Blanked my first primer

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I've chased misfires in 2 rifles recently. One was related to headspace (which doesn't look like a problem in your case since everything is flush and isn't backing out). The other one was firing pin spring. It was over a half inch shorter than it should have been.

But tear it down and clean it. Lube can get gummy over the long haul--especially someone has ever done WD-40. Check to make sure the extractor is intact and clean.
 
Broke the bolt down and cleaned it real good. Savage must apply some kind of sticky grease at the factory. Put a light coating of oil on it and reassembled.

Didn’t find any debris from the primer
 
Your first pierced primer? Hard to believe. Pierced primers are common with the 223 in NRA competition. Competitors are trying to push the round because the ballistic coefficient is inferior to the 6.5's.

Yoyu might be able to see little dimples inside the firing pin indentations. Whenever you have a pierced primer in the 223, the gas release removes a bit of the firing pin tip.

HhVuFR6.jpg


That shows up as a dimple, you can see two in the primers at 6 and 7OC in the picture. Most of these cases I could get the primer to fall out by tapping the case head against a hard surface. Only the crimp is keeping the primer in the pocket.

This one was interesting

JaNeH0D.jpg

My bud had a load so hot, that this flowed into the firing pin hole in the bolt. We did not know what it was at the time, but we figured out, it is the primer anvil! That is his firing pin under the case head. Lots of gas release.

AR15 firing pin are relatively cheap to replace, but I doubt you can buy a pocket full of Savage 110 firing pins. It is very easy to ruin a firing pin with pierced primers. A little bit goes each gas release.

I recommend cutting your loads until it stops. It does not matter what the previous load did, or how the previous primers worked, or any other previous activity. What matters is that you are having this phenomena now, and cut your loads, now.
 
Your first pierced primer? Hard to believe. Pierced primers are common with the 223 in NRA competition. Competitors are trying to push the round because the ballistic coefficient is inferior to the 6.5's.

Yoyu might be able to see little dimples inside the firing pin indentations. Whenever you have a pierced primer in the 223, the gas release removes a bit of the firing pin tip.

View attachment 852558


That shows up as a dimple, you can see two in the primers at 6 and 7OC in the picture. Most of these cases I could get the primer to fall out by tapping the case head against a hard surface. Only the crimp is keeping the primer in the pocket.

This one was interesting

View attachment 852559

My bud had a load so hot, that this flowed into the firing pin hole in the bolt. We did not know what it was at the time, but we figured out, it is the primer anvil! That is his firing pin under the case head. Lots of gas release.

AR15 firing pin are relatively cheap to replace, but I doubt you can buy a pocket full of Savage 110 firing pins. It is very easy to ruin a firing pin with pierced primers. A little bit goes each gas release.

I recommend cutting your loads until it stops. It does not matter what the previous load did, or how the previous primers worked, or any other previous activity. What matters is that you are having this phenomena now, and cut your loads, now.

Yeah, first one.

I looked at the firing pin under an eye loop and couldn’t see any signs of damage.

If I’m not seeing any other pressure signs (no heavy bolt lift, no primer pocket or case head expansion, primers still have a radius at the edge) why suspect the load? Couldn’t it be one, or a combination of:

Weak spring
Excess clearance between firing pin and hole
Thinner primer cup with the CCI400
 
If I’m not seeing any other pressure signs (no heavy bolt lift, no primer pocket or case head expansion, primers still have a radius at the edge) why suspect the load? Couldn’t it be one, or a combination of:

Don't be in denial. The first, primary, cause of over pressure is too much powder in the case. If you had a pressure gauge, you would know what the pressures are in the case, but without instrumentation, you are attempting to make logical assumptions about physical phenomenon that are about as useful for predicting pressures, as the pattern of tea leaves on the bottom of a cup.

Don't assume nothing has changed in either your powder lot, or the components you use. I gotta tell you, the number of AR15 firing pins that got ate up on my AR's when Winchester changed from the good old nickle plated WSR to the current brass colored WSR. I had to cut my loads a lot. Then I bought CCI #41's and was able to use my old loads without any problems. Winchester never called me up to tell me of their changes to their product line, I had to find that out through the school of hard knocks.
 
Yeah, first one.

I looked at the firing pin under an eye loop and couldn’t see any signs of damage.

If I’m not seeing any other pressure signs (no heavy bolt lift, no primer pocket or case head expansion, primers still have a radius at the edge) why suspect the load? Couldn’t it be one, or a combination of:

Weak spring
Excess clearance between firing pin and hole
Thinner primer cup with the CCI400

I'm going to say it's a combination of a couple of things. The excess clearance between the FP and FP hole is the main problem when you see primer flow. Then the softer/thinner/weaker priming cap the combination reached it's limits. Any machinist who has worked with shaft clearance will confirm 0.003" is too much on that size pin, unless you want a sloppy loose fit. Fix the clearance problem and the problem will/may completely go away.

In my LR-6.5 CM I was having bad primer flow at min starting charges. Once I got up to where the nodes are I started blowing primers. I then was forced to replace the bolt with JP Enterprise HP bolt and all primer flow went away. When I ran a primer test using Fed 205M and 205MAR the sensitive of the 205M generated Slam Fires and primer flow. None of the others ( CCI BR4, Rem 7 1/2, CCI #41 and Fed 205MAR) did not. I don't understand why mfg do it except to speed up the mfg time by a few seconds on 1 hole. All the CNC machines can hold tight tolerances if you set them up do it.
 
I gotta tell you, the number of AR15 firing pins that got ate up on my AR's when Winchester changed from the good old nickle plated WSR to the current brass colored WSR. I had to cut my loads a lot. Then I bought CCI #41's and was able to use my old loads without any problems.

It was a combination of your load, and the change Winchester made to their primer, not just powder charge.

I’m not in denial. It might be the combination of my load AND the CCI400 primers. I didn’t blank any primers with 205Ms, which is the only primer I’ve used so far with this load. Going back and looking at my targets I probably should have just left well enough alone

ZiCNeap.png
 
Assuming you measured velocity, did you notice any significant change in velocity?

I didn't have the chrono out unfortunately.

What I may do when time permits is run some reduced loads and see if there's still primer flowing around the firing pin.
 
The CCI 400 primer flows sooner then Rem 7 1/2 for me. More so with 68/69 gr bullets.

Used 4 different burn rate IMR powders to work up loads. The CCI started flowing around mid-range loads when working up.

I put the Rem 6 1/2 & CCI 400 in the same class. Good for 40,000 PSI maximum. IMO.

Savage Axis now has 2417 rounds fired. Time for a new one.
 

Thank you for that

To quote from the link

What does all this mean to the reloader?
– Cases that utilize small rifle primers and operate at moderate pressures (40,000 psi) can use CCI 400, Federal 200, Rem 6 1/2, or Win SR. Such cases include 22 CCM, 22 Hornet and the 218 Bee. Other cases that use the small rifle primer can use the above primers only if moderate loads are used. Keep to the lower end of reloading recommendations.

– Cases that utilize small rifle primers and operate at higher pressures (55,000 psi) should use CCI 450, CCI BR4, Fed 205 and Rem 7 1/2.

I spent an hour over at savageshooters.com reading page after page of guys having problems with primer flow and blanking primers, many of them with factory ammo. The general consensus is Savage bolts have too much clearance between the firing pin and the hole. Everyone I read where the OP reported a successful solution did one of the following things:

1. Ordered a new firing pin from Savage with hopes of getting a larger diameter to better mate with the hole. This is hit or miss and luck of the draw.
2. Send bolt to Gre-Tan to get hole bushed and pin ground to match ($80)
3. Use a different primer with a thicker cup, if they are handloading (i.e. CCI 450, CCI BR4, Fed 205 and Rem 7 1/2, instead of CCI 400, Federal 200, Rem 6 1/2, or Win SR)
 
90g Berger VLD, 24.2g Varget, 2,725 fps

Hodgdon's website only has data for 90gr Sierra bullet, but for it, the maximum charge of Varget is 22.3 grains (and that's a compressed load). Unless I'm missing something, it seems that using 24.2 grains is overcharged.
 
Hodgdon's website only has data for 90gr Sierra bullet, but for it, the maximum charge of Varget is 22.3 grains (and that's a compressed load). Unless I'm missing something, it seems that using 24.2 grains is overcharged.

Keep in mind that these are competition loads. There really is no other reason for 90g bullets in a .223. To shoot these in a .223 requires a chamber specifically cut for these extra long missiles. There isn’t a single F Class competitor, that I know of, who isn’t loading above some published max.

When loading for F Class you are really leaving the world of SAAMI specs and loading manuals behind and relying on your load development discipline and the experience of other competition shooters to stay in a safe place while pushing the cartridge to it’s upper limits
 
Weak spring
The pin strike sets my case shoulder back .006" when measuring head to datum before and after, using a dead primer, Savage Axis 223.
Found this out on a defective CCI 400 primer that fired on the 4th pin strike , using different brass.

The 2nd strike made it .013" set back when using the same case. The extractor type makes a difference.
 
The pin strike sets my case shoulder back .006" when measuring head to datum before and after, using a dead primer, Savage Axis 223.
Found this out on a defective CCI 400 primer that fired on the 4th pin strike , using different brass.

The 2nd strike made it .013" set back when using the same case. The extractor type makes a difference.

I ordered a Wolff spring, which has more force than the stock spring. I’ll be curious to see how that affects performance. I expect bolt lift will suffer.

How do I apply what your wrote to this situation?
 
If the factory pin strike sets the shoulder back , the spring may be strong enough and not aid primer flow.

My brass was not annealed by me.
 
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