1911 Mysticism

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They say the 1911 is finicky, unreliable, and junk.

I own a number of M1911's chambered in a number of different cartridges (45 ACP, 40 S&W, 357 Sig, 38/45 Clerke, 38 Super, 9x19, 38 Special Wadcutters). Of the 45 ACP versions, including several that I built, most have been trouble free when using 230 grain FMJ ammunition. But hey, that is what the gun was designed for. I do run into functioning issues when trying to shoot some of the various self defense bullets on the market today. Also, I've had trouble getting the guns to work with 185 or 200 grain target semi-wadcutters except in my Gold Cup.

The only 45 ACP M1911 that I had problems with out of the box is an Auto Ordinance M1911. A little TLC made it 100% reliable with 230 FMJ ammunition. But, note, if you work on an M1911 without some good knowledge, you can make it more unreliable.

I have two M1911's chambered in 38/45 Clerke. They get a bit finicky at times but it usually can be traced to the magazine. There are several configurations of the magazine lips and followers and the bottle necked 38/45 Clerke cartridge has a preference.

I have a 1950's vintage Colt M1911 chambered in 38 Super. With an old "headspace on the rim" barrel, it would shoot 158 grain 38 caliber wadcutter loads with 100% reliability. Neat rounds, very accurate and the cases would drop in a pile just a couple feet from me. Recently, I installed a 38 Special wadcutter barrel in this gun and have been dabbling with cartridge. It is not as reliable as with the 38 Super barrels.

The M1911 design is over 100 years years old and it is still a mainstream design. Not many other pistol designs can claim that longevity.
 
They say the 1911 is finicky, unreliable, and junk.

What do you say?

Also, when they say these things, the appropriate joke of it a man's weapon and their being unqualified should ensue. Further, if they own a Glock, they should own a Sig. If they own a Sig they should have bought an FN.

If they can afford an FN then they should have bought a gym membership so they could carry a real man's gun.
Instead of trading plastic and more recoil for the ability to carry. Perhaps if they didn't need fourty rounds to connect...

That is the circle, if you are vicious about it they will be equalized and become your friends again.
Probably.
Some humans put much of their self into their weapon and take offense at range chiding. ;)
Some lack confidence and slight choices that are not theirs.
Some have genuine concern, but are oppressive in their efforts.

Really if any human has anything against a Nineteen Eleven, they don't know what they're talking about.
If Glock is perfection, then a Nineteen Eleven is perfect-er.:D
 
Ive got ocean front property in AZ too... :(

View attachment 853449

Why? Did the "big one" happen last night? :D


Nice Nighthawk. But for what it cost, Ill take 5 of the one above it. :thumbup:

My buddy has a couple of Nighthawks. Nice guns. For as hydraulic as the feel when you cycle them by hand, Im always amazed they work as well as they do. At least with ball ammo. Thats all Ive ever seen him shoot out of his.

I helped him clean his the first time he shot them, and when they are lubed, they seem to want to choke up and be hitchy, and can be a bitch to get back together. Things dont slide freely, which is something Im not used to with proper spec 1911's. Are yours like that too?

My only real bitch about them, other than the above and price, I think the triggers are a bit to light for actual use, but thats me. I prefer something around 5-6 pounds. Every time I shoot his, I have a number of "doubles" for the first couple of mags until I settle down. Im not used to having to think about the trigger when I shoot.

Ive got a similar pair to yours, but mine are more similar in cost. I paid about $500 NIB for each. The Colt has another $200 in it because of a rust/refinish issue.

I carried that Colt daily for a little over a decade back in the 90's, early 2000's, and have currently, have been carrying that 17 daily now for a little over 10 years as well. The Glock seems to be holding up a bit better in that respect though. :thumbup:

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What do you say?

Also, when they say these things, the appropriate joke of it a man's weapon and their being unqualified should ensue. Further, if they own a Glock, they should own a Sig. If they own a Sig they should have bought an FN.

If they can afford an FN then they should have bought a gym membership so they could carry a real man's gun.
Instead of trading plastic and more recoil for the ability to carry. Perhaps if they didn't need fourty rounds to connect...

That is the circle, if you are vicious about it they will be equalized and become your friends again.
Probably.
Some humans put much of their self into their weapon and take offense at range chiding. ;)
Some lack confidence and slight choices that are not theirs.
Some have genuine concern, but are oppressive in their efforts.

Really if any human has anything against a Nineteen Eleven, they don't know what they're talking about.
If Glock is perfection, then a Nineteen Eleven is perfect-er.:D
I think a lot of the problem is, many people only have what they have, and and know what they know, and thats about it. No real experience with anything else. But, their gun of choice, is what they have, so its got to be the "bestest"! :)

It took me about 30 years to break out of the diehard 1911 syndrome. Once I did, I found a lot of the long-held teaching and beliefs were a bit overblown and overstated, even downright wrong, and other things worked just as well, and often, better.

SIG's are what really led me astray, and Im still quite fond them, but Im also fond of Beretta's, HK's, Glocks, etc , and they are also things everyone should experience before they make a serious choice.

But, of course, as soon as you break away from "the cult" (and whatever the cult), youre a blasphemer and threat, and everyone pounces.

The biggest and bestest thing to come out of this for me has been, I've spent some quality time with most of the above, and learned a lot. I can pick any of them up, know what to expect from them, and shoot them well. These days, for daily use, I use Glocks. But I still shoot most of the others on a regular basis as well.

I highly recommend broadening your horizons if you havent already. Youll be a lot better off in the long run if you do.
 
I really love my 1911s, and they simple work very well. I really do love my P-365 these days, my CZ-97, and there are some nice pistols out there besides 1911s that work really well, but for a lot of people 1911s still work awfully well. Manufacturers still make them by the gazillions, so that says a lot.

There have always been and always will be 1911 haters. That has not changed in all the years I have read opinions on them.
I highly recommend broadening your horizons if you havent already. Youll be a lot better off in the long run if you do.
I agree with this in every aspect of life. :)
 
I helped him clean his the first time he shot them, and when they are lubed, they seem to want to choke up and be hitchy, and can be a bitch to get back together. Things dont slide freely, which is something Im not used to with proper spec 1911's. Are yours like that too?

Not at all. I run em all hard and treat them the same as my plastic fantastics.

I highly recommend broadening your horizons if you havent already. Youll be a lot better off in the long run if you do.


Got to agree with that.
 
I have been more accurate with a RIA 1911 and a snub nose .38 than any other handgun I’ve dealt with; including several Glocks. The 1911 is understandable. The snub .38, not so much. Anyways, my buddies say I need a hi cap 9mm; but I don’t necessarily want one. They say the 1911 is finicky, unreliable, and junk. I get that the platform was designed to run with 240 grn FMJ, but if it had been finicky or unreliable, the US Military would not have used it. So... what gives ?
Like my Dad used to say “your buddies are idiots”. Never thought I’d get to use that.
 
It makes m laugh when people refer to the 1911 as “a man’s gun”. 1911 Fan Boys. Ya gotta laugh at ‘em :rofl:

I am a man. I have owned a couple 1911s. Great guns if you like tinkering. Oh, my 1911s were Colts. I loved my 1911s until I bought a Glock. Then I bought a couple more. Sold one 1911. Gave the other to my daughter. Now she has my “man’s gun”.

Mr. Mosin, if you like 1911s and your S&W snubbies then that is what you should pursue. I love S&W revolvers as well. But, don’t scrimp on the 1911. Get a good one. Colt, Kimber, Ruger, Les Baer are all good choices.

Funny thing is, for me, I bought my 1911s because I listened to my friends. They were never the gun for me. It took a few years to figure that out.

Go with what you like. Tell your friends to pound sand...but smile when you do. They mean well.
 
It makes me laugh when people refer to the (insert any make of firearm here) as “a man’s, operator's, law enforcement approved, properly serious about carry or defense gun”. (Random object) Fan Boys. Ya gotta love ‘em, becuause they fund a lot of the good pistol companies profits, which I also love.

Is more what I meant. ;)

Don't let it get to you, or him rather. Just a human thing that sucks that we do to each other.
It used to bug me as well. But, no other human has my hands, or brain, or history, and definitely esthetic preferences.
Let alone wallet.
I find a well placed hole in just the right spot, from farther than they can do it, usually places crow where it needs to be...;)

It's a continuum. There's always a bigger fish...
The Nineteen Elevens may be the Great White Shark, but they can't catch anything in the brackish water off the Mississippi Delta. They are too big for the Barrier reefs, where the faster Mako and Nerf shark delictably dine.
But if one is talking about sharks, they would be remiss to leave out the gorilla in the room.

If you think make and model is bad for pistols, wait til we talk about AR parts...:evil:
 
I have been more accurate with a RIA 1911 ...

... my buddies say I need a hi cap 9mm; but I don’t necessarily want one. They say the 1911 is finicky, unreliable, and junk.
As many others posted, you really do need a different group of "buddies". :rofl:

I started out shooting USPSA with Norinco 1911 heavily fortified with Wilson Combat parts and 2.5 lb trigger job i did with hand fitted beavertail that took me 4 hours and Sig P226.

Having worked with 1911s in the Army, I have learned to appreciate the platform that COULD be made into a nice shooting pistol in most aspects.
  • It FEELS heavy and solid and good in hand (compared to polymer pistols)
  • It CAN have a nice clean trigger that breaks like it should (For many people, this alone produces smaller groups we call accuracy).
  • It CAN have nice tight lock up that many polymer pistols lack and this is the source of consistency in producing accuracy.
  • It CAN have a nice hammer release that won't move the front sight when many polymer pistols jerk the front sight around when the striker is released (The criteria for match grade pistol)
When people say 1911s can be finicky, unreliable and junk I tell them people who don't like fish or wine may just have tasted bad fish or wine. :eek:

There are 1911s that are not finicky, reliable and not junk right out of the box. My railed Sig 1911 with tightest chamber I have shot with no leade and sharpest start angle of rifling (to reduce gas leakge) has reliably fed SWC reloads using various magazines right out of the box. Now with over 10,000 round count, none of the parts broke and has continued to run reliably.

But when I shot the same practice match stage with faster time than P226 using a Glock 17 I never shot before, I was in disbelief. How can this "cheap" piece of plastic shoot as accurate yet faster than P226 that I was very proficient with? To make long story short, Glocks became my USPSA pistols.
  • Do Glocks have good feel in hand? No
  • Do Glocks have nice clean trigger like 1911? No
  • Do Glocks have nice tight lock up like 1911? No
  • Do Glocks have nice striker release that won't move the front sight? Yes, but you have to go through many pistols before you find one. :D
But Glocks are not finicky, reliable and certainly not junk with surface hardened barrel and slide that I shot over 100,000 rounds in my first Glock 17 and it still maintained accuracy to the point where another match shooter bought it from me and continued to shoot matches. :eek:

So I have best of both worlds. I have both 1911 and Glocks. Simple.

And I like cheaper 9mm and have 40-9 conversion barrels for all of my 40S&W Glocks and now converting my 45ACP Sig 1911 to 9mm with Fusion Firearms complete slide.

Life is good.
 
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Oh yes you're one of the elusive few fanboys that have glocks that run millions of rounds without malfunctions...

I still own 5 Glocks, owned 10, not a single one is malfunction free... I sure as heck wish I could find the one the internet clamors about :).

Not really a knock on Glock as the only guns I own that are not malfunction fee simply have not been shot enough...
<----owns more 1911's than he does Glocks.

Guess what guns I mail back to the factory for repair most often? 1911's by far.
In eleven years I've returned exactly ONE Glock to the Glock factory. The number of 1911's (Les Baer, Kimber, Springfield, Ruger, Sig, S&W, Dan Wesson among them) numbers in the dozens. That's REPAIR, not trigger jobs, melts, add new sights or other customization.
Being that I'll transfer 20-30 Glocks for every 1911...…...that's telling.

Whether Glocks are malfunction free isn't the argument. The fact that Glocks require less maintenance, are more reliable over tens of thousands of rounds and replacement parts are cheap. Not to mention parts can be replaced by a certified Glock armorer or a third grader who watched a YouTube video. All you need is a punch or jumbo paper clip.

1911's repairs, on the other hand, require the skills of an experienced pistolsmith. "Drop in" parts? Yeah, if that works for you then you are fortunate.
 
So I finally got around to running some Glocks this year. There were 2 surprises. The first surprise was that they were more accurate than I expected. The second, they are not malfunction proof. My 42 had ftes even after I swapped the extractor and recoil spring assembly. My 19s and 26 would occasionally fail to ignite primers that other guns would ignite just fine.

The conclusion of my little experiment, at least for me was that all handguns will encounter stoppages, and that I wanted something that I could easily get back into action when issues occurred. I chose to go back to 1911s after about a 6 year hiatus from the type knowing just how easy they are to work on. So far, I've just had to tune a couple of extractors but many other designs do not allow for this. Moreover, the market exist for 1911s that one can purchase an example assembled by a competent smith to perform. This is not the case with many other designs either.

Lastly, there is a pride of ownership many people falsely attribute to price. I attribute it to a love for the experience. A Mustang and Camry can be comparable in price and serve the same role as daily commuters. However, both produce different experiences when filling this role. Will the Camry be more reliable? Theoretically yes, we need to see a few more with the new transmission get up in mileage. Will the Mustang break? I don't know, but I do know it would be fun to try and there would be some pocket of the internet documenting not only failures, but fixes it issues arose. I also know I could buy a Bullit, or a Shelby and take it straight to the track.
 
Guess what guns I mail back to the factory for repair most often? 1911's by far.
In eleven years I've returned exactly ONE Glock to the Glock factory.

I can only base my opinions on my personal experiences. Ive returned A G19 G4 and received a new gun. Do I win anything?:evil:
(was effectively a single shot and purchased when G4 was first dropped)

Whether Glocks are malfunction free isn't the argument.

That was a specific statement I was replying too. They all fail you just have to shoot enough to get to that point.
Not to mention parts can be replaced by a certified Glock armorer or a third grader who watched a YouTube video.
You can say that again.... Probably the reason Ill spend 10k on a custom 1911 but refuse to pay more than 500 for a "Gucci" Glock.
 
That was a specific statement I was replying too. They all fail you just have to shoot enough to get to that point.
And thats both the truth, and the rub. :thumbup:

Most everything is going to have a stoppage at some point, and for whatever reason. "If you actually shoot them enough".

And, there are a lot of people who have things, that dont get out all that much (even if ever) and dont have a clue. Yet, the gun they have, is "perfect".

Ive picked up a number of used Glocks recently, for really good prices, that were basically NIB.

One, a nice DE Gen 4 17, was literally a month old, sold NIB by the shop I got it from the month before. The owner complained of constant BTF, and they sent it back to Glock. They rebuilt the slide (the list was still in the box), sent it back, and the boy brought it back the day after he got it back and said it was still doing it and they didnt fix it. Traded it on something else.

I bought it a day or two later, at a considerable discount, and have shot close to a thousand rounds through it at this point, and not one piece of brass has come anywhere near my face. :rofl:

Ive bought a number of Glocks off this boy the past few years, and a couple of them still had the anti-seize on/in the rails, and barely, if any smiley or finish wear on the barrel. All of them were dirty too. And the most Ive paid for any of them, has been $400, and most were in the $350-400 range. A lot of them came with a bunch of mags and decent holsters too, making the deals even sweeter. EBay pays well too. :)


You can say that again.... Probably the reason Ill spend 10k on a custom 1911 but refuse to pay more than 500 for a "Gucci" Glock.
As above, the "improved" Glocks are often a great deal too. You get them cheap (one guys "improvements" are another guys "Gucci Junk"), and the parts to make them right (restored to factory) are cheap, and easily done by yourself. Plus, you sell the stuff you took off on EBay, and the cost of the gun just keeps getting cheaper and cheaper. :)

And if I was delirious enough to spend 10K on a 1911, Id double down, and by another MP40 or something similar! For that kind of money, might as well have something "fun". :D
 
"When people say 1911's can be finicky, unreliable and junk I tell them people who don't like fish or wine may just have tasted bad fish or wine."

I am an English teacher and semi-professional writer. I must say, that was sublime. :)


I had one lemon 1911 that malfunctioned a lot, because of poor QC. The other five or more have been fine.

I've owned three Glocks. I don't recall any malfunctions.

I don't see either 1911's or Glocks as being better or worse than each other; they are just different tools for different jobs.

My Glocks can hold a lot of boolits, and shoot them with average-ish combat accuracy.

My 1911's generally hold fewer boolits, and generally shoot them with better than average accuracy.

They feel different in the hand; some people like chocolate, some like vanilla.

All of my examples of both are reliable, and I would be grateful to have any of them in a SD situation.

I am one of those dudes who likes Ford and Chevy. :)
 
I am an English teacher and semi-professional writer. I must say, that was sublime. :)

What kind of stuff do you write?

I'm surprised that you're an English teacher when you can't spell bullets correctly. :eek:
 
I think all of yall are crazy Ill just use a revolver, but what I use has nothing to do with your options. Buy what you want, life is too short to worry about what the other guy is carrying but it isnt too short to carry something you dont like.
LOL. I just got this a couple of weeks back. :thumbup:

And its a 45acp too, but its only a 6 shooter. It shoots OK I guess for DAO. I think I can live with it. :)

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