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socalbeachbum

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We have a nice 25 yd indoor range I recently joined, and I'm shopping for a pistol I can enjoy there, I tried a Walther Q5 last night and was blown away by the accuracy. The range has HK Experts and Elites for sale, but not for rent. I'm wondering for $950 the HK's seem like a good deal, and I'd hope they'd be as accurate or more so than that Q5. Would they ???

I like 9mm and was wondering how accurate I could make a Glock 34, if I had Wilson or Barsto fit a match barrel, trigger work, etc., would it be as good as the Q5?

I've also considered the P226 X5, P320 X5, CZ TS, or even a National Match Colt. My eyes aren't great so I'm thinking of going with a Trijicon RMR type 2 with dot size 3.25 so I can wear prescription lenses.

The range only allows 1 shot per second, so it is more or less bullseye shooting style.

Suggestions?
 
P210, sure, hard to get in California, runs about $2800-3000 here for one legally brought into the state. That's why I'm thinking the HK Elite is a good deal, plenty on them here at $950-1000.
The P320 X5 goes for roughly $1300, the P226 X5 may be about $2500, CZ TC about $2000+, a Gold Cup maybe $1600+ and the Q5 maybe $1400-1800.
This is why I thought about a Glock 34 with fitted barrel, but I'd be into it more than the price of the Elite and it would not have nearly as good of a trigger. The Elite has nice sights too.
 
Ask Wilson and Barsto what type of accuracy you can expect from those guns with their barrels.

With respect to the other guns, there is no way to predict their accuracy with any accuracy. Every gun is different and you have to test a variety of ammo to see what they like or don't like.

Another gun to consider is a S&W M&P9 and have Apex fit one of their barrels.
 
I've also considered the ... P320 X5
I thought P320 anything was not CA legal?

I would lean towards Walther Q5 Match for $649 if the LGS would match prices - https://www.sticksandstonesarms.com/product/walther-ppq-q5-match-9mm/

Another gun to consider is a S&W M&P9
S&W pulled almost all of their centerfire semi-auto pistols from CA some years ago. Only Shields, SDVEs and 22LR semi-autos are CA legal - https://www.smith-wesson.com/state-compliance
 
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Wilson seems to claim 1" @ 25 for their 1911's, and I tried their CQB and found it slightly more accurate than my 92A1 Beretta, I could do about 3.6" group at 25yds.

I seem to hover around just under 4" groups at 25 yards, iron sights, 2 hand hold standing with accurate pistols in 9mm or .45 and a bit tighter than that with .22LR. I think it is time I use a red dot though.
 
The way California does this is a roster of approved handguns for which the manufacturer paid fees to go through safety drop tests, exorbitant fees.
If a handgun is on the list it can be purchased new, no problem. If it is not on the list it has to be a used handgun, that somehow found it's way into
California including it's been here for years, it just came in with someone who moved here, or it belongs to a person with residency in another state,
also active police members seem to be able to run across state lines and 'import' non-roster handguns, then sell them here as used. So, we can get a Q5
used or a P320 X5 used, but we pay through the nose when we find one for sale. That $649 for a new Q5 outside California becomes roughly double
if it is for sale here in California. The used handgun rule applies only to private party transfers, dealers may not import non-roster handguns new or used.
Basically used handgun sales is an exemption to the rules.
 
I recently handled a TS Orange, and found it intoxicating. I think it would serve you well.

The Shadow 2 is a hell of a gun for the price if you like DA/SA and want a gun with adjustable sights.

The Sig Legion Series 226 and 229 SAO guns are getting good reviews. I dig the new P210 quite a bit. Beretta has a new competition oriented gun that will likely be a real nice shooter if you can get past the toothiness of the gun.
 
Are any of the Tanfoglio Elite models on the roster? Those are generally very accurate guns.

Fitted up barrel or not, this is not really what Glocks are made for.
 
Fitted up barrel or not, this is not really what Glocks are made for.
Agree. It seems a little like fiddling around with a Glock to make it a bullseye gun is like spending the money needed to make a Chevy Malibu into a Camaro, when for the same price you could have just gotten the Camaro.

In the end, to me, a Glock is still just a Glock, accurate or not. There are better bases to build from for this purpose.

JMO
 
Fitted up barrel or not, this is not really what Glocks are made for

Yeah for a target only gun. I wouldn't be looking at anything with a plastic frame.

Another vote for a TS from the choices listed.
 
ya, I hear you. I was so impressed by that Q5 I would not have expected a striker fired pistol to be very accurate. But Sig has gone to it also.

I tried the Springfield 1911 load 9mm and it was not very accurate in my hands.

This is our Roster: https://www.oag.ca.gov/firearms/certguns pistols get added or subtracted to this list, mostly subtracted :(

Our gun shows are now loaded with the 80% guys, 80% 1911's, 80% P320's, 80% AR-10's and AR-15's, and 80% Glocks. We can still make our own handguns as long as we apply for and receive a registration number before

we do the build. I have even seen 80% M249's for sale.
 
The CA DOJ Roster means slim pickings out here for sure. And I certainly wouldn’t want to see anybody ripped off in a private party transfer deal. A Kimber Stainless Target Ii 9mm 1911 is on the CA roster. Another one would be the CZ Tactical Sport, although the TS is one that you don’t see see at the LGS’s out here.
 
If you can get a USP Elite 9mm for under a grand, grab it.
Had one about 15 years ago, fantastic target pistol.
The Kimber 9mm Target II is my current target queen, very easy to shoot great groups with it.
 
So at the range this evening, I used a Wilson Combat CQB .45 1911 and did well with it, but with my reumatoid arthritis, I realize .45 is not right for me, so I'm deleting the HK Elite and Expert from my list. Makes me think or getting another Smith 41, but I tend to get bored with .22 even though I know it's probably right for me. Probably I'll keep my eye out for a CZ TS, P210, 9mm Elite, but these are all $2.5-3k choices. I did note the 2 mentions of the Kimber 1911 9mm target. Wish I could try one. How accurate is it ???
 
The Tanfoglio target pistols are very nice, if you can find one in CA.

This one is somewhere in between their service pistols and their full-on target models, IIRC.
 
HK USP Expert in 9mm is where I would look given your situation. I have a long slide VP9 and the barrel fitting is identical to a USP Expert to include the O ring. That slide is proving to be far more accurate than any other 9mm that I have shot. For the money the HK’s with match fit barrels with the O ring bushing on the barrel are tough to beat for mechanical accuracy.

Primary Machine did my slide milling for the VP9 long slide for an Aimpoint ACRO P-1, and I really like the combination.
 
So at the range this evening, I used a Wilson Combat CQB .45 1911 and did well with it, but with my reumatoid arthritis, I realize .45 is not right for me, so I'm deleting the HK Elite and Expert from my list.
Over the years, I helped select pistols for many shooters, including those with arthritis and many did well with more forgiving polymer framed pistols like Glock that tends to absorb the impact shock.

Wish I could try one. How accurate is it ???
FWIW, here's a listing of various factory pistol 25 yard groups done by American Rifleman for reference from smaller to larger (To my surprise, many 1911s did not fair well as I only listed smallest of 25 yard group pistols) - https://www.thehighroad.org/index.p...s-and-discussions.778197/page-9#post-10940688

Nighthawk Custom Hi-Power (25 yards) 0.74" to 1.71" - https://www.americanrifleman.org/articles/2017/4/11/tested-nighthawk-custom-hi-power/

EAA Witness Elite 1911 (25 yards) 0.82" to 1.41" - https://www.americanrifleman.org/articles/2017/5/5/tested-eaa-witness-elite-1911-polymer-pistol/

Lipsey's Vickers Tactical Glock 17 (25 yards) 1.00" to 1.80" - https://www.americanrifleman.org/articles/2017/3/23/tested-lipsey-s-vickers-tactical-glock-17/

Ruger PC carbine (50 yards) 1.13" to 1.42" - https://www.americanrifleman.org/articles/2018/1/2/tested-ruger-s-pc-carbine-and-security-9-pistol/

Sig P320 X-Five/VTAC (25 yards) 1.14" to 1.97" - https://www.americanrifleman.org/articles/2018/8/10/tested-sig-sauer-p320-x-series-pistols/

S&W M&P9 M2.0 Compact (25 yards) 1.22" to 3.64" - https://www.americanrifleman.org/articles/2017/11/30/tested-smith-wesson-mp9-m20-compact-pistol/

Remington R1 M1911 (25 yards) 1.24" to 2.99" - https://www.americanrifleman.org/articles/2011/1/13/the-remington-r1-m1911/

KRISS Vector Gen II SDP 9 (25 yards) 1.33" to 1.53" - https://www.americanrifleman.org/articles/2016/7/19/tested-kriss-usa-vector-gen-ii-sdp-9-mm-pistol/

S&W M&P9 M2.0 (25 yards) 1.33" to 2.36" - https://www.americanrifleman.org/articles/2017/5/22/tested-smith-wessons-mp-m20-pistol/

Sig P225 (25 yards) 1.38" to 2.43" - https://www.americanrifleman.org/articles/2018/6/22/tested-sig-sauer-p225-a1-nitron-compact-pistol/

Ruger SR1911 Target (25 yards) 1.46" to 3.23" - https://www.americanrifleman.org/articles/2017/1/9/tested-ruger-sr1911-target-pistol/

Sig P226 Legion Series (25 yards) 1.58" to 2.36" - https://www.americanrifleman.org/articles/2016/4/15/tested-sig-sauer-legion-series-p226-pistol/

Ruger Mark IV 22/45 Lite (25 yards) 1.82" to 2.00" - https://www.americanrifleman.org/articles/2017/3/3/tested-ruger-mark-iv-2245-lite-pistol/

FN 509 (25 yards) 1.88" to 2.06" - https://www.americanrifleman.org/articles/2017/6/26/tested-the-fn-509-pistol/

H&K VP9SK (25 yards) 1.97" to 2.23" - https://www.americanrifleman.org/articles/2018/1/5/tested-heckler-koch-s-vp9sk-pistol/

Beretta APX (25 yards) 2.30" to 2.47" - https://www.americanrifleman.org/articles/2017/7/25/tested-beretta-s-apx-pistol/

CZ P-10 C (25 yards) 2.40" to 3.02" - https://www.americanrifleman.org/articles/2017/10/6/tested-cz-p-10-c-pistol/

Kimber Camp Guard 10mm (25 yards) 2.41" to 2.69" - https://www.americanrifleman.org/articles/2018/1/11/tested-kimber-camp-guard-10-pistol/

Springfield XDM 4.5" OSP (25 yards) 2.46" to 2.80" - https://www.americanrifleman.org/articles/2017/3/21/tested-springfield-xdm-45-osp-9-mm-pistol/

Ruger American (25 yards) 2.48" to 2.89" - https://www.americanrifleman.org/articles/2015/12/29/tested-ruger-american-pistol/

PSA 1911 Stainless Two-Tone (25 yards) 2.51" to 2.89" - https://www.americanrifleman.org/ar...to-state-armory-1911-two-tone-premium-pistol/

Walther PPQ M2 Q4 Tac (25 yards) 2.53" to 2.76" - https://www.americanrifleman.org/articles/2018/1/19/tested-walther-ppq-m2-q4-tac-9-mm-pistol/

Ruger Security 9 (25 yards) 2.63" to 3.15" - https://www.americanrifleman.org/articles/2018/1/2/tested-ruger-s-pc-carbine-and-security-9-pistol/

More pistol reviews and 25 yard groups at link.
 
Probably I'll keep my eye out for a CZ TS, P210, 9mm Elite, but these are all $2.5-3k choices.

Here is one that is in CA for less.

https://www.gunbroker.com/item/823043122


(NO affiliation with the seller)

Should note that the TS requires large hands...
Here is a pic of mine to wet your whistle.. ignore the dubious use of skate board tape though... :)

Quite positive that is a G17 below to give you a size perspective...
UYRrVnw.jpg
 
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I went to a 9mm 1911 because of arthritis. How accurate? Dunno. Prolly as accurate as any of the guns listed above, but it's all about shootability. The ergonomics and trigger, combined with low recoil make it my most accurate gun.
Shot some sub 5" groups at 50 yards recently. I used to be able to do that with a 357 or a USP 45, but the hands have gotten so bad I need the sub caliber Kimber to do that.
 
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