458 Win Mag Garand...........Just for Kicks

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hps1

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OOOD: McCann Industries .458 Win Mag Garand

Posted July 6, 2015 in Companies, News, Rifles by Nathan S with 34 Comments
Tags: .458, Garand, M1, magnum, Win Mag


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Back in early 2000’s, McCann Industries (known for their M1 Garand Gas Trap Adjuster) manufactured an M1 Garand in .458 Winchester Magnum. Not made anymore after the passing of McCann’s primary gunsmith, the rifles are a fine example of ingenuity and practicality applied to big-game hunting.

At first, I flinched just thinking about it, but the few videos of it shooting shed some light on how this big-game cartridge is tamed. While the base rifle was identical, McCann added an aggressive muzzle brake and a mercury cylinder to the stock to absorb and deflect the recoil.

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Video: Firing the 458 WM Garand:


https://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/2015/07/06/oood-mccann-industries-458-win-mag-garand/

Regards,
hps
 
Tim, over at Shuff's Parkerizing, offers a .35 Whelen re-Bbl.

"And if you want something really unique, I can install one of my .35 Whelen barrels on your rifle for $395."


That, or a 9.3x62, would be plenty sweet for a woods/DGR rig.




GR

Now that is a good idea, converting a Garand to a 35 Whelen! The cartridge has the same diameter case head and operates at the same pressure, as long as the gas port and pressure curve can be tailored, that ought to be a dynamite rifle.

Converting a Garand to 458 Winchester is a bad idea. The case head is larger and the pressures are actually higher than the issue 30-06. Actually by the time you get to WW2 the average pressures for ball ammunition average in the low 40 kpsia with upper pressure excursions just under 50 kpsia. A 458 Win Mag is a 62 kpsia cartridge (Chuck Hawks says the MAP is 53,000 CUP) and with the greater case head diameter the cartridge is providing a bolt thrust thrust well above the service cartridge. This will crack a bolt lug in short order. I have no doubt the creator of the 458 Win Mag has not shot enough rounds to really stress this rifle, probably less than 100 rounds, certainty not the 6000 rounds these rifles were put through in Government endurance tests.
 
I'm with Slamfire, for the reasons he set forth. Garand receivers and bolts are very strong.....but they aren't designed for those kind of stresses. It's like a steady diet of near proof rounds.

If that were my rifle, I would tone things down a bit with reloads.
 
Now that is a good idea, converting a Garand to a 35 Whelen! The cartridge has the same diameter case head and operates at the same pressure, as long as the gas port and pressure curve can be tailored, that ought to be a dynamite rifle.
That is a MUCH better idea; this, without the 20 rd. mag in 35 Wh. would be a great little rifle IMO.
48205829986_e77808bcdf_z.jpg http://shuffsparkerizing.com/services/m1-garand/#gallery/widget-ngg-images-6/!

Converting a Garand to 458 Winchester is a bad idea. The case head is larger and the pressures are actually higher than the issue 30-06. With the greater case head diameter the cartridge is providing a bolt thrust thrust well above the service cartridge. This will crack a bolt lug in short order.
^^^ +1
Regards,
hps
 
I'm with Slamfire, for the reasons he set forth. Garand receivers and bolts are very strong.....but they aren't designed for those kind of stresses. It's like a steady diet of near proof rounds.

If that were my rifle, I would tone things down a bit with reloads.

I was recently talking to a gun designer friend of mine about the materials used in the M1 Garand. The steel, 8620 steel, was the absolute minimum grade of steel that could be satisfactorily used in this application. There were "better' alternatives, I think 4340 would have been a better alternative, and Watertown Arsenal was testing better alternatives in the early 1960's, because the failure rates of M14 receiver bolts and receivers was too high with 8620. The life of a bolt and receiver was stated to be on average less than or equal to 5000 rounds.

I did say, that you cannot fault the material specialists who decided to use 8620 as these rifles are military rifles and they were looking at the beginning of a very big bad war. The previous materials used had a high nickle content, which the US does not have, and still does not have, and has to be transported across oceans filled with Japanese and Nazi submarines, and sharks! 8620 was part of a new series of steels called at the time, National Emergency steels, or triple point steels. Previous nickle steels used 5 lbs of nickle for every 100 pound billet, but the NE steels were using about a half pound of nickle, a half pound of chrome, and a half pound of molybdenum per 100 pound billet. The difference between five pounds and a half pound really adds up over millions of tons of steel! The NE steels gave the same ultimate strengths with a 20% improved yield, over plain carbon steels. And yield is by far the most important characteristic of a steel. These NE steels heat treated consistently through the billet, vastly better than the plain carbon steels used in double heat treat 03's for example. But fatigue lifetimes were similar to carbon steels, or just a little better. Which is OK for a battle rifle.

People have forgot we were averaging 65000 causalities a month in WW2, about 20,000 of those dead, the rest in various states of disassembly. When you are looking at such losses of men and equipment, it is more important to make a lot of weapons cheap, than build a few very expensive, long lifetime weapons. The user won't wear the rifle out, he and the rifle will be in shards from artillery, mortar fire, well before the fatigue lifetime of the bolt lugs is approached. So a cheap, just meets requirements steel, such as 8620, is just fine in this application.

But that also means, that hot rod conversions of these actions are very inadvisable. Many have unreasonable expectations about "mil spec" items. You can argue whether the requirements were unrealistic, but once set, parts were not built to exceed requirements, they were built to meet requirements. Money was not spent on a whim, making Garands to the structural limits of belted magnums, for thrill seekers in the year 2017.
 
Going to necrothread this one for kicks.

I have a 35 Whelen Garand as a tanker and it shoots all bloody day long (no muzzle brake so it will take a bayonet as well). 200gr loads will fill entire en-bloc clip (8 rounds), but the heavier loads (250gr & up) require only 7 in the clip or jamming is encountered. That being said, 7 shots of 35 Whelen hot loaded 250 grain reloads is definitely a shoulder load and I have never had a jam after going to the 7 shot clip. Brass settles in the 3-4 o'clock position about 5 feet from the rifle. Hot loaded 30-06 rounds at 65K psi are not an issue in my other Garands with ONE caveat. I use adjustable gas plugs and adjust my gas to reliably shoot certain loads from my rifles.

Another thing to consider is an excerpt from Hatcher's Notes where they tested the Garand receiver and bolts to destruction.
From the Internet Archive so forgive any typoes as they are the artifacts of an imperfect scan.

One thing made evident by these tests is the fact that the weakest
feature of most modem military actions is in the cartridge case itself.
In the Springfield rifle the head of the cartridge case projects
out of the rear end of the chamber a distance of from .147 to .1485
inch; In other words, there is a space of well over an eighth of an
inch where the pressure is held in only bv the brass. This is the weak
point of the M 1903 Springfield, the M 1947 Enfield, the M 98
Mauser, and other high powered rifles usinq rimless cartridges.

When very high pressures are encountered, this brass wall either
spreads or blows out, and the gas under high pressure gets loose and
wrecks things. If the receiver is weak or brittle, it may be fractured;
if it is strong, then the extractor may be blown off, the magazine
well may be bulged, the stock may be splintered, and other damage
may be done.

In the design of the U. S. Rifle Cal. .30, Mr. Mr. Garand took
great pains to eliminate rhis source of weakness by arranging the
rear end of the chamber and the front of the bolt so tliat the metal
of the cartridge case is surrounded right down to the extractor
groove by the chamber walls.

In spite of the fact that there were over four million Garand M»
rifles made during World War II, there has never yet been a case
reported of a blown receiver or bolt on this rifle. It is true that as
a result of firing grenades, the rear wall where the bole is arrested
in its backward stroke has cracked out in a few instances, but there
has never at this writing, (June, 1947) been a case reported where
the receiver has failed at the front end where the locking is
accomplished.

In trying to determine the ultimate strength of the gun, Mr.
Garand built up progressively higher proof loads in increments
of 5000 pounds pressure, from the regular proof load of 70,000 lbs.

to the extreme figure of 120,000 lbs, per square inch. [em]

At this latter figure, cracked left lugs on the bolt began to be
encountered. A gun in which the bolt had the left lug cracked by
one of these excessive high pressure overloads was then fired an
endurance test of 5000 rounds of service ammunition, using the
cracked bole, which showed no further deterioration. The U. S. M1
Rifle thus has perhaps the strongest action of any military shoulder
rifle in existence at this time.
 
Never say never. Need me one of those. I read your comments. All excellent and sound. But the bragging rights alone are worth it. You can always load it down.
 
Indeed, loaded with .357 magnum bullets it's a nice easy 250 yard farm rifle. And hot loaded 140gr copper solids are absolute low recoil killers.
 
I’ve thought about the .35 Whelen conversion and the 9.3, but I always talk myself out of it. I still like the idea, but only if I get around to buying a second Garand.
 
Now that is a good idea, converting a Garand to a 35 Whelen! The cartridge has the same diameter case head and operates at the same pressure, as long as the gas port and pressure curve can be tailored, that ought to be a dynamite rifle.

Converting a Garand to 458 Winchester is a bad idea. The case head is larger and the pressures are actually higher than the issue 30-06. Actually by the time you get to WW2 the average pressures for ball ammunition average in the low 40 kpsia with upper pressure excursions just under 50 kpsia. A 458 Win Mag is a 62 kpsia cartridge (Chuck Hawks says the MAP is 53,000 CUP) and with the greater case head diameter the cartridge is providing a bolt thrust thrust well above the service cartridge. This will crack a bolt lug in short order. I have no doubt the creator of the 458 Win Mag has not shot enough rounds to really stress this rifle, probably less than 100 rounds, certainty not the 6000 rounds these rifles were put through in Government endurance tests.

Agreed.

I would not trust a re-worked Garand chambered in a belted magnum to hold together. Too much bolt thrust.
 

While I am not inclined to "fix something that is not broke" (30-06 in a Garand), for dangerous game, bigger is usually better. I'm sure safe op-rod port pressures could be obtained w/the 180 gr. TSX, especially if adjustable gas plug used. Probably true w/th 200 gr. as well. I have fired many a round of GI issued M72 Match (173 gr. @ 2640 fps) in both government issued and privately owned M1's w/no ill effects, as have many others.

  • Made in the U.S.A.
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Item Details

Brand Style: VOR-TX

Bullet Style: TTSX-BT

Bullet Weight (Grains): 180

Cartridge: 35 Whelen

Muzzle Energy: 3362

Muzzle Velocity (feet per second): 2900

Rounds: 20

Made in the USA

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Products shipped via Ground to Canada. All other international locations are shipped Air.

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Product temporarily out of stock. Click on the Back Order button to back order or click on the View Alternatives button to find an alternate if available.



Item Details

Brand Style: VOR-TX

Bullet Style: TTSX-BT

Bullet Weight (Grains): 200

Cartridge: 35 Whelen

Muzzle Energy: 3237

Muzzle Velocity (feet per second): 2700

Rounds: 20

Made in the USA
https://www.brownells.com/ammunition/rifle-ammo/barnes-vor-tx-35-whelen-ammo-prod125832.aspx

Regards,
hps
 
I always wondered if the .416 Taylor wouldn’t work well in a converted .338 Win Mag Browning BAR. I can imagine if it did it would be awesome for a brown bear rifle in Alaska or a PH rifle in Africa (in a place semi autos are legal... if there are any over there.)

As for the converted Garand? That may be a bit too much...

Stay safe.
 
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