Most of the pistol bullet diameters vs caliber designation has to do with the original bullets were healed bullets making the bullet diameter the diameter of the OD of the case. When mfg went to traditional bullets, bullet diameter became the diameter of the ID of the case but they never changed the caliber designation. I've found this common with most old rimfire 'garden rifles' in 32 cal. I have to be careful buying balls for my .44 BP revolver. If I buy .429 balls they drop right into the cylinder.
Why so many diameters?
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Archie
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Yes, but they didn't fare very well. One in particular I recall is the 9mm Ultra. It was an oddball sized variation of the 9mm Kurz (.380 ACP) so that ammunition could not be used in other guns if stolen, or the guns would not work with 'other' ammo, or both. (Too long ago.) It was intended (in the Walther PP Super) as a law enforcement weapon. Very few departments (in Europe as the primary market) bought them and functionally no individuals, anywhere.
Probably happened in rifles as well somewhere, sometime. Not with enough success to remember the attempt.
Jim Watson
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The 1970s 9mm Police is not the same as the 1930s 9mm Ultra, although the gunboards and even Fiocchi do not make a distinction.
I don't know the source of this drawing from the old Makarov site, but it shows clear differences in the 9mm family.
http://www.makarov.com/graphics/9mmcases.jpg
I think the German police looked at the 9mm Police/Walther PP Super and decided they would rather have full power and ammo compatibility with their SMGs, and started the selection process that gave us Walther P5, Sig-Sauer P6, and H&K P7.
I don't know the source of this drawing from the old Makarov site, but it shows clear differences in the 9mm family.
http://www.makarov.com/graphics/9mmcases.jpg
I think the German police looked at the 9mm Police/Walther PP Super and decided they would rather have full power and ammo compatibility with their SMGs, and started the selection process that gave us Walther P5, Sig-Sauer P6, and H&K P7.
Archie
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One source of different bore sizes and different bullet weights comes from what measurement system one uses. One well known European rifle uses bullets of 156 grains and a .264 groove diameter bore. Because when it was made, the specs were a 10.2 gram bullet and a 6.5mm bore (6.5 Swede). How about a pistol with a 14.9 gram bullet and a bore of 11.4? In the U. S., it's a .45 ACP.
Manufacturers sometimes call their 'new' products something to catch the customer's attention. The .244 Remington (which has some history) is essentially a .257 Roberts (based on the 7x57 Mauser case) necked down. The .243 Winchester is a necked down .308 Winchester. A brief look at the 7x57mm and .308 Win cases show them to be rather similar, especially if shortened. (It is a more complex story, actually, but it illustrates my point.
The .38 Special and the .357 Magnum are the same diameter (allowing for manufacturing tolerances). ".357" and "Magnum" sound cooler to some marketing genius.
Really no rhyme or reason to it.
Manufacturers sometimes call their 'new' products something to catch the customer's attention. The .244 Remington (which has some history) is essentially a .257 Roberts (based on the 7x57 Mauser case) necked down. The .243 Winchester is a necked down .308 Winchester. A brief look at the 7x57mm and .308 Win cases show them to be rather similar, especially if shortened. (It is a more complex story, actually, but it illustrates my point.
The .38 Special and the .357 Magnum are the same diameter (allowing for manufacturing tolerances). ".357" and "Magnum" sound cooler to some marketing genius.
Really no rhyme or reason to it.
sparkyv
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All you need is a .22lr, it can kill anything including Griz, we can do away with all the rest and save $$$$
View attachment 848507
Yeah, but the problem is that the 22LR uses (usually) a .224 caliber projectile!
Bwana John
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You ain't lived until you have played with heeled bullets where the differences between bore diameters, bullet diameters, case thickness, and heel diameter can all be different depending on rifle, bullet, and case manufacture.
I think every gun owner has played with heeled bullets aka .22 LR.
entropy
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There are bullets in similar or even exact diameters for rifle and pistol that technically could be used for both, and some are, BUT, bullet construction is key. You could probably seat a 200 gr. .452 Speer Flying Ashtray in a .458 Winchester case, but would you want to hunt elephant with it? Ok, extreme example, but it gets the point across.
Another example, in .45 cal. even; There are bullets made for .45 Colt that will seat in a .45 ACP, but leave virtually no room for the powder. 250-255 FP (or RN) is the starting point.I know some of you have probably loaded them, yes it can be done.....again just an example.
Another example, in .45 cal. even; There are bullets made for .45 Colt that will seat in a .45 ACP, but leave virtually no room for the powder. 250-255 FP (or RN) is the starting point.I know some of you have probably loaded them, yes it can be done.....again just an example.
.45 caliber rifles use .458 bullets. .45 caliber pistols use .451 caliber bullets. You're not going to get that Speer flying ashtray seated in a .458 Win Mag.
caribou
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Each and ever cartridge MUST have a different name, so you can find it, and shoot it in a gun properly chambered for it.
It must not be easy , but cartridges are named for land size, groove size, case size, rimmed or not, magnum, bottle neck, etc.ect.
It must not be easy , but cartridges are named for land size, groove size, case size, rimmed or not, magnum, bottle neck, etc.ect.
Bwana John
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Paper patch it to fit. It might rattle down the barrel, but I ain't gonna stand in front of it.
I saw a .270 Win shot through a 7mm Rem Mag that hit within 3" of the previously fired 7 mm group at 100 yards.
Anybody know what the barrel length is on a 5", 50 caliber gun?
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except .45 Colt which is .452 for post war, and .454 for prewar.....
Jim Watson
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By Navy convention, nearly 21 feet.
Bwana John
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It is easier to determine barrel length than chamber dimensions when trying to figure out what to feed it.
Bwana John
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And they are externally lubed also, the horror!
I guess reloading for a rimfire heeled cartridge would be even more fun than a centerfield one!
Anybody else shoot 22 shorts through their 22WRF as a kid? Works just fine but it's kinda hard on the cases!
Jim Watson
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There was the gunzine writer who had a sixgun chambered for .41 Long Colt with a .386" barrel for "inside lubricated" bullets. Why not? The factories don't load heel bullets any more
I've seen many reports of slugged barrels on Ruger revolvers coming in a .451.
TRX
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Some companies measured across lands.
Some measured across grooves.
Some rounded up.
Some rounded down.
Some were converted from different measurement systems.
Sometimes the name was changed to reduce the chance of using the wrong ammo.
Sometimes "just because"...
My favorite is the .35 Smith & Wesson, which was actually .312", which would make it a .32 by most pistol nomenclature.
Some measured across grooves.
Some rounded up.
Some rounded down.
Some were converted from different measurement systems.
Sometimes the name was changed to reduce the chance of using the wrong ammo.
Sometimes "just because"...
My favorite is the .35 Smith & Wesson, which was actually .312", which would make it a .32 by most pistol nomenclature.
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