Deanimator
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There's no due process in a court with a judge???
Red Flag Law
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The persons that proposed the law say it would have prevented the South Park Elementary shootings as that person was visited by the police over 40 times. They represented that would be proof 'beyond a reasonable doubt'
The defendants do not present evidence in FISA. They are 'represented' by the prosecution.
george29
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Decided by....a Jury of your peers. No thanks. I've seen what "my peers" look like.
You're beyond me with the tort thing, I'm not a lawyer and I don't play one on TV
All I know is IMHO OJ got off with murder, I didn't really follow it that closely. But I always buy my gloves 2 sizes too small now My peers probably wouldn't make it through the trial ... at least not without beer and burgers (and pizza )
Middletown
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btw I'm pretty thick skinned and have a good sens of humor LOL
As am I!
Yo Mama
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We do actually chemically castrate sex offenders.
Yo Mama
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Red flag laws would be great if families were able to recognize a loved one being a danger to themselves or to others. Currently in every state if you are concerned about somebody being a danger a quick call to the police department does the same thing. I am concerned that families with dangerous members will not be recognized through the red flag system as those families are usually extremely dysfunctional so how would we be able to expect them to recognize a situation warranting police intervention to begin with?
@george29 about this tort thing.
One thing I thought of since I started the thread is the potential SWATTING argument ... you know, report folks for a joke or prank or revenge.
I then assumed the Police would take a dim view of any of that. But maybe a counter suit for defamation or damages or something.
Would that fit in with the tort thing ?
Frivolous lawsuits ?
One thing I thought of since I started the thread is the potential SWATTING argument ... you know, report folks for a joke or prank or revenge.
I then assumed the Police would take a dim view of any of that. But maybe a counter suit for defamation or damages or something.
Would that fit in with the tort thing ?
Frivolous lawsuits ?
george29
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Red Flag Law = Thought Control
I don't like you so I SWAT you (yeah it's a thing). SWAT knocks down your door and kills you (yes it's happened). Police may or may not apologize, city may or may not pay your relatives. You're still dead because of a Red Flag Law that was made legal through common law but goes against the 2nd, 4th, 5th. 6th, 7th and 8th Amendments. There's your slippery slope. Common law just means whatever it is interpreted as, as opposed to Constitutional Law which actually protects you.
BTW, I wrote this before I read your comment so we are both thinking the same thing.
I don't like you so I SWAT you (yeah it's a thing). SWAT knocks down your door and kills you (yes it's happened). Police may or may not apologize, city may or may not pay your relatives. You're still dead because of a Red Flag Law that was made legal through common law but goes against the 2nd, 4th, 5th. 6th, 7th and 8th Amendments. There's your slippery slope. Common law just means whatever it is interpreted as, as opposed to Constitutional Law which actually protects you.
BTW, I wrote this before I read your comment so we are both thinking the same thing.
And that has happened in many of these shootings. I understand that others may also report to the police, such as school guidance counselors. Not sure about the particular details of the proposed law in this respect as it was not discussed.
Yo Mama
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In the child safety welfare system this is very common to get back at other family members they will make a report against them as payback.
Yo Mama
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Really to me a lot of this harkens back to Tarasoff v. Regents of the University of California (1976!) in that professionals have consistently flagged people and reported but no action was taken. So reporting in and of itself does nothing. What responses are people ok with? In my experience it's almost impossible to have somebody held for 72 hour mental health evaluation.
No, due to some factors which I won't discuss here (read the first line in the thread) I believe that:
1. I just saw the interview outlining the proposal
2. Laws like these are inevitable
3. They may just stave of more draconian measures
4. I can accept it if there is true due process, although in a perfect world I would not be for it.
5. Nothing wrong with stirring the pot (as long as you pause 2 secs after every 10 stirs ... sorry that was from the hi-cap mag ban thread
)Caveat, I bought a bunch of hi cap magazines before I posted this
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FROGO207
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The way l see it.........you are in bed and someone beats your door down and tries to assault you in your bedroom at 0 dark thirty. Are you awake enough to NOT point your SD piece at someone with a badge because your neighbor is mad at you mowing your lawn at 7AM every Sunday morning and waking him up? Tells authorities he "sees you running around inside your house with guns in your hand daily and you seemed agitated a lot lately " kind of revenge. That seems a lot of shady thinking in this proposal. Guess it would be a good way to remove us one at a time though.
Never mind due process in court at a later date.
Never mind due process in court at a later date.
The way l see it.........you are in bed and someone beats your door down and tries to assault you in your bedroom at 0 dark thirty. Are you awake enough to NOT point your SD piece at someone with a badge because your neighbor is mad at you mowing your lawn at 7AM every Sunday morning and waking him up? Tells authorities he "sees you running around inside your house with guns in your hand daily and you seemed agitated a lot lately " kind of revenge. That seems a lot of shady thinking in this proposal. Guess it would be a good way to remove us one at a time though.
Yes there is the swatting thing.
I myself am not worried about this but the swatting is a real issue.
yeah, wouldn't happen to me personally ... not getting into a P-ing match here because, well, OPSEC
It's not because I'm big and bad but other reasons.
However, I do see swatting as a real problem with this.
Ironicaintit
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I am against red flag laws, even given the "no further laws" daydream.
How could anybody with any sense of "Liberty" (watered down today though it may be) be willing to cede a truly fundamental right, in order to pacify the whims of somebody who disagrees with you?
Not only is the 2nd amendment violated there, but you can also expect to be removed from your own home, your belongings all rummaged through and your entire estate "tossed" in the search for any undocumented firearms. it is likely that you will also have to submit passwords to all online accounts so "they" can determine your state of mind. and that is likely a best case scenario.
now your pristine collection and sentimental heirlooms are in the hands of people who could not care less about taking care in their handling.
All on the pretext that somebody you know feels unsafe (truly or falsely)
No, i don't think so.
Ya know what would save lives? Returning fire to stop the threat. I'll support that instead.
How could anybody with any sense of "Liberty" (watered down today though it may be) be willing to cede a truly fundamental right, in order to pacify the whims of somebody who disagrees with you?
Not only is the 2nd amendment violated there, but you can also expect to be removed from your own home, your belongings all rummaged through and your entire estate "tossed" in the search for any undocumented firearms. it is likely that you will also have to submit passwords to all online accounts so "they" can determine your state of mind. and that is likely a best case scenario.
now your pristine collection and sentimental heirlooms are in the hands of people who could not care less about taking care in their handling.
All on the pretext that somebody you know feels unsafe (truly or falsely)
No, i don't think so.
Ya know what would save lives? Returning fire to stop the threat. I'll support that instead.
Deanimator
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And the proponents will say that the victim had it coming for having guns in the first place... even if the cops go to the wrong address and shoot somebody who's on the board of VPC.
Deanimator
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Even if you're "SWATed", the odds are your $50,000 American Eagle Luger will be tossed in a pile of other guns and have an evidence number applied with an engraving pen.
The response of the the police will be, "So? You got it back. If you don't like it, turn it in at a gun 'buy back' for $50.00."
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