Remington Revolving Carbine

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Range day with the carbine. A exercise in futility. Gave up after 24 rounds.

Ordered a set of Treso Ampco replacement nipples, from the Possibles Shop. Fingers crossed.
 
End of thread. New nipples arrived , installed and all chambers fired on the first hammer drop. Good thing, both VTI and Taylor’s are out of stock for mainspring replacement with Taylor’s reporting a 4 to 6 week delay, the carbine would have hung on the wall for the summer.

Got one set , AMPCO, M5.5x9 thread, from the Possibles Shop, two cylinders with the gun so I’ll need to order another set at $30 a set plus shipping. $70 in replacement parts for a gun costing over $500 new.

Bad, Uberti, Bad.

All the , replace the nipples, advise good, thanks all.
 
Even loose caps are having to be struck twice? That's a strong indication of either weak spring or too much nipple/hammer gap, the card trick should tell if that's the case. I've got a ROA with a very light mainspring and with Slixshot nipples I still get 100% firing on the 1st strike. Good luck and keep us informed, you also might mention the problem to Uberti, they might have some advice, doesn't hurt to ask. I had a Pieta pocket Remington missing a front sight and contacted the home office in Italy and they sent a new front sight, I had told them I bought it used too.
 
End of thread. New nipples arrived , installed and all chambers fired on the first hammer drop. Good thing, both VTI and Taylor’s are out of stock for mainspring replacement with Taylor’s reporting a 4 to 6 week delay, the carbine would have hung on the wall for the summer.

Got one set , AMPCO, M5.5x9 thread, from the Possibles Shop, two cylinders with the gun so I’ll need to order another set at $30 a set plus shipping. $70 in replacement parts for a gun costing over $500 new.

Bad, Uberti, Bad.

All the , replace the nipples, advise good, thanks all.
Glad to hear problem solved, have fun shooting the carbine!!
 
I don't shoot mine any more,,,
I got tired of the massive clean-up after any black powder.

But, it sure was a fine little shooter for a while.

I'll tell you how long I've had mine,,,
I paid $199.95 for it new from Cabela's.

Aarond

.
If you still have it, why don't you get a conversion cylinder and shoot modern powder with cowboy loads, I do that with my ROA's when I don't want to spend the day cleaning, just clean like any modern gun and go, also no dire rush to clean.
 
End of thread. New nipples arrived , installed and all chambers fired on the first hammer drop. Good thing, both VTI and Taylor’s are out of stock for mainspring replacement with Taylor’s reporting a 4 to 6 week delay, the carbine would have hung on the wall for the summer.

Got one set , AMPCO, M5.5x9 thread, from the Possibles Shop, two cylinders with the gun so I’ll need to order another set at $30 a set plus shipping. $70 in replacement parts for a gun costing over $500 new.

Bad, Uberti, Bad.

All the , replace the nipples, advise good, thanks all.

Since the factory nipples seem to be useless, I wonder if you can experiment with dressing them to see if there's anything that you can do to get them to work.
Perhaps experiment with the taper so that caps will fit better, or make a sharper lip on the edge of the cone.
 
Since the factory nipples seem to be useless, I wonder if you can experiment with dressing them to see if there's anything that you can do to get them to work.
Perhaps experiment with the taper so that caps will fit better, or make a sharper lip on the edge of the cone.
With the Remington caps a second hammer fall would result in a neat little disc of compound cut from the cap and left in the nipple, like the nipple was functioning as a plug cutter. For now I’ve labeled and bagged the nipples. I do have an extra 1851 cylinder with no nipples but the threaded holes need to be dressed with a thread chaser, I think they are also the M5.5x.9 MM
 
If you still have it, why don't you get a conversion cylinder and shoot modern powder with cowboy loads, I do that with my ROA's when I don't want to spend the day cleaning, just clean like any modern gun and go, also no dire rush to clean.

I do that with R&S, 1860 Army and one of the ROA’s, 250 grain round nose flat point bullet and 5.4 grains of Trail Boss or a 200 grain bullet of the same design with 5.9 grains of Trail boss. Snappy target rounds around 800 FPS (Data Lyman 49th Manual. ) I cast bullets and find the Lee liquid Alox works just fine before and after pushing the bullets thru their sizer.

The carbine will get a conversion cylinder also, hopefully next year.
 
Well after about $60 in new nipples the carbine will fire 10 times out of 12. The photo is a fifty yard target off a rest. I’m no rifleman but that sadness ain’t all me. Guess I’m going to spend a few hours trying bullet and powder loads. If I can’t improve with it guess I’ll have a pretty little wall ornament. It’s a long summer yet though. The load was Lee 1.9 dipper (30.3 grains by their slide rule) a 454 ball and 1/8 lubed wad. Remington #11 caps, it won’t fire CCI 11s’ Wednesday I’ll start dropping the powder charge grain by grain.
 

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I would like to bring up what for some reason seems to be avoided here. I would slug the barrel with a slightly oversized lead ball and afterwards see if that lead ball falls into the cylinder holes or fits loosely.


(SORRY MY MISTAKE THE FOLLOWING WAS NOT TRUE "If it does you do not even have to measure to know that your cylinder holes are not wide enough for the bore." WRONG WRONG WRONG AM I GETTING SENILE ???)

Most likely it's the extra 9 hours of overtime at work taking the edge off my thinking. Again sorry.

I MEANT TO SAY THE BALL SHOULD FIT INTO THE CHAMBERS AFTER BEING SLUGGED THROUGH THE BORE AND A BALL AFTER BEING PRESSED INTO THE CYLINDER SHOULD NOT FALL THROUGH THE BARREL/BORE

This is unfortunately a common problem with the Italian imports. Good news is the barrels are usually great and accuracy improves when the cylinders are BORED OUT to proper size. Im am not saying that is the problem but it's a good place to start looking.

I don't see how a carbine with a barrel that long is not more accurate.
 
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There are several things to look at here, and feel free to weigh in. Is it shaving lead when you seat the ball? This can cause the ball to rotate off center affecting accuracy. Are all the chamber mouths the same diameter? I had an 1858 Remington that had 1 chamber that was a different diameter than the other 5, it constantly threw a flyer high and left. The others would group very well. Are the balls you're shooting swaged or as cast? It may help to weigh a few of them and see how much difference the weights are. Worth a try.
 
I would like to bring up what for some reason seems to be avoided here. I would slug the barrel with a slightly oversized lead ball and afterwards see if that lead ball falls into the cylinder holes or fits loosely. If it does you do not even have to measure to know that your cylinder holes are not wide enough for the bore. This is unfortunately a common problem with the Italian imports. Good news is the barrels are usually great and accuracy improves when the cylinders are bored out to proper size. Im am not saying that is the problem but it's a good place to start looking.

Ok. Did that. Two balls. One 454 and one 457. Neither will drop into the chamber mouths after. Both measured .440/454 after being pushed throu the bore. Are your suggesting the chambers are swedging the balls to an undersized diameter, they do shave a ring but aren’t that difficult to seat.

I don't see how a carbine with a barrel that long is not more accurate.[/QUOTE]

As I observed, I’m no rifleman. It’s not shooting to point of aim, but I’m leaving that until I can shoot as good a group as I’m gonna get. Both sights are adjustable. The front by loosing a small set screw and moving in dovetail.
 
There are several things to look at here, and feel free to weigh in. Is it shaving lead when you seat the ball? This can cause the ball to rotate off center affecting accuracy. Are all the chamber mouths the same diameter? I had an 1858 Remington that had 1 chamber that was a different diameter than the other 5, it constantly threw a flyer high and left. The others would group very well. Are the balls you're shooting swaged or as cast? It may help to weigh a few of them and see how much difference the weights are. Worth a try.

Cast balls of unknown hardness. Sprue up, more on less centered, loaded off gun, two cylinders, there is a ring cut from the ball by the chamber mouth. To date .454 ball, but also cast and shoot .457 so I’ll try those also. The chambers are measuring.4435 and they are uniform as can be determined with hand held dial calipers.

This is a “for fun to shoot” and I’ll accept what ever accuracy I can get from it.
 
Ok. Did that. Two balls. One 454 and one 457. Neither will drop into the chamber mouths after. Both measured .440/454 after being pushed throu the bore. Are your suggesting the chambers are swedging the balls to an undersized diameter, they do shave a ring but aren’t that difficult to seat.

YES THAT IS WHAT I MEANT TO SUGGEST. You are right the chambers are swedging the ball to an undersized diameter.
 
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Ok. Did that. Two balls. One 454 and one 457. Neither will drop into the chamber mouths after. Both measured .440/454 after being pushed throu the bore. Are your suggesting the chambers are swedging the balls to an undersized diameter, they do shave a ring but aren’t that difficult to seat.

I don't see how a carbine with a barrel that long is not more accurate.

As I observed, I’m no rifleman. It’s not shooting to point of aim, but I’m leaving that until I can shoot as good a group as I’m gonna get. Both sights are adjustable. The front by loosing a small set screw and moving in dovetail.[/QUOTE]

Yes I am suggesting that the chambers are swedging the balls to an undersize diameter. That is what I meant to say in the previous post I am sorry about that.
 
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That may be the issue with the lead being cut from the ball, all of my revolvers have the chamber mouths beveled so the ball is compressed rather than shaved. That simple step brought 2 of mine from being minute of barn to being able to hit pop cans at 50 yards. Might be worth a try.
 
That may be the issue with the lead being cut from the ball, all of my revolvers have the chamber mouths beveled so the ball is compressed rather than shaved. That simple step brought 2 of mine from being minute of barn to being able to hit pop cans at 50 yards. Might be worth a try.

Thanks Jackrabbit. I don’t have tools for that and I’m at my limit for spending money on what is essentially a novelty. On second thought I do have a drill press suppose that could be done with a round or conical shaped grinding tip.
 
Go gently, all you need is enough material removed at the chamber mouths to give a slight taper and break the sharp edge. I have used a RCBS case chamfer tool followed by careful polishing with 320 grit wet or dry sandpaper.
 
I’m flogging a dead horse as far as this thread goes. However today was a marked improvement in the carbines accuracy. Just the simple step of dropping the powder charge resulted in this improvement. Using a better aiming point helped the shooter and his 78 year old eyes. It now shoots to POI at 50 yards. Not great but getting better. Some chrony measurements Monday to try and dial it in better. BTW.
 

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Reading along, I thought that adjussting the load might help the accuracy.
However I thought that it may have needed more powder rather than less.
Another thought was that 50 yards is an arbitrary distance and that another distance may produce better results.
Why 50 yards and not 40 yards, or 35 or 45 yards is what I mean.
However the improvements to the accuracy seem to be doing absolutely fine with what you've done.
A different powder or granulation can also help make a difference.
Even if you've tapped out the accuracy, congratulations are still in order.
Keep up the fine work and thanks for the reports. ;)
 
Reading along, I thought that adjussting the load might help the accuracy.
However I thought that it may have needed more powder rather than less.
Another thought was that 50 yards is an arbitrary distance and that another distance may produce better results.
Why 50 yards and not 40 yards, or 35 or 45 yards is what I mean.
However the improvements to the accuracy seem to be doing absolutely fine with what you've done.
A different powder or granulation can also help make a difference.
Even if you've tapped out the accuracy, congratulations are still in order.
Keep up the fine work and thanks for the reports. ;)

You have just pointed out the “club” mentality of shooting. It’s 25, 50 or 100 yards Those are the established butt lines which are slotted concrete troughs the wooden targets holders are inserted in. . Part of this is the prevention of skipping rounds over the back stops. The target holders are a specific height also to prevent rounds from being firing too low.
 
Still futching around with carbine. I have a Chrony Chronograph and did some velocity testing Monday.
The powder charges are not whole numbers but rather what Lee list as by weight charges for their CC dippers. Velocities are a six shot average. Round ball is .454 over a lubed wad. Powder Grafs 3F chrono screen 10 feet from muzzle.

1.3 CC. 20.7 grain 824fps Extreme spread 39fps
1.6CC. 25.5 grain. 935fps. Extreme spread 36fps
1.9CC. 30.3 grain 1004fps. Extreme spread 19fps
2.2CC. 35.0 grain. 1055fps. Extreme spread 73fps
2.5CC. 39.8 grains 1097fps Extreme spread 100fps

2.2CC was the max charge that would fit under a wad and still seat the ball. 2.5CC no wad, lube pill over ball.

I should note That I shot two cylinders for each powder load and used the higher average of the two.

The barrel was swabbed with a wet a patch between cylinders changes.

The velocities for the last two powder charges are suspect as the Chrony was throwing out an error indicating I was missing the front zone on several shots. I think by this time the powder was starting to foul the reading slots on the device. Instructions does suggest to cover these areas with a piece of glass or plastic, neither of which I had.

The carbine is essentially a NMA with an 18inch barrel, I don’t have a NMA here in Rhode Island but I do have the Colt 1860 and the Rogers and Spencer’s.

For amusement I’m going to see what difference 10 inches, or lack of, makes as it applies to projectile velocities. Shooting over the chronograph is as much fun as just poking holes in paper.

Accuracy is improving either the barrel is wearing in or the shooter has settled down.
 
I also have the carbine along with four NMAs. Years back I shot competitively at Friendship on the pistol range with NMAs. We always shot 20grs 3F at the 25 yard line and 25grs at the 50 [ that way the same sight picture was used ]. I think you're going to find it shoots better with less powder. I know it's a rifle and would only seem right to be able to shoot a heavier load but maybe you won't for good groups. The really good shooters, Masters, could keep 10 shots in the 10 ring at 25 yards off hand [ one handed ]. I'm too lazy to go downstairs and measure but believe it's about 2". I bought my carbine used and it shoots real nice. Must of got lucky with the nipples, no trouble, and it groups good for a guy with 72 year old eyes. I know my 100s and high 90s seem to be all used up - probably about 40 years ago. Keep playing with loads, it should shoot just fine. Maybe 20grs, some corn meal to keep the ball up in the cylinder, and a dab of lube over the ball. It's the load I used for all day of shooting - 10 to 15 every 45 minutes, from 9 to 5.
 
I also have the carbine along with four NMAs. Years back I shot competitively at Friendship on the pistol range with NMAs. We always shot 20grs 3F at the 25 yard line and 25grs at the 50 [ that way the same sight picture was used ]. I think you're going to find it shoots better with less powder. I know it's a rifle and would only seem right to be able to shoot a heavier load but maybe you won't for good groups. The really good shooters, Masters, could keep 10 shots in the 10 ring at 25 yards off hand [ one handed ]. I'm too lazy to go downstairs and measure but believe it's about 2". I bought my carbine used and it shoots real nice. Must of got lucky with the nipples, no trouble, and it groups good for a guy with 72 year old eyes. I know my 100s and high 90s seem to be all used up - probably about 40 years ago. Keep playing with loads, it should shoot just fine. Maybe 20grs, some corn meal to keep the ball up in the cylinder, and a dab of lube over the ball. It's the load I used for all day of shooting - 10 to 15 every 45 minutes, from 9 to 5.

Thank you Mr Harm. Its becoming my favorite informal shooter.
 
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