Accuracy or Velocity. Choose.

D.B. Cooper said:

I would say a tail-on shot shouldn't be attempted with any caliber.

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I’m a staunch believer in this.

The sad part, when guys talk about taking the tail-on, “Texas heart shot,” they’re ignoring the fact the body is very long, and moving a lot, with a relatively small overlay of the actual vitals, while holding a few inches higher gives a more stable shot with almost no penetration required to hit the vitals. I’ll take the neck shot deer facing away if I really can’t get a better angle, but I won’t send one up the tailpipe ever again.

D.B. Cooper said:

Many of you have said change powders. I have a limited opportunity for that at this point. Season opens in 26 days, and I have a lot on my calendar between now and then. I have some 4895 on hand, which has worked extremely well in this rifle in the past, with much lighter bullets. So I can put together a batch for testing, but as far as buying a bunch of powders and doing a lot of range trips before opener, that's not in the cards right now.

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If you're staying with the 85, just grab the imr4451, it'll do what you're wanting, I'd say use it on the 90 gr bonded offerings too, for a 95 or 100 gr partition, h1000 will get the speed/accuracy you want

Varminterror said:

I’m a staunch believer in this.

The sad part, when guys talk about taking the tail-on, “Texas heart shot,” they’re ignoring the fact the body is very long, and moving a lot, with a relatively small overlay of the actual vitals, while holding a few inches higher gives a more stable shot with almost no penetration required to hit the vitals. I’ll take the neck shot deer facing away if I really can’t get a better angle, but I won’t send one up the tailpipe ever again.

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I completely agree shooting stuff in the butts a failure in the making, I think trying to hit the vitals is even less advisable.
I've shot more than one animal going away, and it's never the first shot I'll choose to take.
BUTT, if you have to make an rearend on shot, I think aiming for the base of the spine is a much better choice. You'll cause a lot of damage to good eating parts, but a bullet that hits the base of the spine or pelvis will stop an animal long enough for a second shot at the minimum.
I've never had an animal not stay down after their pelvis was shattered, including a huge bull that had already eaten 6 rounds, 5 of which were lethal.

I'll shoot them in the neck facing away.
Never shot one up the butt.

Never had to.

If I had a .45-70 or similar with big long heavy lead bullet, and that was the only shot.............

Big honking buck, head down, and about to slip away............I'd break him down.
Just don't get enough opps.

Dunno how my 200gr .35 rem would do.

Had a 140" buck come in during bow, stopped with vitals behind tree. 10 yards. Broadside w arse fully exposed.
70# bow, could have punched his hams, tried for femoral (even a non femoral hit.........through both rear "tires".......

proly would have worked).

Did not want to get into P&Y with a arse shot. Of course when he left he kept the trees in line.
Oh well.

Never saw him again.

Karma..........I'm due a lot of antler. Doubt I get the payback.

If I was gonna pop stuff past 300 I'd leave the .243 at home and grab a hot .25 cal.
Still thinking .257 WM..........in a Mark V.
A stainless BDL in the old style black synth tupperware, .25-06............would be tolerable
Buddy killed a lot of stuff running Hornady 120's in his.
Comfy rig.

IIRC my Savage was 1 in 10.
Was a half incher at 100 w factory ammo (100gr PSP).

D.B. Cooper said:

The only -06 I have is an M1 Garand.

No I have a 1-10 twist barre in my 243. Won't stabilize the 105/107 grain bullets.

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I see. Your in the same boat as me. My 240wby is 10 twist also. It does great with a 100 flat base and the 95 gr NBT.

Shoot the faster load. Still plenty of range, and accurate enough.

I’ve heard this “Texas heart shot” nonsense before but in 35 years of deer hunting I’ve never seen anyone do it or advocate doing it.

D.B. Cooper said:

Not in my caliber (243 Win.) However, I took a small (about 300 lbs) caribou 2 years ago with a plain jane Winchester Power-Point 100 grain, and, while the meat is in the freezer, I'd like to do it better next time. The whole point of copper solid projectiles is that they retain nearly 100% of their weight after impact, so 85 grains is 85 grains. I shot that caribou twice, no exit holes, and found NO projectiles. My only assumption is that they were so badly obliterated that the pieces fell out during processing without me noticing them. (Or, we ate them. Could go either way.)

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The only bullet I have ever recovered from a deer was a barnes from my 25-06. I shot a small doe quartering away at about a 45 degree angle and found the bullet under the far skin just in front of her shoulder. I've shot other bigger deer at the same angle and never recovered a bullet. In my opinion if you want to maximize penetration and weight retention use the heaviest bullet in the caliber and either a bonded core or partition to ensure it cannot come apart.

Varminterror said:

I’m a staunch believer in this.

The sad part, when guys talk about taking the tail-on, “Texas heart shot,” they’re ignoring the fact the body is very long, and moving a lot, with a relatively small overlay of the actual vitals, while holding a few inches higher gives a more stable shot with almost no penetration required to hit the vitals. I’ll take the neck shot deer facing away if I really can’t get a better angle, but I won’t send one up the tailpipe ever again.

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I've only ever done it once. It was last year on an 8 point buck with a 7.62x39 and a 125 grain accubond. my first shot I miss queued on him as he was at a trot and broke his front right humerus, missing the vitals. He ran on 3 legs and turned to go into the willows where I would not be able to see him anymore. Being as that he would not survive on 3 legs and I would never recover him either I chose to put one up the pipe as a last ditch chance. Surprisingly it had enough penetration to get to his heart and he dropped right there. It basically split the hams apart and there really wasn't any meat damage and no real mess to clean up. I still would highly advice against it unless you've already made a bad shot as I had.

@someguy2800 - I took a handful of tailpipe shots over a handful-ish of years when I was younger. We used to be able to take 9 deer per year in KS, and that was basically all of the meat I had in the spring for a handful of years. I hunted (and still do) some rather thick brush and wood with scrub brush which could conceal a downed heifer, let alone a deer if you didn’t see where they dropped. So if a deer ran, I’d shoot until they were down - and often, they turn and run straight away, presenting the tailpipe shot angle...

As you said - with the right bullet, right cartridge, and sufficient luck - while it might be rather nasty - the tailpipe shot does remarkably little meat damage. I found the Winchester/Nosler/CT 150 BST from the 30-06 to be a quick anchor - it would reach the heart and lungs in a hail of shrapnel. Field dressing could effectively be accomplished with a garden hose, everything from bowel to breastbone was jelly. I recovered and ate every deer I ever shot up the tail.

But, given the same shot today on a “running dead” deer, I’ll take the base-of-the-neck shot. A lot less to penetrate, less chance for deflection without incapacitation, and a lot less movement in the target. Which also has the secondary benefit of facilitating the same reliability of harvest while using a more “whitetail efficient” cartridge like 243win or 6.5 Grendel.

D.B. Cooper said:

...I would say a tail-on shot shouldn't be attempted with any caliber. However, a friend of mine shot a white tail deer tail-on as it was running away. The bullet went through and exited the chest. Flipped the deer over frontward. It never moved again. I'm sure that's an exception and not the rule...

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Called a Texas Heart-shot for a reason.

It's generally not a choice in a lot of areas. The deer sit still, hidden in the brush, until you see them bounding away like jackrabbits.

One of the reasons all my .270 loads are stout, high SD 150 gr., or 140 gr. TSX.

As well as big hogs, they are able the smash their way to the works on whitetail.




GR

Accuracy trumps speed every time. As the adage goes you cant miss fast enough.

I've never hunted caribou, but am I the only person who questions the .243 Win being used at 300-400 yards on them? It's flat enough, but I don't recommend people shooting deer beyond about 250 yards, for a quick, humane kill on deer that are usually about 160 pounds. Yes, there are many deer in Maine that weigh over 250 lbs, but it's unlikely that we'd encounter one in most places here.

So Caribou may often weigh about 300 lbs or more. Is that correct? Next question is just how easy they may be to kill, compared to deer, caribou, or other game. Is the .243 considered at least average killing power to use for caribou?

"*Caribou
Minimum Caliber
.25/06, .260 Rem., 7mm/08 Rem. Recommended
.270 Win., .280 Rem., .308 Win., .30/06, any of the 7mm or .300 magnums Jim's Favorite
7x57 and .280 Rem.Outdoor Life Online Editor"

Your results may vary. JP

Picher said:

I've never hunted caribou, but am I the only person who questions the .243 Win being used at 300-400 yards on them? It's flat enough, but I don't recommend people shooting deer beyond about 250 yards, for a quick, humane kill on deer that are usually about 160 pounds. Yes, there are many deer in Maine that weigh over 250 lbs, but it's unlikely that we'd encounter one in most places here.

So Caribou may often weigh about 300 lbs or more. Is that correct? Next question is just how easy they may be to kill, compared to deer, caribou, or other game. Is the .243 considered at least average killing power to use for caribou?

"*Caribou
Minimum Caliber
.25/06, .260 Rem., 7mm/08 Rem. Recommended
.270 Win., .280 Rem., .308 Win., .30/06, any of the 7mm or .300 magnums Jim's Favorite
7x57 and .280 Rem.Outdoor Life Online Editor"

Your results may vary. JP

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I personally dislike the 243 even on deer. It lacks the extreme velocity. It also doesn't have the bullet weight or diameter of larger cartridges.
But it's what he has. It will work with the right bullet for the job. As long as he puts it in the right spot.

D.B. Cooper said:

It is what I have. I've had it a long time, and I shoot it quite well. But that's not really an excuse. I just dropped $420 on a powder measure and scale; I could have easily bought a Savage Axis in 30-06 for somewhere near that price.

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Or a Mossberg Patriot... w/ the 3-9 Vortex scope.






GR

43.2 @ 2,975 I should think.

D.B. Cooper said:

It is what I have. I've had it a long time, and I shoot it quite well. But that's not really an excuse. I just dropped $420 on a powder measure and scale; I could have easily bought a Savage Axis in 30-06 for somewhere near that price.

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That's the point I was trying to make. For 6 years the only deer rifle I had was an SKS. Even though it wasn't the best option, I made it work.

Sorry I am late to the party. From your O.P. questions I don’t think 1 MOA is a deal breaker as compared to 1/2 MOA for field shooting. I switched from 30-06 to .243 for whitetail deer and it has done very well. My barrel is a 1-9 twist and I shoot Hornady American Whitrtail 95 grain out of it. It does quite well. Yours being a 1-10 twist I wouldn’t go heavier than 95 grain. Never had a problem with accuracy. If 4895 has done well for you in the past I would go with that. Whatever you feel like you have the most confidence in. I agree that you don’t want to have to work up a load so close to your hunting trip.

Bfh_auto said:

I personally dislike the 243 even on deer. It lacks the extreme velocity. It also doesn't have the bullet weight or diameter of larger cartridges. But it's what he has. It will work with the right bullet for the job. As long as he puts it in the right spot.

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You have obviously not seen the deer down here. They often get mistaken for small to medium sized dogs, they barely rate a .22lr. Now the wild boar down here are another matter, and lets not forget the python.

Just to be clear, I was not and NEVER would advocate for a tail on shot. Besides the very small margin of error on hitting vital organs, or the nasty, tainted meat or the fact that its frequently a slow, cruel death, most traditional cup and core bullets, especially a .243 cal is not likely to get adequate penetration to quickly and cleanly kill the animal.
I was just saying that unless he was specifically looking for a bullet that was capable of getting adequate penetration on tail on shots, he would be better off with a bullet that is not so tough especially in a 243, and especially at 300 yards. I'm not sure that I would feel comfortable shooting a whitetail doe at 300 yards with my 243 win. I prefer to have a little more energy at that range. Something like prairie dogs or groundhogs or something like that I'd feel differently but with Whitetail sized game and bigger, I wouldn't want to be very far.