Iver Johnson top break .32?

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John Owens

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Yesterday I bought this gun at a gun show and was told it's a .32 but I'm not sure if it is and is it black powder or smokeless. I'd really like to shoot it but I don't want to ruin the gun or me.
On the butt is saysPat. June 16, 1896 Aug 25, 1896. The serial number under the grip is P75557
It would also be nice to know the actual age of the gun
 
Pictures would be better.

Hope you didn't spend too much on it.
 
Hopefully the pictures come through this time
 

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Use gunbroker's advanced search for completed items, sorted by bid count: high to low. You'll have to register if you haven't already.

Attached is a screen view of the Iver Johnson's sold. There are a lot more unsold Iver Johnson's. From what I saw, the smokeless versions sell for more than the BP.
 

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Looks like yours is a .38 S&W (not .38 Special) and yeah, looks like a black powder model.

The long barrel tho isn't too common. It's hard to put a value on guns like this, I see them on gunbroker and most of them don't get bids. Those that do are usually those in pristine condition and are smokeless variants. So a black powder model, especially a .38 model (ammo isn't as common as .32) that has any visual imperfection is usually under $100 if it sells. If the bore is pitted, if the timing or lockup is bad, it's pretty much worth nothing.

Hope you didn't spend too much.
 
Interesting that it would be a .38. The dealer said it was a .32 and just to check I tried to put a .38 in it to check the diameter and it would't even come close to fitting in the cylinder. The.38 bullet was way too big.
If it's black powder and shouldn't be shot I don't guess it really matters what caliber it is. Sounds like it's just wall art.
 
I say it looks like a .38 because the chambers look a lot bigger than .32.

If the .38 you tried didn't fit, it's because .38 Special is a lot longer than .38 S&W

SPLSW.jpg
 
The diameter is what I'm talking about. The hole isn't big enough around to put the bullet in. Length doesn't even come into play until I get something to go in at least part of the way.
 
The picture of the cylinder does look more like .38 S&W until you look at the recoil shield behind the cylinder that is further away from the camera. The camera is playing tricks on us.
I think it has to be a 32 S&W also. The owl facing forward, the leaf spring, the bolt cuts in the cylinder all indicate black powder.
At least it looks all original, meaning no one swapped parts on it.
 
Howdy

That is clearly a Black Powder Iver Johnson.

Around the turn of the Century Iver Johnson completely redesigned their revolver line. There were several design changes, as well as better steel was used, for Smokeless powder.

There are three telltale ways to differentiate an earlier BP Iver Johnson from a later one designed for Smokeless powder.

This is a Smokeless model. Notice the little owl on the grips faces backwards. Sometimes the wrong grip was substituted on a Black Powder Iver Johnson. Under the grips, the mainspring on a Smokeless model is a coil spring. Lastly, the shape of the slots on the cylinder that engage the bolt is the last indicator. There is a hard edge on both the top and bottom of the slot, meaning the bolt engages the slot on both sides of the slot.

IverJohnsonHammerless01.jpg




This is a Black Powder Iver Johnson. Notice the little owl on the grip is facing forward. If the grips are removed, the hammer spring is a leaf spring, not a coil spring. Lastly, the locking slots on the cylinder only have one hard edge. The bolt only engages the slots on one side, the hand is what prevents the cylinder from rotating backwards. The OP's photos show all three of these details for a Black Powder Iver Johnson.

2834897460102804856S600x600Q85.jpg
 
I was just looking at the gun again and realized I was talking about the wrong caliber bullets I tried. The 32.20 was too fat and the 30 carbine looked to be the perfect diameter but just too long as would be expected. Based on that I'm saying it's a 30 caliber gun. Does that still make it black powder?
 
Yes, it's still a Black Powder gun. On easy way to tell the difference is that the BP guns do not have the positive position lock on the cylinder. Here are three Smokeless Powder Top Break revolvers. See the rectangular slot in addition to the scalloped one? The Smokeless Powder cylinders will all have that rectangular slot where a pin fits for stronger lock.

large.jpg
And your gun is most likely a S&W 32 Short cartridge. The middle gun above shows a 32 S&W Short cylinder with a S&W 38 cartridge for size comparison.
 
The only one of those that might look similar to mine is the top one but I can't see the release for the top break.
Is a 32 short skinnier than a 32.20? I know I have to get one the right length also but right length doesn't even come into play until I find the right caliber. Once I figure it out I still probably won't be able to get any black powder bullets for it.
 
The only one of those that might look similar to mine is the top one but I can't see the release for the top break.
Is a 32 short skinnier than a 32.20? I know I have to get one the right length also but right length doesn't even come into play until I find the right caliber. Once I figure it out I still probably won't be able to get any black powder bullets for it.
Yes, the 32S&W is thinner than the 32-20 WCF.
 
So maybe it is a 32 S&W after all. Several have said it's black powder so, if that's the case, I'm not sure I could come with anything to shoot in it anyway and somebody said for me not to shoot it.
 
If the gun is in a shootable condition modern smokeless ammo will be fine. The 'smokeless model' thing was more about marketing than anything else, though the smokeless models are better quality, stronger mechanism etc. In the US .32 S&W cartridges were loaded with black powder right up until World War 2. After WW2 when they switched to smokeless the cartridges were actually less powerful than the BP cartridges, and operated in the same pressure range. I've shot smokeless in my antique .32s for years without any issues- but I carefully inspected the guns to make sure they were safe to fire! If you have any doubts you'll need to reload your own; if you use FFg black powder you literally can't get enough powder in the case to blow up the gun. Shorten a case by 1/10" and you will have a powder measure. Shorten the case 3/16" inches and you will have a nice, safe scoop for a Trail Boss load.
 
I know a gunsmith I'll have check it out. I no longer have reloading stuff. I gave it all away a few months ago. Mine was all the older manual equipment and I just don't want to spend the time. I can justify the money for shells easier than the time to reload. I've got so many different caliber pistols I'd go nuts trying to keep them all straight. If it comes down to it I know a few guys that I could probably get to reload some shells just for this but it sounds like I'll be ok the the 32 S&W. Thanks for all the help guys
 
I know a gunsmith I'll have check it out. I no longer have reloading stuff. I gave it all away a few months ago. Mine was all the older manual equipment and I just don't want to spend the time. I can justify the money for shells easier than the time to reload. I've got so many different caliber pistols I'd go nuts trying to keep them all straight. If it comes down to it I know a few guys that I could probably get to reload some shells just for this but it sounds like I'll be ok the the 32 S&W. Thanks for all the help guys
If you are worried check into the Cowboy Action folk. The 32S&W was a popular round during the move west and it's likely there are 32S&W loads designed for BP guns available. But I'd get the gun checked for timing and if that's correct give standard 32S&W a try.
 
Well I just checked the cylinder and it spins freely when it's all closed up and the hammer is down but it gets solid when I cock the hammer back in what I would call the firing position. I guess that answers the question about shooting it. Does this sound right for this gun. I'm thinking no. I'll get more info from the gunsmith tomorrow I hope. I don't think there's a gun show going on nearby that he would be at tomorrow.
 
Well I just checked the cylinder and it spins freely when it's all closed up and the hammer is down but it gets solid when I cock the hammer back in what I would call the firing position. I guess that answers the question about shooting it. Does this sound right for this gun. I'm thinking no. I'll get more info from the gunsmith tomorrow I hope. I don't think there's a gun show going on nearby that he would be at tomorrow.
Yes, that sounds right. Remember the little rectangular marks on the newer cylinders? That is a catch that keep the cylinder from free wheeling. The older guns did free wheel.
 
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