Is 40 S&W dead or not?

MikeInOr said:

The MAIN reason I DESPISE .40's is the fricken .40 brass perfectly fits inside a .45 case and a 9mm case perfectly fits inside a .40 case. With a little bit of walnut shell media between the two cases and they are practically bonded together.

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Try adding 45 brass first, then 40 brass and then 9mm and you won't have cases sliding inside each other.

bds said:

Try adding 45 brass first, then 40 brass and then 9mm and you won't have cases sliding inside each other.

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Yep. The key is to get the big cases full of media before they suck in the smaller cases. Media doesn't move much (at least in dry/vibe tumbling) inside the cases (which is why they retain that lovely carbon lining that makes the expander die so smooth to operate on them)... once the media gets in there, it blocks the smaller case.

Until then, the bigger cases are basically Charybdis.

bds said:

Try adding 45 brass first, then 40 brass and then 9mm and you won't have cases sliding inside each other.

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ATLDave said:

Yep. The key is to get the big cases full of media before they suck in the smaller cases. Media doesn't move much (at least in dry/vibe tumbling) inside the cases (which is why they retain that lovely carbon lining that makes the expander die so smooth to operate on them)... once the media gets in there, it blocks the smaller case.

Until then, the bigger cases are basically Charybdis.

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That makes a lot of sense... thank you.

I don't reload .40's so my problem is the .40 cases that sneak into my 9mm / .45 cases at the range from friends that shoot .40s. I have acquired enough "sneak in" .40 brass over the years that I could almost justify buying a .40 just to use up my .40 brass bucket. LOL!

My P08, P38, C96 Broomhandle, Webleys, Tokarevs, Nagaunts, Lahti, etc. are all guns I enjoy shooting immensely... none of them ever came in a .40 version which is also a lot of the reason I stick to 9mm and .45 instead of .40.

A year or two back the local Sportsman's warehouse had the Kahr CM40's onsale for a ridiculously low price... I really should have picked one up. I like hard hitting guns in small packages for carrying while hiking / camping.... which the CM40 would have been perfect for and it is smaller than my XDs in .45. I bought a Browning 1911-380 instead of the CM40... and I LOVE my 1911-380 so I am not kicking myself too hard.

No guarantees on .40 range brass you pick up though. No telling how many times the bulge has been pressed out of it. Best to leave them where you see them so guys like me can dispose of them.

MikeInOr said:

I have acquired enough "sneak in" .40 brass over the years that I could almost justify buying a .40 just to use up my .40 brass bucket. LOL!

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Do it.

Get a 40S&W Glock police trade-in and get a 9mm conversion barrel for cheap range fun.

papaairbear said:

No guarantees on .40 range brass you pick up though. No telling how many times the bulge has been pressed out of it. Best to leave them where you see them so guys like me can dispose of them.

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Hey now. It's not nice to be spreading wrong information on the web.

https://www.luckygunner.com/labs/self-defense-ammo-ballistic-tests/
Lets set a goal of .70 expansion and at least 12'' of penetration.
Well, so that more 9mm loads qualify we will make that .69 consistent expansion.
In Lucky Gunner tests there are only 5 loads in 9mm that meet that criteria compared to 13 loads in 40
I'm willing to sacrifice 2 rounds (Glock 15 vs 23, 17 vs 22, or 34 vs 35) in exchange for slightly bigger bullets.

In a state with a stupid (worthless) mag limit where Glock 19 and 23 are both restricted to 10 rounds, 40 probably has even more appeal.

Don't own one, don't want one. I judge a rounds popularity by the amount of range brass on the ground. There was a time when 40 S&W was number one or two. I was not a happy camper as 40 S&W cases have no value to me. But, 9mm is currently the champ in discarded brass by a large margin. I would say the number of 40 S&W cases is now less than the number of 45 ACP cases I pick up. I think 40 S&W is now about third in the discard championship.

I miss the days when I could pick up coffee can fulls of 38 Special brass. Three fifty seven brass was always scarce, but for some reason, 38 Special was left on the ground. Sad, sad, sad. The 38 Special was such a great round.

Slamfire said:

The 38 Special was such a great round.

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Yeah, let's pour one out for the .38 special, a round that no longer exists and cannot be used by those who like it. Truly it is dead.

Nope, 200 rounds down range this morning...back to the bench to load up some more...now if Jake could get some 165 FMJ's in house online soon, would help fuel the fire

Hi...
I agree with the statements about the nesting of brass in tumblers.
My son and I shoot a lot of semi auto pistol rounds in 9mm, .40, 10mm and .45ACP.
So I get to tumble a lot of brass.
I separate my brass before tumbling to avoid the nesting issue.
I do the same with revolver brass. It just makes life easier if I separate before tumbling. I am going to separate it eventually so it makes sense to separate it before tumbling.
I am contemplating purchasing one of those brass separator systems to make the job a bit faster and easier.
I am also considering buying a fourth tumbler so I can tumble four calibers at the same time. I will most probably buy the large Dillon unit along with their large media/brass separator. The Dillon is the only one I have seen that has an actual metal hinge mechanism. I have worn out two separators with the cheap plastic hinges and would like something more durable.

Slamfire said:

I miss the days when I could pick up coffee can fulls of 38 Special brass. Three fifty seven brass was always scarce, but for some reason, 38 Special was left on the ground. Sad, sad, sad. The 38 Special was such a great round.

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I do too. I remember the days of the police range pickup brass. I had buckets of it, still have. The last time I loaded some of it, I was getting five to six inch groups at twenty-five yards. Does fifty plus loadings hurt brass, when it's light target loads? I thought it might.

I bought some new Starline, and my groups shrank back to where they ought to be, less than two inches consistently. It seems a sin to have to buy .38 Special brass. What's the world coming to?

40 S&W? The last time I went to a reclamation place to buy lead they wanted to sell me a garbage bag full of 40 S&W for a nickle a pound. I couldn't think what I could do with it. The cartridge itself doesn't seem so bad in terms of ballistics, and it uses the same bullet as the wonderful old .38 WCF. I just don't like the guns it comes in much.

CDW4ME said:

In a state with a stupid (worthless) mag limit where Glock 19 and 23 are both restricted to 10 rounds, 40 probably has even more appeal.

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Thank goodness, federal judge Benitez made large capacity magazines in California legal during the "freedom week" and us Californians can now keep large capacity magazines in our pistols. https://www.thehighroad.org/index.php?threads/happy-days-in-ca.849757/page-2#post-11098192

My nephew bought a .40 S&W Beretta police trade-in to protect his bride and their young family.
There's nothing wrong with that, is there?
Is the OP anticipating that my nephew won't be able to buy .40 S&W ammunition to train with?

375supermag said:

Hi...
I agree with the statements about the nesting of brass in tumblers.
My son and I shoot a lot of semi auto pistol rounds in 9mm, .40, 10mm and .45ACP.
So I get to tumble a lot of brass.
I separate my brass before tumbling to avoid the nesting issue.
I do the same with revolver brass. It just makes life easier if I separate before tumbling. I am going to separate it eventually so it makes sense to separate it before tumbling.
I am contemplating purchasing one of those brass separator systems to make the job a bit faster and easier.
I am also considering buying a fourth tumbler so I can tumble four calibers at the same time. I will most probably buy the large Dillon unit along with their large media/brass separator. The Dillon is the only one I have seen that has an actual metal hinge mechanism. I have worn out two separators with the cheap plastic hinges and would like something more durable.

Click to expand...

I have the large Dillon media separator... it is a little awkward being kind of big but it has done a great job for me for 20+ years now.

My Dillon large tumbler died after 20 years of use. The motor bearing froze. Luckily I have a really old model and the motor has ball bearings. I replaced the bearings and the motor is running again but a little more finicky than it was. The motor case wasn't really made to open easily and the alignment isn't as perfect as it was before changing the bearings.

Far from dead. There are to many pistols out there for that to happen. With all the police department trade ins available cheap it will keep growing.

It is easy to reload, and being a 10mm fan, there is always projectiles in my reloading room.

My only complaint about 40 is the cost of ammunition. In reality 40 costs now hasn't really went up that much from 9 or 10 years ago. The thing is 9mm has gotten cheaper. So it is cheaper to shoot 9. Personally I like 40. I bought a new pistol chambered for it this year. In a compact or larger pistol the recoil isn't bad at all for me. I own 2 ..40's. One is my carry pistol & I don't plan on changing anytime soon.

.40 S&W has lost some popularity, and will likely continue to lose some, but realistically with all the .40S&W guns they've made you'll NEVER have any trouble finding the ammo.

Personally when I'm buying a gun I PREFER 9mm, but if I find a .40S&W for a good deal I won't pass it up.

Back in 2012 and 2013 there were a bunch of Federal ammo contracts released for millions of rounds of .40 S&W for various Federal agencies. Many of those agencies have switched to 9mm.
This has made me wonder if at some point a whole boatload of .40 S&W will be surplused and sold at auctions which will mean a boon to those that have and shoot .40 S&W guns?

I don’t own a .40 though I would likes 10mm one day.

You can shoot 40S&W in 10mm and could always get 10mm to 40 conversion barrel.

the .40 S&W is not dead at my house, a police trade in that was in ex condition inside and out bought for 275.00 with a ex 14 shot magazine, I bought 250 round bulk Remington packs of .40 165 gr HB to shoot for brass and use good defence loads for every day carry. not much difference between 1911 and glock 22 in size or weight(loaded).

The surplus Glock Model 22 with a 9mm drop-in barrel and G17 magazine is a great idea. I did it, too.

IMHO there is nothing fantastic or horrible about 40 caliber. It's a fairly common service caliber. It puts decent-sized holes in things. In a good pistol it will go bang eery tme. What's not to like?

"I like hard hitting guns in small packages for carrying while hiking / camping..."

I got this for $200 or something stupid like that. The felt recoil is less than I expected.

We have this discussion every 3 months... no, it's not dead, it's just been usurped by the cooler 9mm. The .40 is like that kid who use to score chewing tobacco and those National Geographic editions with nude tribal women from his senile grandpa, but was quickly upstaged by the new kid in school from California whose parents are dead and lives with his aunt and uncle who are in their 20s and buy him cigarettes and Playboys.

.40 is still okay, but not quite 9mm.

I said years ago I wasn't going to get another .40, but I looking pretty hard at used Kahrs in .40. I may even go with a steel frame MK40 just because I feel given the small size, the extra weight is worth the trade to mitigate recoil.

I wouldn’t mind picking up a 40 cal P30. Or maybe a CZ TSO.

Funny you started this thread. I have been looking at police trade in 40 cals at Aim Surplus. They have Gen 3s and Gen 4s for the same $299. I am not sure which one is the better one to get. I have read several times that the Gen 3 was a really good version. But have also read there is no such thing as a bad Glock choice. They have used model 22 mags for $14 each. I am tempted.

Buying a 40 cal would mean stocking new ammo, dies, brass and bullets. And I guess you can't shoot lead in the Glock barrel. Maybe if its powder coated. But I haven't bought a new gun in like a month now and I'm starting to itch all over and that means a new gun is in my future. I just don't know which one yet.

My BIL is retiring from the fire dept and just got his Law Enforcement certification so he can be an arson investigator and the gun he had to buy was a brand new Glock 22 Gen 5 in 40 cal. So some departments are still using it. I think its a great round and feel switching back to 9mm is a step in the wrong direction. But I do own three 9mm pistols so its not too bad of a round.

Tallball said:

Are there still a ton of police trade-in 40 caliber duty pistols out there? I got some screaming deals on several within the past year or two. My Glock Model 22 and Sig P229 were about $300 OTD apiece, including the box and one or two spare magazines.

I see plenty of new 40 caliber pistols for sale, and plenty of 40 caliber ammo as well. Academy must have ten different varieties.

It doesn't seem anywhere near dead to me.

This was my best deal. A place was Gunbroker auctioning a bunch of surplus/turn-in Beretta 96's. When they got towards the bottom of the barrel, they put one up that was a Frankenstein pistol: an American DAO slide on top of a regular Italian frame. No one wanted to bid on it. I won it for a $149 bid. It's a great shooter (DA/SA due to the Italian trigger assembly). I don't care that it doesn't have a safety or decocker. I got it about a year ago. It's a nice pistol that I paid next to nothing for.

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That’s a sweet deal