days.

I know because I did a handgun transfer on June 28th with NICS and a CPL. No waiting.

But I-1639 isn’t the only change coming. This year, the FBI — which manages the nationwide background-checks database — announced it would end its so-called “courtesy checks” that allow Washington’s conceal-carry license holders to potentially bring home a handgun the day they purchase it.

Those checks allow license holders to avoid the customary waiting period of up to 10 days that people buying handguns usually face. Lawmakers will have to pass legislation to address that and another change being directed by the FBI.

https://www.seattletimes.com/seattl...e-washingtons-gun-purchase-background-checks/

Theohazard · Jul 4, 2019

CoalTrain49 said:
You're wrong about the fed.

The fed did change their policy of running handgun background checks for dealers in WA.

No, he’s not wrong. Again, nothing whatsoever changed with the federal NICS process. What changed was WA state laws.

CoalTrain49 said:
You could get a proceed from NICS if you had a CPL and transfer your firearm immediately. All handgun checks go thru state and local agencies now and the waiting period is 10 days.

I know because I did a handgun transfer on June 28th with NICS and a CPL. No waiting.

WA state’s convoluted process of handgun waiting periods for non-CPL holders was an extra hurdle imposed on the state level, not the federal level. I have no idea what “federal changes” that Seattle Times article is referring to, because all the extra requirements in WA are imposed by the state, not the feds.

MEHavey · Jul 4, 2019

..... to include the waiver of medical record confidentiality.

Someone please elaborate on that.
(“It was a bright cold day in April, and the clocks were striking thirteen" comes to mind.)

CoalTrain49 · Jul 4, 2019

Theohazard said:
No, he’s not wrong. Again, nothing whatsoever changed with the federal NICS process. What changed was WA state laws.

WA state’s convoluted process of handgun waiting periods for non-CPL holders was an extra hurdle imposed on the state level, not the federal level. I have no idea what “federal changes” that Seattle Times article is referring to, because all the extra requirements in WA are imposed by the state, not the feds.

There's this letter from the WSP. Note the date. Oct. 2018. That was before I-1639 was sent to the voters here. The FBI/ATF pulled the plug on WA dealers before I-1639 became law.

https://www.northwestfirearms.com/attachments/20181024-154922-jpg.512220/

The state law was changed to reflect a decision by the FBI to stop doing the checks for CPL holders because WA is a POC for handguns.

The FBI recently conducted a review of full POC and partial POC background check processing to determine whether states are processing background checks appropriately. In 2018 the FBI notified Washington that it is not serving as a partial POC on all required firearms transfers. The FBI indicated that the NICS Section will stop processing NICS background checks for these transfers, but has delayed this change until the state revises its laws governing these transfers, or June 30, 2019, whichever occurs first.

http://lawfilesext.leg.wa.gov/biennium/2019-20/Pdf/Bill Reports/House/1465.E HBR APH 19.pdf

I'm not sure it matters but my dealer told me the same story.

CapnMac · Jul 4, 2019

Coaltrain is correct that the Federal NICS policy changed for POC States.
However, that is not what changed the WA state process, WA State law did that (I want to remember that the UBC law made a change for WA residents, but I could be wrong).

CoalTrain49 · Jul 4, 2019

It’s the feds who changed the policy; that said, it sucks, shouldn’t be that way, etc, so don’t want this to devolve into a discussion about the constitutionality of it, but I thought I’d see what other folks in other counties/cities here in WA experience since it’s your local PD or Sheriffs office responsible for the checks now.

I think they have 10 days. Past that dealers can transfer without a proceed.

I'm not sure it matters why the state law changed. We have to deal with it now.

I probably won't be a buyer of anything now because the process is just ridiculous. I don't mind the wait but I do mind the additional taxes and my medical records being reviewed. Not purchasing anymore is the only way I can avoid it.

Theohazard · Jul 4, 2019

CoalTrain49 said:
The state law was changed to reflect a decision by the FBI to stop doing the checks for CPL holders because WA is a POC for handguns.

So what you’re saying is that because WA was previously a direct NICS access state (the dealer accessed NICS directly for long gun, “other firearm” sales, and handguns for CPL holders, and then used a state NICS point-of-contact for handgun sales to people without CPLs) and also a NICS point-of-contact state, the FBI decided they had to be all-or-nothing and pulled dealers’ direct access to NICS?

If that’s the case, I see what the OP meant now by the feds being involved. However, I still see it as a state issue: It seems to me that the feds are simply reacting to state laws. After all, under federal law, any dealer in WA could contact NICS directly for any Title I firearm transfer and there’d be no waiting period. In fact, WA’s CPL qualifies under federal rules for a NICS exemption; anyone with a CPL could buy any Title I firearm without a NICS check. But state laws are what get in the way of that.

So is this a good summary of what happened? There have been no changes to federal law and no changes to NICS overall, but NICS recently decided to change its policy for WA specifically in regards to WA’s ridiculously convoluted system?

dogtown tom · Jul 5, 2019

CoalTrain49 said:
You're wrong about the fed.

The fed did change their policy of running handgun background checks for dealers in WA. You could get a proceed from NICS if you had a CPL and transfer your firearm immediately. All handgun checks go thru state and local agencies now and the waiting period is 10 days.

I know because I did a handgun transfer on June 28th with NICS and a CPL. No waiting.

https://www.seattletimes.com/seattl...e-washingtons-gun-purchase-background-checks/

A "courtesy check" is an abuse of the FBI NICS system.
(and that newspaper article is poorly written)
Nothing in NICS changed.
What changed was WA state law that required LE to run an additional FBI NICS check AFTER one had already been run by the dealer. FBI NICS basically said "sorry, once is enough, we ain't running multiple checks on the same transaction".

That isn't a change to NICS or Federal law. NICS won't let me keep running check after check on the same transaction either.

MEHavey · Jul 5, 2019

Waiver of confidentiality. (Effective until July 1, 2019.)
A signed application to purchase a pistol shall constitute a waiver of confidentiality and written
request that the health care authority, mental health institutions, and other health care facilities
release, to an inquiring court or law enforcement agency, information relevant to the applicant's
eligibility to purchase a pistol to an inquiring court or law enforcement agency.
[ 2018 c 201 § 6004; 1994 sp.s. c 7 § 411.]

I'm fascinated. What are the mechanics of this "request that the health care authority.... release... information relevant to the applicant's eligibility to purchase a pistol...." ?

Is there some central All-Points-Bulletin broadcast of your name to every one of what might thousands of medical entities?

.

CoalTrain49 · Jul 5, 2019

Theohazard said:
So what you’re saying is that because WA was previously a direct NICS access state (the dealer accessed NICS directly for long gun, “other firearm” sales, and handguns for CPL holders, and then used a state NICS point-of-contact for handgun sales to people without CPLs) and also a NICS point-of-contact state, the FBI decided they had to be all-or-nothing and pulled dealers’ direct access to NICS?

If that’s the case, I see what the OP meant now by the feds being involved. However, I still see it as a state issue: It seems to me that the feds are simply reacting to state laws. After all, under federal law, any dealer in WA could contact NICS directly for any Title I firearm transfer and there’d be no waiting period. In fact, WA’s CPL qualifies under federal rules for a NICS exemption; anyone with a CPL could buy any Title I firearm without a NICS check. But state laws are what get in the way of that.

So is this a good summary of what happened? There have been no changes to federal law and no changes to NICS overall, but NICS recently decided to change its policy for WA specifically in regards to WA’s ridiculously convoluted system?

I think that's basically correct. A policy change from the FBI on who gets to run the checks. State law was changed to come into compliance.

It really couldn't be more complicated than it was.

CoalTrain49 · Jul 5, 2019

A "courtesy check" is an abuse of the FBI NICS system.

Let's not get into who is abusing who here. That's a rabbit hole.

Old Dog · Jul 5, 2019

CoalTrain49 said:
There's this letter from the WSP. Note the date. Oct. 2018. That was before I-1639 was sent to the voters here. The FBI/ATF pulled the plug on WA dealers before I-1639 became law.

https://www.northwestfirearms.com/attachments/20181024-154922-jpg.512220/

The state law was changed to reflect a decision by the FBI to stop doing the checks for CPL holders because WA is a POC for handguns.

http://lawfilesext.leg.wa.gov/biennium/2019-20/Pdf/Bill Reports/House/1465.E HBR APH 19.pdf

I'm not sure it matters but my dealer told me the same story.

CoalTrain49 has it correct. This was coming before I-1639 was voted in. I suspect the WSP could have helped out on this (CPL holders still being allowed same-day transfer and pick-up of handguns), but chose not to. There are still other states in which CPL/CHL/CCW license holders are exempt from waiting periods.

As it happens, I had a gun on layaway, but work prevented me from picking it up prior to 1 July -- now I have to wait the 10 days. Sheesh.

Highland Lofts · Jul 5, 2019

So what is a POC state?

CoalTrain49 · Jul 5, 2019

Highland Lofts said:
So what is a POC state?

Point of Contact for a FFL dealer. NICS or state. Both if state is partial POC like WA. Used to be rifles and shotguns was NICS and handguns were state. Now I believe SA rifles are also state in WA.

From FBI

NICS Background Checks
The FFLs have the following three methods of performing background checks depending upon the state in which the FFL is conducting business:

1. In states where the state government has agreed to serve as the POC for the system, the FFLs contact the NICS through the state POC for all firearm transfers. The state POC conducts the NICS check and determines whether or not the transfer would violate state or federal law.

2. In states where the state government has declined to serve as a POC, the FFLs initiate a NICS background check by contacting the NCCC for all firearm transfers. The FBI conducts the NICS check and determines whether or not the transfer would violate state or federal law.

3. Finally, in states where the state government has agreed to serve as a POC for handgun purchases but not for long gun purchases, the FFLs contact the NICS through the designated state POC for handgun transfers and the NICS Section for long gun transfers.

Each state decides whether the FFLs in its state call a state POC or the FBI to initiate firearm background checks.

Ignition Override · Jul 5, 2019

No Federal law could have changed state laws here in TN.

If Feds had changed laws in every state, we would have seen a rebellious firestorm about this—Months Ago. No exaggeration one bit.

The US was created to avoid being like Canada , among many other things.

EmGeeGeorge · Jul 13, 2019

Did the paperwork the 1st. Got my proceed on the 8th.
So 4 business days because of the 4th holiday.

Washington States new NICS process and your direct experiences

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