Just not finding a .38 spl target load my 686 likes

Status
Not open for further replies.

Jenrick

Member
Joined
Mar 17, 2005
Messages
2,066
Location
Austin, TX
I'm looking for suggestions here. I have a couple of target loads that do well in my 4" M19, that just aren't working in my 686. I know the 686 shoots reasonably well, with 125gr .357 mag Winchester Gold Sabers, benched and single action it'll will do around 1.5" at 25 yds. The best I'm getting with 158gr HBWC's with the same setup is around 3".

One theory is that it just flat out doesn't like .38 spl brass, I'm debating loading up the same recipe in .357 mag brass and trying that out. Secondly I'm thinking about bumping up the charge a bit, is it possible the HBWC's skirt isn't expanding and gripping the rifling well?

Does anyone know what weight bullet the twist on the rifling on a 686 was designed for? Is there any reason a HBWC wouldn't shoot well in a 686?

Thanks in advance!
 
It's not easy to help you without you telling us which powder/powders you are using, charge weights, lead hardness and primers you are using.

1.5" @ 25 yards is more than shooting fairly well and 3" at the same distance isn't all that bad.

In my M686 a 12 BHN 158gr LSWC bullet over 4.0gr W231 in .38 Special brass with a CCI-500 primer shoots very well.
 
I prefer to use 357 Magnum cases in a 357 Magnum chamber but it is by no means a requirement. A 357 Magnum revolver should be able to shoot 38 Special ammunition well.

Generally, I load 158 SWC bullets in 357 Magnum cases to about 950 fps from a four inch barrel. They seem to work well together in my 357 Magnum revolvers.

On the flip side, I have had problems with accuracy with some of my 38 Special j-frames until I found a combination of powder and bullets that worked well.

My S&W M642 likes W231 under a 148 grain wadcutter but I had some difficulty finding the right combination. But, your mileage may vary. Do some experimenting with different powders and charge levels.
 
2.8-3.3gr W231, Hornady 158gr HBWC (no clue on a number for hardness, but they are pretty soft), Federal or Winchester small pistol primers. Seating depth is flush with the top of the case.

1.5" @ 25 yards is more than shooting fairly well and 3" at the same distance isn't all that bad.

Well I'm used to M19 which is my PPC gun, it will do a decent bit tighter than that in a Ransom rest. I know that I may just have a 686 that isn't a target gun, but I figured I might as well see if I can wrestle that performance from it.
 
I'm glad you started this thread. I too have been recently frustrated by trying to get 148gr target loads to work in my 6" 686. 2 different commercial lads and a couple different hanloads have produced terrible results. Compared to full power .357mag loads these target loads were just spraying bulets all over the place. I am shooting in my first bullseye match Sunday and have had to settle on using basic 158gr .38spl loads. They at least group within a B6 target at 50 yards.
 
I shoot a lot of Hornady 148 Frontier HBWC in both 38 and 357. In 38 cases it is 2.7 grains of Bullseye and in 357 it’s 3.0 grains of Bullseye. The 357 cases do group a little better from any of my 357 revolvers. But if I can group anything in less than 3 inches at 25 yards with these cataract infected 62 year old eyes I’m pretty damn happy.
 
I've not shot target loads in my 586. I have excellent accuracy from my Smith 19-5. The load was 3grs of BE and a Lyman 358495 WC. This was in 38 Special brass. We were shooting these loads from a Ransom rest. I am of several minds on how to start loading for a 357 Revolver. Generally, I go with the Special brass. It's no big deal since I keep that standard load on hand most of the time. However, I will change to 357 brass if there's any problem with the old 38 Special target loads. My bullets are usually similar to Lyman #2 and lubed with 50/50. Do what works.
 
Remington HBWC's are available periodically and are probably the best wad cutters for the 38 special. 2.8 gr of Bullseye or 3.2 gr of 231 are my go-to loads. I have not had any leading issues with the Remington bullets.
 
The 586/686 platform is extremely accurate, even with 38spl cases. Any revolver will benefit from setting the oal of the load so that the bullet aligns itself in the leade of cylinders. Short oal VS long oal, the shoulder of the longer oal extends into the leade (where the cylinder narrows down in diameter). This stops the bullet jump/side to side slop upon firing increasing accuracy.
cXoGpNh.jpg
One of my favorite plinking bullets for the 38spl/357's, a home case 158gr hp and 170gr fn. The bullet has 2 crimp grooves & I crimp that bullet in the bottom (longer oal) crimp groove when loaded in 38spl cases.
3f3FUJ4.jpg
I've shot countless 1000's of the home cast h&g #50 wc's in the 586's & 686 over the decades. I've always crimped those wc's in the 1st lube groove when sized to .358" and in the middle lube groove when sized to .357" when seated in the 38spl cases. The 158gr fnhp's and the wc's loaded in 38spl cases for a 686.
Daxlniz.jpg

Those plinking loads pictured above were made for shooting shotgun shells. We setup shotgun shells on the bowling pin table and shoot them instead of bowling pins. Same rules as bowling pins, just shotgun shells instead @ 50ft instead of the typical bowling pin/25ft line. Not hand picked/cherry picked by any means, nothing more than the test targets used that day testing plinking loads for the 686. While 50ft is nothing to write home about the 10-ring on those test targets is 5/8". 6-shot groups tested @ 50ft with 38spl loads in a 686.
vrmI4za.jpg
 
a minimal taper crimp works best for target wadcutter-type loads.

luck,

murf
 
I use a Redding crimp die on my 550 in a dedicated tool head. This arrangement has worked very well. The roll portion of the crimp is barely visible with most of the work done as a taper crimp. With my load of 3gr.of BE and 150 gr. wad cutter not much crimp is needed.
 
Anyone who has multiple handguns in the same caliber will tell you they all have their preferences. With lead bullets, those preference are much more noticeable than with jacketed projectiles. Most folks would be happy if they could get 3" groups at 25 yards with a .357 revolver, even when bench rested and shot S.A.. I'd bet the gun's dislike for the HBWCs is the projectile and not the brass.

Your title to this thread says you cannot find a target load that your 686 likes, but it seems to like the Gold Sabers. While probably not exactly a target load, it does show you that the gun is accurate with the right load. I'd try some bulk 125 jacketed.
 
Your title to this thread says you cannot find a target load that your 686 likes, but it seems to like the Gold Sabers. While probably not exactly a target load, it does show you that the gun is accurate with the right load. I'd try some bulk 125 jacketed.

That is an excellent point, and an excellent suggestion.
 
I find it curious that your 686 doesn't like .38 spl loads. My 686 no dash shoots wadcutter loads into one hole at 25 yards as does my S&W M28. I reload wadcutters with 2.7 grains of BE by the thousands and they are my standard everyday/everything load. The .38 spl all do well with them and I seldom fire more powerful loads in them. Going to .357 brass would likely take care of your guns problem.
 
You may want to try a box or two of factory wadcutters just to see how they perform. In my 686 (no dash), it's a 6" barrel but I found Titegroup produced the smallest .38 special wadcutter group. I also have load workup done with IMR Target which was very close, but while I'm not a fan of Titegroup in some load combos it's pretty precise.
If you're willing to experiment a bit, Bayou has some 138gr BNWC that are very nice shooting - light recoil, accurate and precise.
 
I'd try a different bullet. Maybe a 148gr DEWC.
Using 357 brass won't hurt.
Are you using mixed headstamps?
I've had great luck with 148gr DEWCs and 158gr plain base SWCs over Bullseye
 
I'll echo the previous post and say that I have had good luck with 148 DEWC and 158 SWCs in 357 brass. Missouri bullet company uncoated on both of these molds shoots good for me.

The difference is that I like HP-38 but have used other powders with some success. Always keep coming back to the HP38/W231 for 38 special and light 357 loads.

Around 3.3 to 3.5 grains sounds right for the 148 and a little over 4 grains for the 158, but check your manual as always.
 
I've tested a slew of powders in my GP100-6" and Accurate No.2 always did the best with 148gr DEWC from MBC, Acme, or Berry. That's with the bullet flush with the case mouth so that the powder doesn't get "position sensitive". Velocities are around 750fps.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top