(Blank) Violence

P5 Guy said:

There is no way with any law enforcement system I would want to live with can these people be prevented from causing mayhem.

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There was an article in years ago in Psychology Today on this subject. Point in that article was the firearm owning public had no problem with anything meaningful that would was stop firearm related violence. There was no such thing. Also, that to enforce confiscation would cost as much to enforce as all the other laws. Another question: What would you do with this monster law enforcement agency once the guns were taken up?

The question remains how to disarm people who are at risk of harming themselves or others. For example, take kids to schools. I see lurking in the nearby woods an armed individual with a rifle. He has a spotter with binoculars. One is wearing camo and the other a black duster with hoodie. How would you deal with this situation. Would you return firearms to these people? How do you explain this situation to others.

Building an unescapable box?
Psychology Today? How far over the left field fence can a publisher get? I think they are the limit.
There is no way that I'd want law enforcement to have predictive powers to incarcerate people for what they MIGHT be capable of.

Sounds like Minority Report - let's arrest you before you commit the crime

Mowgli Terry said:

How would you answer the question? How do you disarm these people?

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The answer is long term attrition.

Politicians come and go. Political parties and ideology, however, stays around forever.

This won't happen over night...it'll happen over decades and generations.

And, in case people haven't had the light of realization come one in their heads yet, it has already been going on for decades and generations.

Examples?

Jim Crow laws dealing with this started immediately following the end of the Civil War in 1864.

National Firearms Act in 1934. Registration of Title II weapons, and taxes for them.

Federal Firearms Act in 1938. FFL requirement, for one.

Omnibus Crime Control and Safe Streets Act, 1968. Prohibited interstate trade in handguns and made the minimum age limit for buying handguns 21.

Firearms Owner Protection Act in 1986. WAIT! This PROTECTS firearms owners, right? Aaaaand prohibits the sale of automatic weapons to citizens which were manufactured after the passage of the law.

Federal Assault Weapons ban, 1994 to 2004.

Law Enforcement Officer's Safety Act, 2004. Grants special privileges to law enforcement officers (read: agents of the State) allowing them to carry concealed weapons in nearly every jurisdiction in the country.

Get the picture? At least a century and a half of more and more restrictive gun laws with no end in sight.

P5 Guy said:

Building an unescapable box?
Psychology Today? How far over the left field fence can a publisher get? I think they are the limit.
There is no way that I'd want law enforcement to have predictive powers to incarcerate people for what they MIGHT be capable of.

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Actually, we already have those powers in place through specific "malum prohibitum" laws.

"Malum prohibitum" means something is illegal ONLY because there is a law which says it's illegal. Not because the act is, in and of itself, "bad". (Malum in se.)

"Murder" is considered "malum in se" because the act of murder is itself is universally considered bad, harmful, morally wrong, etc.

Possessing lock picking tools in certain jurisdictions (like the state of Virgina, for example) is an example of something illegal under "malum prohibitum". Merely possession lock picking tools is considered proof of intent to commit a crime, regardless of whether or not any actual crime is either planned or committed.

Look up state laws on carrying knives.

Look up state and federal laws on firearms.

There are LOTS of laws on the books which are this way. And yes...law enforcement does, in fact, incarcerate people every day because of them.

To be fair, not all malum prohibitum laws are necessarily unjust, unfair, or otherwise "bad". Laws in this country which say, for example, driving on the left side of the road is illegal are "malum prohibitum". It's illegal not because the act of driving on the left side of the road is inherently "bad", but because driving regulations are required for the safe operation of motorized vehicles in society.

I'm still scratching my noggin over the puzzle of why no one 'in charge' seems to be curious about why this all started only about 20 years ago (Texas shooter Whitman notwithstanding). The AR-15 has been available commercially for way longer than that, so it isn't like the AR bursting on the scene somehow triggered all these maniacs. Until the root cause can be determined little is going to be accomplished toward eliminating the problem.

We still have not answered the question about giving firearms back to the pair found in the bushes scoping out the school.. Fine them fifty bucks making them promise never to do this again? How about an ankle bracelet? See their PO monthly with periodic drug screens. At that time return firearms?

The Psychology Today article was anything but anti-gun. This was many years ago but a message was that firearm owners were not monsters.

Is there a chance that we have had some degree of mass killing all along. All this had to do about a unified way of keeping records and disseminating information. Caleb Carr wrote a couple of pretty mystery books along similar lines.

-They don't want to talk about the worst school massacre in US history. No guns involved.

FlSwampRat said:

Until the root cause can be determined little is going to be accomplished toward eliminating the problem.

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Check out "Adjustment Disorders" . These are disorders brought on by stressors of some sort with poor impulse control etc. Check out the worst school massacre in #58. This is no diagnosis but a hint at some of the things that can send people over the edge. There is such a thing as a forensic autopsy that can be used to identify stressors etc.

Everything is a disorder. I heard being concerned about climate change was a new disorder added to the list recently, and it made me think of some documentary I saw on PBS of a guy so concerned about climate change he was out protesting, chaining himself in front of tankers, etc because he said he would feel guilty if he didnt do something when it was possible.
Yet he was a professional in his field that studied that exact thing before he went crazy with his disorder. His prior professional work was studying climate change with the associated credentials and education. So perhaps they were overly concerned, but they were also logical in their concern.
Certainly the ability to categorize people to try and understand or assist was once a useful pursuit but is turned more into a method of control. Today I would venture the majority and not the minority if they sought professional help would have various mental disorders to diagnos and need to employ professionals to treat for life, with periodic updates and tracking of their progress?
A sort of permanent mental parole that sustains a profession?
The mental health system has been hijacked by the court system and the medical records are now also regularly traded back and forth between various entities.
I see a lot of it as almost like a court system that does not require a jury trial to convict, when used by the government.
Getting around some of the checks and balances which are already so hard to maintain in the court system.

One of the biggest issues and when a lot of problems started is when women all started to have careers and society went from a single income required to support a household to both parents having to work in most homes.
The families with nurturing loving mothers tended to have a rock solid foundation that helped the rest of the household get through the stresses away from home. No longer.
Then the attempt to remedy this by diagnosing children with mental issues in order to give them something to treat, a prerequisite to give them powerful prescriptions which often are something that improves anyone like stimulants as if it is curing something (with serious side effects and potential changes in a developing body), which is often the intitial goal of getting a diagnosis to begin with.
Why did these kids suddenly have disorders that prior generations did much better without needing treatment for on any type of wide scale? Certainly our genetics didn't just get that much worse, and so the issue must instead be something in society increasing this issue and or a combination of diagnosing a lot of things as abnormal that was not done before.

Once they got something to treat giving powerful medications, while offloading child care to people that do not really love or help the child grow, but rather just make sure they get basic needs taken care of.
Well a much larger percent of the population gets lost when the schools and the government do most of the raising, and the parents just get to pay for it. Then they grow into adults that are damaged and raise more damaged people, all while having less precious time to interact than in prior generations to fix things.
I would say the main issues is families are less families than in prior times, and even during offtime the past times of many are individual things related to technology that are not done together or merely involve observing together rather than interacting.
Mothers use to fix a lot of the issues that are no longer fixed. There was always good and bad mothers some more attentive, others selfish, but now most women are not even given the time to have the option to be a mother that build up their children with love and support and will be more invested than any professional anyone can hire.
But the government loves twice the workforce, more taxes, and a bigger economy and has put a lot of effort in making women feel like losers if they do not pursue a career, and since most households have women work it means two incomes became the standard to match for basic cost of living.
Well good women used to be the center of a family, but with that degraded into a simpleton's role now we get what the government raises instead.

To the question of why its happening the above is a good summation.

Folks blame mass shootings on various and sundry stuff. IMO the vast majority of mass shootings can be attributed to:

1. Copycat syndrome.

2. Boys growing up without fathers in the home.

Referring to the problem as "gun violence" implies that without guns, the violence wouldn't exist. That simply isn't true.

Are we going to give the two people arrested on the school grounds with firearms their firearms back. Remember you had the shooter with the rifle and a spotter with binoculars. It's your decision. What would you do? What does this have to do with violence in our national community? Have we been hijacked?

When you do an mental health evaluation it's necessary to document. The guide is the DSM which is the Diagnostical and Statistical Manual of the American Psychiatric Association. Take a look at this work. It gives criteria for disorders. This allows a clinician to assess the situation and construct the diagnosis so that the terms are understandable and uniform. Check it out. The DSM is updated periodically. Chronic disorders must be treated over time. by definition..

If you think all the dysfunctional stuff we are seeing now started recently you are missing the mark.

toivo said:

Referring to the problem as "gun violence" implies that without guns, the violence wouldn't exist. That simply isn't true.

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I have been in meetings where the anti-gun folks said that doing away with guns would end suicide.

Yes give them back their rifle and binoculars.

Our culture is rapidly divorcing itself from all standards of objective morality, the concept of truth, and any religious oriented standards of conduct.

Education is sold as the answer to all.
Any moral deficiency is understood as the result of victimization or disability (and offered special status/protection)

Scapegoats are quickly hatched and blamed for any failure of this "new world order" and guns are the favorite "pet" cause of all that is wrong in the world.

Heaven forbid we THINK about what's changed in society in the last 20 years to come up with a reason for the social ills of today.