Garand Elevation Knob Markings

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D.B. Cooper

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My Garand's elevation knob has no arrow or letters indicating which direction is "UP." It does have very small single digit numbers readable from the rear of the gun and one reference line. I suspect these are yardages and they are only accurate with M2 Ball. Did the Garand ever have an arrow on its elevation knob? (My windage knob does have an arrow with the word "LEFT" on it.)
 
All of my Garand sights are like the top one in the above post. Yes, the yardages are scribed on the drum. Probably for M2 Ball, but I find that they are darn close with 168 handloads out to 600 yards.

Remember "back up" and "right away". Turn the elevation clockwise, or back towards you, to increase your elevation. Turn the windage clockwise, or away from you, to move right.
 
One click was one MOA. The yardage was graduated for 150 grain ball ammunition. If you shot HRA Highpower you more or less ignored the graduations and wrote down the clicks it took to be on at 200 yards, 300 yards, and 600 yards. I used fingernail polish and a felt tip to make the bottom, 200/300/600 yard rotation locations

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Remember "back up" and "right away". Turn the elevation clockwise, or back towards you, to increase your elevation. Turn the windage clockwise, or away from you, to move right.
That's helpful! I always guess wrong when desperately trying to add elevation during a three-gun stage.
 
Yup, mine is the T-105 type. I did the "dope" card for clicks between elevation. Problem is there are no 600 yrd ranges here, except for the Army base where the match was held, to which I have no access, so I got real world numbers for 200 and 300, but had to go with numbers from a ballistics app for 600. I had to make some adjustments on the fly, and I made it worse. C'est la vie.
 
For you "click counters", here's the clicks between John Garand's drum markings on one of my Garands with a National Match rear sight:

Bottom - 200 - 10 clicks.
200 - 300 - 3 clicks
300 - 600 - 12 clicks.

From my data book for a match last year, using my 168 gr. HPBT handloads (mv=2503 fps) at 200 and 300, and 168 Amax Hornady Garand ammo (2641 fps) at 600, all of my zeros were right on the drum markings, aperture up ( + 1/2 min.). They have varied in the past at 600 by as much as a minute (one click); 200 to 300 has always been right on. All with a 6 o'clock hold.

How do your comeups compare?
 
For you "click counters", here's the clicks between John Garand's drum markings on one of my Garands with a National Match rear sight:

Bottom - 200 - 10 clicks.
200 - 300 - 3 clicks
300 - 600 - 12 clicks.

From my data book for a match last year, using my 168 gr. HPBT handloads (mv=2503 fps) at 200 and 300, and 168 Amax Hornady Garand ammo (2641 fps) at 600, all of my zeros were right on the drum markings, aperture up ( + 1/2 min.). They have varied in the past at 600 by as much as a minute (one click); 200 to 300 has always been right on. All with a 6 o'clock hold.

How do your comeups compare?


My 200 yrd zero is 13 clicks up from bottomed out. 300 is up 3 clicks. My balisitics app tells me +15 from 300 to 600, but I've pretty much proved that wrong. (This was with 150 grn FM at about 2600 fps)
 
Yup, mine is the T-105 type. I did the "dope" card for clicks between elevation. Problem is there are no 600 yrd ranges here, except for the Army base where the match was held, to which I have no access, so I got real world numbers for 200 and 300, but had to go with numbers from a ballistics app for 600. I had to make some adjustments on the fly, and I made it worse. C'est la vie.

Recently, Creedmoor sold 50 yard sight-in targets with impact points added for ranges from 200 yards to 1000 yards. I believe that they are calibrated for M2 ball.
 
In my experience, attempting to calibrate the markings on the elevation or windage knobs of the M1/M14/M1A is less effective than sighting in with a careful count of the clicks appropriate for each distance, hence the targets noted above. This method also allows you to use different ammunition than M2 ball or equivalent as well as diffferent rifles. As an example, I use 168gr Sierra MatchKing bullets for both my M1s and my M1As for match shooting. With my preferred loads (47.0gr IMR 4895/46.5gr H4895 with the 168gr SMK in my M1s and 41.0 gr RL15 with the 168gr SMK in my M1As), I just sight in off a good front bag at ranges from 100 through 600 yards counting clicks up and down. One of my M1s, using the above loads, needs 10 clicks up from the bottom for a 100 yard zero while another requires12 clicks and a third requires 13 clicks. Once I've established the clicks needed for each rifle at each distance, I make up a "range card" on an index card for each rifle and stow it in the butt stock hole intended for a cleaning kit. That way, I can use each of my rifles with confidence without testing though these settings are highly altitude dependent (I normally shoot at altitudes between 5,400' MSL and 5,900' MSL. I'll need to redo these calculations at sea level, for example, when I go to Camp Perry for my 75th b.d. bucket shoot). YMMV.

Good shooting,
 
Generally, Garands are shot on the NRA SR target at 200. If I recall the aiming black (X, 10, and 9 rings) is 13 inches.
 
Just asking but what size targets are you guys shooting at 200 yards

Generally, Garands are shot on the NRA SR target at 200. If I recall the aiming black (X, 10, and 9 rings) is 13 inches.

^ What he said.

I've noticed that NRA High Power targets seems to be 6 MOA give or take an inch at any given distance. So yeah 13" @ 200, 18" +/- @ 300 and 36" @ 600. Only the distance between scoring rings and the lowest value at the outside ring of the scoring black seems to change. (I haven't memorized that, yet.) So a 16" gong would seem more appropriate for the 300 yard rapid fire stages (sitting and prone).
 
If you can try the CMP park at Talladega, 600yrd electronic targets. They are very helpful getting you on target. Try to make it a 2 day trip and shoot rifles one day and handgun and shotgun day 2.
 
so would a 16" gong be a good size for 200 yards

Well...

Generally, < 4 MOA is what you want to shoot.

That would be 400 yards for a 16" target.

Having that 4 MOA gong set into a 6 MOA aiming black helps a lot.


For fun, 6-8 MOA is ok, especially for gongs.

But it doesn't really tell you what you need to know.






GR
 
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so would a 16" gong be a good size for 200 yards


These are "Bert" and "Ernie".

WP_20171005_15_41_11_Pro.jpg

AR500 (3/8') 5" upper and 8" lower.

Generally use them for pistol work (Mozambique drills).

...but they have been known to wander out onto the 200 yard rifle range on occasion... usually with an old tee-shirt on a wire coat-hanger backing them up in the appropriate location.

:D




GR
 
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