Which budget bolt 223?

$300 buys you another AR that you could set up with a scope.

LoonWulf said:

perhaps I was expecting too much from my 527, but honestly I think besides being the correct size for the Grendel it's chambered in, and not using AR mags, I prefer the Amy's for the cost. I
want to try a Howa mini, and honestly if buying a .223 sized case that's what I'd suggest as a viable upgrade to the Amy. Savage also has the m25 which is another I'd look at if buying a .223 bassed rifle.
And this isn't to say I don't like my 527, but for the 700 bucks I spent it could have been a little smoother. Accuracy with what I've tried so far hasn't been spectacular either 1.25-1.5" or so. I need to get some other projectiles all I've used are 123s


I keep hearing that rugers arnt accurate, but so far none of mine have been anything less than boring.
Perhaps I've just been lucky.

As a note on the Savage 10/axis barrels, I've had it confirmed that ALL Savage line rifles carry the same quality barrels. My experience is that they tend to be rough, but consistently accurate.
The accu-trigger is a decent factory trigger, but I dislike that it only blocks the sear from dropping, not the trigger itself from actuating. My trigger fingers been broken and the tip ends up down, joint high, this means I have to very carefully pull an accutrigger to keep from dropping the sear with side pressure on the upper part of the trigger. The rugers blade blocks the trigger from traveling at all, which allows me to be sloppier on placement.

again just info, honestly I think you'll have to TRY to actually find a bad choice for a simple shooter.

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I hear you on the mags....they are a bit spendy....but just how many do you need for a rifle like thiss...I have two and to tell the truth when I shoot this gun is is really pretty slow. Mine is in 223 so I can't comment on the others, after I found the COAL this thing likes....it is a bit on the long side....it is a laser.

I have been looking at Tikka in 243, but not pulled the trigger yet....they are darn nice rifles.

Do you roll your own for your CZ, your inch and a quarter, inch and a half comment is not something I read very often when talking about 527.

I think if I was looking at something along the lines of even an RPR I would look to savages offering.

fpgt72 said:

I hear you on the mags....they are a bit spendy....but just how many do you need for a rifle like thiss...I have two and to tell the truth when I shoot this gun is is really pretty slow. Mine is in 223 so I can't comment on the others, after I found the COAL this thing likes....it is a bit on the long side....it is a laser.

I have been looking at Tikka in 243, but not pulled the trigger yet....they are darn nice rifles.

Do you roll your own for your CZ, your inch and a quarter, inch and a half comment is not something I read very often when talking about 527.

I think if I was looking at something along the lines of even an RPR I would look to savages offering.

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I've got just the single mag, and since this is a hunting gun it's probably all I'll have unless I loose it. I was actually considering having it trimmed down to 3 ends to be nearly flush.

I shot a couple boxes of Hornady black, but mostly my own handloads. The only bullets I've used were Hornady 123s tho, factory or handloads.

From what I've read the Grendel's have been spotty accuracy wise. Mine is also slow even for a 20" barrel ( it's a 24) so I'm wondering if there are bore dia issues.

This is just MY personal opinion, and I started out as a total Savage fan boy, but now, and for the cost, there are other guns I prefer.
If accuracy per dollar is the name of the game the lower prices Savage 10/110s are consistently accurate, they don't NEED an moa guarantee, because we all just assume it.
Going up from there tho your buying features and refinement, and just like every 10/110 carries the same barrel, they all use the same action and trigger (ignoring the target actions). A 1000 dollar ba stealths action will feel the same as a 350 dollar sba.

For me either a Howa or Mossberg Thunder Ranch.

https://www.budsgunshop.com/catalog/mobile/product/111181/savage+22237+10+sba+bolt+65+creedmoor+20+4+1+black+synthetic+stk+black

oops only available in .308 and 6.5....

BigBL87 said:

Where have you been seeing them for 350? If I could get an 11 for $350 that would probably be my first choice as I really like my 10.

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I've seen them off and on online st that price. Off the top of my head I think cdnn had a few. I don't recall exact calibers though.

I have seen both the hog hunter and model 25 (walking varminter) for $400 as well

drobs said:

$300 buys you another AR that you could set up with a scope.

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Is that $300 AR as accurate as these budget bolt rifles tho?

@LoonWulf and @VoodooMountain have a point on the magazine issue with the budget bolt actions. IMO, if I'm getting a .223/5.56 or .308 bolt action, I see no reason to go with a rifle that doesn't use AR or AICS magazines and instead get stuck with proprietary mag that in general are overpriced and not made with quality materials.

It's one of the reasons I haven't bothered with the Ruger American Rance 7.62x39. Sure, it uses Mini-30 mags, but I'm never gonna buy a Mini-30 and the AK mags I have are mostly Tapco and some Magpul. Those are probably the two most popular AK magazine manufacturers, so I don't see why Ruger couldn't make an American that's specifically made to use those AK magazines with the possibility that standard AK mags not made by those companies MAY work, but no GUARANTEES. I'm just sick of the excuse "Oh, AK mags are SO variable and different. We can't make a rifle that'll work with ALL of them."

Yeah, cuz I'm really gonna use a 30 round mag or a 75 round drum with a 7.62x39 bolt action rifle.

For anything not those calibers, I'm fine with a proprietary mag. Really, when it comes to a bolt action, call me old fashioned, but I have no issue with it having an internal magazine like a 1903 Springfield.

TTv2 said:

Is that $300 AR as accurate as these budget bolt rifles tho?

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yes

I agree with Troy, Budget AR. will be just as accurate as a bolt. Basic kit from PSA is 279.00 (minus lower). put a scope on and you are good to go. Cheap mags and parts everywhere

Now if you have to have a bolt. I love my ruger ranch in 762x39. If i didnt have enough rifles in .223/5.56 i would have a RAR in 5.56 in a hot minute. I have be debating on swapping my trusty ol remington 700 in 30-06 for a ruger for hunting.

TTv2 said:

@LoonWulf and @VoodooMountain have a point on the magazine issue with the budget bolt actions. IMO, if I'm getting a .223/5.56 or .308 bolt action, I see no reason to go with a rifle that doesn't use AR or AICS magazines and instead get stuck with proprietary mag that in general are overpriced and not made with quality materials.

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how about you value the look of the rifle as well as just function. Hang a ugly AR mag off a fine wood and blue steel and hand me a barf bag.

TTv2 said:

Is that $300 AR as accurate as these budget bolt rifles tho?

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And again because we need nothing but the ar platform.

fpgt72 said:

how about you value the look of the rifle as well as just function. Hang a ugly AR mag off a fine wood and blue steel and hand me a barf bag.

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I dislike sticky out mags on any traditional shaped rifle. The 527s and other similar rifles have relatively inoffensive sticky out mags, but I'd rather have a floor plate.

I'm still considering having my 527s mag shortened to near flush, and the bottom metal modified to match.

LoonWulf said:

I dislike sticky out mags on any traditional shaped rifle. The 527s and other similar rifles have relatively inoffensive sticky out mags, but I'd rather have a floor plate.

I'm still considering having my 527s mag shortened to near flush, and the bottom metal modified to match.

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I like the clean lines of having everything inside the gun.....it does just look better.....but in a sporting gun a "sticky out mag".....(I love that term BTW....I think I will steal it) they can be done well, and not hurt the gun too much.

In talking about sporting guns how they look has a great deal to do with it. I don't mind a big ole chunky mag on a military rifle.....I don't want a big old chunky rifle on a sporting rifle.....just fugly.

To tell the truth I have "run" the mag in my 527 about 10 times in the few years I have owned it....most of the shooting I do is singles.

Load, shoot, look put this that and the other in the book.....go at it again. Very relaxing.....enjoyable.....and a good looking rifle to boot.

fpgt72 said:

how about you value the look of the rifle as well as just function. Hang a ugly AR mag off a fine wood and blue steel and hand me a barf bag.

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For something like the CZ 7.62x39 rifle, yeah, I can understand that, but wood/steel bolt rifles aren't what's selling, at least not in the numbers the sub $500 bolt actions are.

TTv2 said:

For something like the CZ 7.62x39 rifle, yeah, I can understand that, but wood/steel bolt rifles aren't what's selling, at least not in the numbers the sub $500 bolt actions are.

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I really don't track sales numbers....I know tacti-stupid is pretty popular as everyone wants to play rambo.....it would be cool to see sales figures for like the CZ line of rimfire, they have some that fit very close together but in the looks area.....ruger selling their little tacti-stupid rimfire....sales next to what 10-22....apples and oranges.....does ruger make a blue and wood bolt 22?

fpgt72 said:

I really don't track sales numbers....I know tacti-stupid is pretty popular as everyone wants to play rambo.....it would be cool to see sales figures for like the CZ line of rimfire, they have some that fit very close together but in the looks area.....ruger selling their little tacti-stupid rimfire....sales next to what 10-22....apples and oranges.....does ruger make a blue and wood bolt 22?

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ruger makes the american rimfire in blue/wood. i'm not to fond of the wood stock, it's like they put the synthetic stock in a duplicator . the action is great tho, very accurate rifles.

fpgt72 said:

I really don't track sales numbers....I know tacti-stupid is pretty popular as everyone wants to play rambo.....it would be cool to see sales figures for like the CZ line of rimfire, they have some that fit very close together but in the looks area.....ruger selling their little tacti-stupid rimfire....sales next to what 10-22....apples and oranges.....does ruger make a blue and wood bolt 22?

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You can call it "tacti-stupid" if you want, but what it is is a cost reduction as a wood stock makes the rifles cost more and also the wood stock American Rimfires can't use the interchangeable cheek risers for scope use.

But IDK, maybe putting a scope on such a rifle is beyond "tacti-stupid" to you...

and what @troy fairweather said, the wood stocks Ruger offers are ugly. The pressed checkering is the exact same pattern and location as what's on the poly stock models.

fpgt72 said:

I really don't track sales numbers....I know tacti-stupid is pretty popular as everyone wants to play rambo.....it would be cool to see sales figures for like the CZ line of rimfire, they have some that fit very close together but in the looks area.....ruger selling their little tacti-stupid rimfire....sales next to what 10-22....apples and oranges.....does ruger make a blue and wood bolt 22?

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I don't necessarily think it's folks wanting to play Rambo.
I've had/have a number of mid level rifles, and none of them out shot my 500 or less guns. For pure performance, your basically having to spend significantly more per...uh...once?....once you get out of the better budget gun territory.

At this point the extra refinement of a slightly higher end model appeals to me, which is mostly why I have a sorta negative view of a number of otherwise really good rifles.
If im just looking for an accurate rifle that will load a round and go hang every time I pull the trigger, I'll just buy a sub 500 dollar rifle.
Once I spend more than that I want something that makes me want to take it out an play with it.

Also at this point, the next wood stocked gun I order is going to be worth more than my cars. I'm tired of spending decent money on guns with ok, or even good wood and blue. They just don't make me pass over other stuff to want to use them. If it can't do that it's not worth the extra over a composite stocked working gun.

The cheap psa ar-15's aren't even close to being in the same class accuracy wise as the majority of the budget bolt action 223's.

Interesting to see how many people think a ar mag hanging out of a bolt action rifle is a good thing. I could case less about how it looks, getting in the way/performance with carry & position shooting is more important to me than having 10/20/30 shots to cycle thru a bolt action.

A couple of years back I was looking at the cheap bolt action 223 market. Was interested in doing an experiment using the cheapest components I could make/find and run them thru a cheap bolt action 223. Ended up with a cheap heavy bbl'd savage axis for $318 out the door. Had a $50 mail in rebate and I sold the cheap scope that came with it for another $50. Ended up with $218 bolt action rifle. Never did anything to it, heck even left the accru-trigger as it was out of the box. No adjusting anything, doing anything to the stock, nada. The only thing I did was tested the torque's on the action screws as I zeroed the 24x scope I put on it that I've used for silhouettes.
Anyway to make a short story long I got free lead from the berm to use as bullet cores, 22lr cases to use as bullet jackets and used free range pickup brass to shoot those home swaged bullets out of. I did sort the brass into 2 piles commercial & nato. The bullets I made out of free lead/free 22lr cases


I ran around 40 rounds down the tube zeroing the scope in and playing with the action screw torques. Cleaned the bbl and then shot this target/5-shot groups @ 100yds.


25.5gr to 26.5gr of bl-c2 has always produced moa or better accuracy for me in several firearms chambered in 223. The savage axis was no different. That 25.5gr load put 3 in 1 hole and 2 out 5/8" to 5/8" outside to outside. Those are real world results from savage axis using mixed nato range brass that were full length sized and trimmed only (no fire forming/neck turning/primer pocket uniforming/ect). The bullets are nothing more than home swaged.

That 25.5gr load/accuracy pictured above is repeatable along with finding excellent loads using h335.

That's what a box stock $218 savage axis does for me using free brass/free bullets, $20 per 1000 s&b primers and ball powder.

TTv2 said:

You can call it "tacti-stupid" if you want, but what it is is a cost reduction as a wood stock makes the rifles cost more and also the wood stock American Rimfires can't use the interchangeable cheek risers for scope use.

But IDK, maybe putting a scope on such a rifle is beyond "tacti-stupid" to you...

and what @troy fairweather said, the wood stocks Ruger offers are ugly. The pressed checkering is the exact same pattern and location as what's on the poly stock models.

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well yea....Ruger, say no more.

Not everyone likes plastic....some people like things with a little class to them.....and plastic got zero class.

fpgt72 said:

well yea....Ruger, say no more.

Not everyone likes plastic....some people like things with a little class to them.....and plastic got zero class.

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then pay the extra for the "class" and enjoy, but don't crap on people who choose not to.

or simply enjoy something different for that matter