Bent Cylinder Pin

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72coupe

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I blued my Lyman 1858 Remington kit gun about 2 months ago. I worked on it for several weeks on and off to get it smooth enough for a good finish. After I finished it I took it to the range and was very pleased with as it now shoots to point of aim.

Well last week I took it out of the safe to check on it to find that it had a bad case of rust and was seized up. I had a very hard time getting the cylinder pin out. I couldn't pull it out by hand so I used a punch and hammer to remove it.

When I got it out the forward end was bent about 20 degrees. I have been trying to massage back into shape without much luck.

I have been searching for a new one without much luck. Any suggestions.
 
For as many chime in after this, with their own tricks to cleaning BP, there will BE as many versions.. In the end it involves hot water and maybe a little dish soap...

Know this though... You CAN NOT put a black powder firearm away.. ever.. without cleaning it. This aint smokeless...

Now.. Ill leave all that to my fellows here and say that I am fairly sure "Layman" remingtons where made by Uberti. At least for the most part.. and as far as I know, always. So if you MUST replace, Uberti parts should fit... A layman uberti will probably be somewhat old however, and exact fit with a new part may not be the case... Still, even if it needs a little hand fitting thats still the one ya want.

In the off chance Im wrong about all layman remmis being made by uberti, then it would have been made by ASM or ASP... Pretty sure that it was never made by Pietta. Uberti would still be a closer fit for either of them as well...
 
When I got it, it was in a Lyman box and I am pretty sure it was made by Armi San Marco as it has their logo under the loading lever. I did clean it with hot water but it has been very humid here and maybe I didn't get dry enough before I put it away. Thanks for the reply.
 
I know first hand that some Lyman 1858's were manufactured by Uberti and some were manufactured by Armi San Paolo (I have several of both)
It also doesn't surprise me that the OP's sounds like it was manufactured by Armi San Marco.
 
I have had this revolver for more than 40 years and I just took a new look at the mark under the barrel. It is indistinct but I think it is DGG in a circle making it an Armi San Paolo. The only marking that is clear enough to read on the barrel is 476. It has a serial number on the bottom of the grip frame. Other than those 3 marks there are no other marks on it. When I was polishing the barrel some very faint lettering appeared on the right side of the barrel but all of that polished off.

So I guess I am looking for a DGG cylinder pin.

I just ordered one from Dixie Gun Works. I don't know if it will fit but if it doesn't I have power tools.
 
Last edited:
You should be able to straighten the pin, you bent it, so unbend it. I’ve learned the hard way on both Ruger Old Armies and Rogers and Spencer’s to make sure the base pin is latched before applying force to the loading lever to load a ball.
Clamping the pin into a vise close to the bend and gentle tapping with a hammer until it was straight.
 
It is bent right at the end with the large end on it. I have beat it unmercifully with no result and I am good at straightening iron rods.

I thought the thing must be quite soft when I bent it but it doesn't seem that soft while trying to straighten it.
 
72coupe said:
It is bent right at the end with the large end on it. I have beat it unmercifully with no result and I am good at straightening iron rods.

I thought the thing must be quite soft when I bent it but it doesn't seem that soft while trying to straighten it.
Click to expand...

You can experiment but I really doubt that you can ever restraighten to the level that it fits within the receiver and cylinder without having to use a hammer to reinstall. These parts should be cheap and available, you should plan on a finding a source of supply.

After washing my revolver parts off in hot soapy water, I shake as much water off, and stick the clean metal parts in a toaster oven set on low. Put an oven thermometer in with the parts, and remove when everything stabilizes at 200 F or so. Take the parts out, wait to cool, and spray with WD40, outside! This will remove all moisture and coat the surface with silicone, which is what is basically left on the surface after the light oil from WD40 evaporates.
 
After doing some lapping refurbishing on 2 rifle barrels I found that after bluing them it took good cleaning and steel wool polishing every couple of days over close to 1 1/2 - 2 weeks before they stopped producing a brown residue even after mopping with oil. Don't really know why. As far as cylinder pins one should grease them really well and keep them that way. As slamfire says, wd40 inside out for storage.
Being humid for sure doesn't help but demands a max effort in preservation.
I pick up every dry pack I can get my hands on and put them in my safes. You can put rice in an open jar to help with humidity. Just make sure to check on it and change out the rice when it shows signs of being soaked.
As far as the pin. If it won't straighten by hammer you might try clamping down on it with the pin layed across a shimed gap and tighten the clamp pressure every day over a few days.
 
Thanks for the replies. I am hoping the pin I ordered from Dixie will be a close fit.

I ordered a 1000 rounds of Norma 223 the day after I ordered the pin and the ammo was delivered today but no pin.
 
I have nothing to add about the pin, but as to cleaning, I've been using John Fuhring's (geojohn.org) method with no problems. No water, just oil. Currently using jojoba oil. Others have recommended olive or other oils. I started out using whale oil, which I bought years ago when it was still legal, but used up what little I had left. I live in north Alabama and it has been extra humid here this year. No rust problems so far. Just remember to dry out the chambers and nipples before loading.
 
Don't beat the metal with a hammer.

I'd find metal round stock or something that can be bored out so that it will slip over the rod snugly

Then put the cylinder pin in a vise with padded jaws. Slip the round stock over to where the bend is and apply pressure to straighten it. You can check it with a straight edge to check your results.
 
72Coupe, I'm assuming you do oil the guns after cleaning in warm soapy water. It sounds like you simply forgot to oil the arbor pin and center bore of the cylinder. Something I suspect you've kicked yourself over a lot given the resulting troubles. Or if you did oil it and it rusted anyway I'm sort of thinking that there's something to what skeeterfogger posted about new bluing jobs tending to want to rust. Proper hot salt or rust bluing after all being a form of special rusting.

Generally if rinsed well in hot water and then dried and oiled I've not had any trouble with the cold blue options.

Just glad to read that it sounds like you have the gun back into shooting condition.

I don't know about jojoba oil but vegetable and nut based oils tend to gum up and form a varnish like film after some weeks. Or if left out in the heat and sun the temperature and UV kicks off the polymerization process and they go gummy rapidly and varnish like after a week. I use Canola cooking oil for day to day use after giving the gun a quick cleaning. But I always clean well and finish up with Ballistol for longer term storage. Anyway, bottom line is that I would suggest that any plant based oil be applied in a thin layer to a surface which can then be set out in the sun and checked day to day for signs of going sticky and gummy or hardening up to a varnish like film before I would feel right about using it for long term use on one of my BP guns.

Another product which I played with a bit and which SEEMS compatible with BP fouling is Fluid Film. It's billed as a protectant. But it also does a darn good job as a lubricant. The Ballistol is cheaper though so I didn't carry on with deeper and longer term testing.
 
BC I have an air compressor and blow dry all my black powder stuff after cleaning. I am pretty sure I used Remoil before putting it away. But something happened. I am not sure what it might have been.

I have never had much confidence in Remoil, now even less.
 
72coupe said:
BC I have an air compressor and blow dry all my black powder stuff after cleaning. I am pretty sure I used Remoil before putting it away. But something happened. I am not sure what it might have been.

I have never had much confidence in Remoil, now even less.
Click to expand...

Get you some Ballistol. IMO its a must for black powder. Clensoil is really good stuff too.
 
whughett said:
You should be able to straighten the pin, you bent it, so unbend it. I’ve learned the hard way on both Ruger Old Armies and Rogers and Spencer’s to make sure the base pin is latched before applying force to the loading lever to load a ball.
Clamping the pin into a vise close to the bend and gentle tapping with a hammer until it was straight.
Click to expand...
Did the same thing with my ROA, worked great, even so I had already gotten a replacement pin from Ebay for more than I paid for the gun originally.. There's many people who've done this to their ROA's due to using the loading leaver retainer to hold the cylinder pin in place to quick change cylinders while shooting without turning the retaining screw, works great till you forget and drop the lever which bends at the retainer cutout.
 
Cowhide Cliff said:
Get you some Ballistol. IMO its a must for black powder. Clensoil is really good stuff too.
Click to expand...
I 2nd the Ballistol, a real godsend for B/P revolvers, great rust preventative and B/P friendly! A little in the rinse water and the metal is coated and will prevent rust in Louisiana and Florida summers!
 
72coupe said:
Thanks for the replies. I am hoping the pin I ordered from Dixie will be a close fit.

I ordered a 1000 rounds of Norma 223 the day after I ordered the pin and the ammo was delivered today but no pin.
Click to expand...

In case some folks didn't know, Jack First Gun Parts sells replacement ROA base pins, rammers and several other parts. --->>> https://jack-first-gun-parts.myshopify.com
 
Lot of luck with finding a pin from Uberti, we could not locate one for a friend who lost his. Have a good machinest make one....
 
BCRider said:
72Coupe, I'm assuming you do oil the guns after cleaning in warm soapy water. It sounds like you simply forgot to oil the arbor pin and center bore of the cylinder. Something I suspect you've kicked yourself over a lot given the resulting troubles. Or if you did oil it and it rusted anyway I'm sort of thinking that there's something to what skeeterfogger posted about new bluing jobs tending to want to rust. Proper hot salt or rust bluing after all being a form of special rusting.

Generally if rinsed well in hot water and then dried and oiled I've not had any trouble with the cold blue options.

Just glad to read that it sounds like you have the gun back into shooting condition.

I don't know about jojoba oil but vegetable and nut based oils tend to gum up and form a varnish like film after some weeks. Or if left out in the heat and sun the temperature and UV kicks off the polymerization process and they go gummy rapidly and varnish like after a week. I use Canola cooking oil for day to day use after giving the gun a quick cleaning. But I always clean well and finish up with Ballistol for longer term storage. Anyway, bottom line is that I would suggest that any plant based oil be applied in a thin layer to a surface which can then be set out in the sun and checked day to day for signs of going sticky and gummy or hardening up to a varnish like film before I would feel right about using it for long term use on one of my BP guns.

Another product which I played with a bit and which SEEMS compatible with BP fouling is Fluid Film. It's billed as a protectant. But it also does a darn good job as a lubricant. The Ballistol is cheaper though so I didn't carry on with deeper and longer term testing.
Click to expand...
I've been using Ballistol for yrs. and have never had a problem, it leaves a protective film even when mixed as directed with water, after cleaning just dip and wipe off and it's good for storage.
 
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