Would Universal Background Checks be acceptable if no firearm information was required?

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SharpDog said:
They will spend millions, just look at what they will spend on Medicare for all, Eliminating Fossil Fuels, Forgiving Student Loans, etc.
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And it still won't work because the fed will run it. There was a push not long ago to fix NICS but I think people in congress came to their senses and it died. Number 1), the cost was too great, and 2), it wouldn't have fixed a system that relies on states giving their data to the FBI. The states that run their own checks use NICS but they also use their own databases.

One problem I see on the horizon is medical records. In this state you now have to sign a medical history waiver to purchase a semi-auto rifle and the state can then access your medical history. Anyone who does that IMO is a fool. There's a reason your medical records can't be accessed by just anyone. HIPAA.

Any federal background check will have to include accessing medical records or it won't mean a thing as a tool to restrict looneys from access to firearms. Everyone knows this, including LE. I just saw a post on another forum from a cop that addressed that. Once LE has to deal with a mental case with a firearm it's too late for a good outcome. Somebody dies.
 
BSA1 said:
I will ask this question again;

What am I getting in exchange for surrendering my current right to buy, sell and trade firearms for total Government permission to buy, sale, trade and own a firearm?
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Tommygunn said:
A little gold star on your tax forms.:evil:
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I already have one on my drivers license so I can travel by air.
 
Criminals, tyrants, terrorists and madmen won't conduct any type of background check on one another. It's disheartening to say the least that on a gun forum there are people that would even consider any gun control as reasonable especially after the decades or more of evidence that gun control doesn't make us safer only the bad people are made safer since they don't abide by infringements which gives them the upper hand. Yes it'll probably be forced upon us at some point but no reason to give them incentive by even thinking about agreeing to more gun control. Government could have gone with something like this years ago: https://www.gunlaws.com/BIDSvNICS.htm but instead they chose to go with something that would register gun owners which should tell everyone what the end goal eventually is.
 
S&W620 said:
Simply put, if gun owners want to keep others from attacking gun rights, they’re going to need to provide an alternative solution and put a plan in place to address it.

Doing nothing won’t work forever.
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Simply won't work, they just keep adding to it, you cannot appease them. Either you have not been around long enough to see how the antis operate, or you are laboring under the misconception this would actually appease the antis, or.......
 
shoobe01 said:
a huge black market would emerge overnight of people do refuse, or simply are unaware of the requirement, and do FTF transfers anyway.
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If so, it would be the same black marketeers who are selling guns illegally right now.

In every used gun/private sale I've been privy to in the past many years, the seller required the buyer to put his name, address, d.o.b. and driver license number on a "bill of sale" which the seller retained. In some cases, the seller photographed the buyer's driver license. It is becoming very difficult to purchase a gun without a paper trail. Perhaps this is different in gangland Chicago, but this is my observation in heartland America.
 
D.B. Cooper said:
If so, it would be the same black marketeers who are selling guns illegally right now.

In every used gun/private sale I've been privy to in the past many years, the seller required the buyer to put his name, address, d.o.b. and driver license number on a "bill of sale" which the seller retained. In some cases, the seller photographed the buyer's driver license. It is becoming very difficult to purchase a gun without a paper trail. Perhaps this is different in gangland Chicago, but this is my observation in heartland America.
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Not here in Texas. We work on the handshake, along with a glance at their LTC.
 
Agree, "DB." Mentioned a few weeks back separately, I know a number of folks — who are very hard into 2A rights preservation — who will only do transfers through FFLs, in or out. I had to do an FTF private sale not too long back and it was potentially sketchy so I made sure to have a friend about, and did the bill of sale with copied ID as you said.

We haven't talked about it here, but in the offing is getting courts or legislation to overturn liability restrictions. It may be that we're not far from being able (as manufacturers or individuals) to be sued for people who misuse firearms, or just steal our guns, or otherwise not doing our diligence that buyers are not prohibited persons.

That would change the calculus for us all. And, be an interesting discussion point; as annoying as lawyers and tort law is, should we not take personal responsibility for storage, care, and disposition of our firearms as we say we must for their maintenance, carriage, and employment. Be sure of your target and what is beyond it.
 
Ryanxia said:
No. More. Compromise.
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What do you mean, "more"? More implies that there was prior, and compromise implies that when we gave something, we got something in return. If they want to offer something of equal value, I am open to discussion. Since they only want to take...
 
Elkins45 said:
It could be set up so that a potential buyer runs themselves through the system and the system prints out a ‘ticket’ that has the date, buyer’s name, address and a PROCEED instruction, along with a unique verification number. The seller could call up the automated system and verify the number is valid, then simply record that number as proof they had sold the gun legally.

If you bought a gun that had a 4473 after the date the law was enacted and no longer had it in your possession then you would need to have recorded a sale number in association with that gun. You don’t have to remember the buyer’s name and the system never knows what gun he is buying. This isn’t a perfect solution because there would still be a record of every request, but at least the details of the gun itself wouldn’t be attached to it like is the currently the case with the 4473 form.

I hate the idea of eliminating private sales. I hate it even more if they force me to pay an FFL to do the transfer. If they want to make background checks universal then they need to let us peons have access to the system.
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Then how would a kitchen table FFL make any money on the side? Kidding of course. It's a second income for many FFL's including at least one that post here. I also know one personally. I would be in favor of doing your own background/stolen weapons check for a private sale. Buy a firearm from someone who hasn't cleared himself and his firearm then your taking a chance of buying from a prohibited person with a stolen firearm. Those databases work because I can go on a state website and see who is licensed as a contractor, surveyor, etc. The state has made that information available to the public. There is no reason they couldn't make it available to someone who wants to run a check on themselves like looking at your own credit rating.

I would be in favor of eliminating FFL's for private transfers. They're just feeding at the gov't trough thru misguided state regulations. There's no reason a state LEO couldn't run those BC's for a small fee. The FFL's in this state have to contact local LE to run the check anyway. If we get a Nat'l UBC the fed needs to overhaul the system completely and allow the general public to access it. An FFL doesn't get any usable private information out of it anyway. They aren't LEO's.
 
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badkarmamib said:
What do you mean, "more"? More implies that there was prior, and compromise implies that when we gave something, we got something in return. If they want to offer something of equal value, I am open to discussion. Since they only want to take...
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Exactly. I've yet to read what they are offering up for their part of the "compromise".
 
Walkalong said:
Simply won't work, they just keep adding to it, you cannot appease them. Either you have not been around long enough to see how the antis operate, or you are laboring under the misconception this would actually appease the antis, or.......
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Oh, my bad, I’m new to this. Eyeroll.gif

I bet you’ll convince them they’re wrong tho.
 
I completely understand this forum in general serves as an echo chamber for pro gun people to pat each other on the back for making the most pro gun statement, but that’s simply not how the majority of this country views the situation.

We can continue on with the same old “It ain’t the gun” cliches or we can address this head on.

Or we can continue to spew the same slippery slope logical fallacies and have the overwhelming percentage of voters disagree with most of what we say.

I mean, when most REPUBLICANS want changes to current laws, it’s a matter of inevitability.
 
larryh1108 said:
Exactly. I've yet to read what they are offering up for their part of the "compromise".
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When 60-80% of the country wants something, they don’t need to offer anything. They’ll wait until the situation is amiable, then they’ll take it.

If our answer continues to be do nothing, they’ll dismiss us and do what makes sense to them. Good, bad or indifferent.
 
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