FWIW, Assault weapons now include all semi-automatic firearms

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boom boom

boom boom

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Assault weapons have now been defined as all nearly all semi-automatic weapons including pistols in a proposed bill with nearly 200 (198 as in text of bill) cosponsors so far (majority is 218) in the House. Magazine restrictions are also included in the bill, safe storage, etc. are in--presently existing firearms are grandfathered in. The bill was introduced in Feb. but just now has the text posted.

https://thehill.com/homenews/house/457323-assault-weapons-ban-picks-up-steam-in-congress

Text of bill is here
https://www.congress.gov/bill/116th-congress/house-bill/1296/text?r=13&s=1
 
Fine Figure of a Man said:
No offense to the OP, I hope this gets locked before someone here says "The guns people need are exempt".
Click to expand...

I think that this is the opening bid so that a "compromise" ban on just semi-automatic rifles might fly. Note, that they grandfather in existing firearms in the hopes that greed with lead to firearm owners acquiescence as the media and opinion leaders will say--"you don't need that". It will also decrease gun manufacturers--for example SKKY would have to go out of business as would Keltec as most, if not all, of their firearms are semi-automatic. The carveouts are reminiscent how the Mini 14 avoided the AWB at the cost of a lot of folks displeasure. The tactic is divide and conquer and the law here is similar to a protection racket--"nice business you have here--it would be a shame if something happened to it" Those current exceptions to the list could easily be removed without much notice if the company does not "play ball"

After all, look at the effect of the Hughes Amendment on full auto weapon prices. Anyone ready for a collectible 2019, pre-ban semi-auto AR made by PSA @5k?
 
boom boom said:
Note, that they grandfather in existing firearms in the hopes that greed will lead to firearm owners acquiescence
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The way I read H.R. 1296, it would not require registration of grandfathered AW's. However, they could only be transferred through FFL dealers, with all the formalities that that would entail.

Rep. Deutch's H.R. 1263, on the other hand, would move grandfathered AW's to the NFA as a separate category. Transfers would have to be approved by the ATF, and the processing backlog could be expected to last 5 or 10 years, unless the ATF is drastically restructured and expanded.
 
AlexanderA said:
The way I read H.R. 1296, it would not require registration of grandfathered AW's. However, they could only be transferred through FFL dealers, with all the formalities that that would entail.

Rep. Deutch's H.R. 1263, on the other hand, would move grandfathered AW's to the NFA as a separate category. Transfers would have to be approved by the ATF, and the processing backlog could be expected to last 5 or 10 years, unless the ATF is drastically restructured and expanded.
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That is my reading too. Note that semi-automatic pistols are now included as banned if they permit certain scary features. All the AR pistols and AK pistols are right out. Someone at the Hill did the math and 16 of the new 2018 reps that won in districts where Trump beat Hillary in 2016 are listed as co-sponsors. The signal of blessing is if Pelosi allows a vote on it rather than simply listed as co-sponsors. The last polling that I saw indicated that by nearly 60-30 that Americans still favored the Right to Bear Arms but that inverts when "Assault" weapons are mentioned. That is the wedge that should be employed by opponents because many if not most of these firearms would never be considered for the U.S. or other militaries for use. Self defense weapons maybe?
 
AlexanderA said:
That's not surprising because such "pistols" are not really pistols but are workarounds for the SBR regs. Not that I think that SBR's should be regulated in the first place.
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The use of one apparently in the Dayton killing spree and the whole shockwave, etc. workaround for SBR's might be a bumpstock fiasco redux. Trump is a typical New York City resident as are Javanka while Trump Jr. seems a bit more friendly to the 2a. I don't think Trump cares that much about 2A but politically, even if Trump does the left's bidding on gun control is smart enough to recognize it will win him no votes from that crowd and cost him on the other side. If he does anything significant it would be with the cover of the NRA. What I am a bit worried about is that the NRA is engaged in its own civil war with LaPierre increasingly looking like Assad of Syria. WLP is effectively weakened as a manager to many and radioactive as a spokesperson but in order to cling to his job, he might just try to leverage a split in the organization to hold onto power. Signing on to certain gun regulations might very well eliminate a whole lot of his critics by them leaving the organization in protest.
 
herrwalther said:
If this nightmare passes, it looks like I will be a gunsmith working the combined 2nd American Revolution/Civil War.
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The thing is that the U.S. is unable to keep drugs, people, or other contraband from moving across its borders. This sort of legislation will simply be like the Prohibition where the elite have their bodyguards, gated communities, and enclosures where they enjoy armed protection and flout the law while average Joe or Josephine in a tough neighborhood can't get a very basic firearm for protection without spending months of their pay. Just before the Chicago gun ban was declared unconstitutional, a Chicago alderman got his colleagues to reopen the registry of firearms which was frozen in the 1970's because he forgot to re-register his firearms (see Council member Dick Mell, https://nalert.blogspot.com/2008/05/chicago-alderman-dick-mell-re-writes.html. ) The public was not informed of the ordinance and amnesty or you are simply like Alderman Burke who kept firearms illegally https://www.longislandgunclub.com/f...rged-with-extortion-had-23-guns-in-his-office.

The elite or powers that be, more or less have separated and insulated themselves from the people like the old nobility of Europe in most countries under the globalization banner. They simply do not care about what happens to the average citizen with their policies at best, and want them dead at worst.
 
boom boom said:
The use of one apparently in the Dayton killing spree and the whole shockwave, etc. workaround for SBR's might be a bumpstock fiasco redux. Trump is a typical New York City resident as are Javanka while Trump Jr. seems a bit more friendly to the 2a. I don't think Trump cares that much about 2A but politically, even if Trump does the left's bidding on gun control is smart enough to recognize it will win him no votes from that crowd and cost him on the other side. If he does anything significant it would be with the cover of the NRA. What I am a bit worried about is that the NRA is engaged in its own civil war with LaPierre increasingly looking like Assad of Syria. WLP is effectively weakened as a manager to many and radioactive as a spokesperson but in order to cling to his job, he might just try to leverage a split in the organization to hold onto power. Signing on to certain gun regulations might very well eliminate a whole lot of his critics by them leaving the organization in protest.
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:what:
 
old lady new shooter said:
I don't think we here should refer to semi-automatic rifles as "assault weapons". It's OK to use the term in quotes, or to say there is a proposed law that would classify x, y and z as "assault weapons", but *WE* should not call them that.
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You are right, I'm tired and not having a good day overall. It should have been the Left wants to classify most semi-automatics as "assault weapons" or something like that.
 
Given current environment and the sad fact that shootings will continue something will be passed. I don't see small defensive handguns like the Shield, XDs, G42/43, LCP,.....being banned. If the Democrats win and get majority anything is possible.
 
Yes, call them Modern Sporting Rifles as that will make all the difference in the debate.

Fox News Poll:


35.-37.
Banning assault rifles and semi-automatic weapons
13 Aug 19 67% in favor 27% opposed.
--------------------
I've said repeatedly the definitional battle is lost. You need to justify why the guns are necessary for the RKBA. Saying they are guaranteed as God Given Right, won't move the social consensus. This law is technically stupid and written by folks who don't understand firearms. Maybe that is a good thing. It's weird mix of old laws and some new provisions.
 
GEM said:
Yes, call them Modern Sporting Rifles as that will make all the difference in the debate.

Fox News Poll:


35.-37.
Banning assault rifles and semi-automatic weapons
13 Aug 19 67% in favor 27% opposed.
--------------------
I've said repeatedly the definitional battle is lost. You need to justify why the guns are necessary for the RKBA. Saying they are guaranteed as God Given Right, won't move the social consensus. This law is technically stupid and written by folks who don't understand firearms. Maybe that is a good thing. It's weird mix of old laws and some new provisions.
Click to expand...


The future for ownership of high capacity semi-auto rifles and carbines looks pretty gloomy. It's not matter of if but when. I got rid of Korean 5.56 and Chinese 7.62 long ago and I'm not taking a plunge to be a new owner of one. I have nothing against others having them.
 
Maybe we should all try marching in angry hordes, seems to be the way to get things done. Or maybe walking around with semi automatic rifles out in public places performing those lovely 2A audits will win people over.

The problem is we dont have good representation and alot of us sit on our hands, myself included. It's going to take more than donating a few bucks to various RKBA orgs to even have a chance at swaying public opinion.... some media coverage of people saving their own lives with these guns wouldn't hurt. Like some "The armed citizen" accounts except put them in a place non NRA members will see...
 
That's happen in Australia. There are several problems:

1. GOP (supposed gun friendly party) isn't really pushing or defending gun rights.
2. There is no good messaging supporting the ownership of whatever you want to call these guns. The public sees only misuse.
3. SCOTUS moves at a glacial pace and the outcome of cases that would support ownership is in doubt.
4. The NRA is emasculated in that it would have a hard time having any major spokesperson engaging in the usual media presentations.
 
P5 Guy said:
Next step will be to ban all manual repeaters. No more lever, pump or turn bolt firearms fed from magazines.
Click to expand...
Yes, the Mausers, Enfields, and Mosins, not to mention Krags and Springfields, that are over a century year old will suddenly become the new assault rifles, because these have bayonet lug, use magazines, fires a "high powered round", and were used in WAR. After banning these, then we will get to discuss the blackpowder and antique loophole that allows such horrid repeaters assault rifles as the 1886 Lebel or the Mauser 71/84, or the evil rapid firing rate of the 1888 GEW using those new fangled Mannlicher clips.

A compromise proposal by Republicans will still allow us the single Shot Trapdoor and we get to keep the rod bayonet but we will have limits on our McKeever pouch in our belt. No more than four cartridges can be held in the McKeever pouch or it will be considered a high capacity accessory and thus banned. Some will also call for pellet gun regulation because as Ralphie's parents warned us, "You'll shoot your eye out".

That is the way it was, April 1st, 2025.
 
GEM said:
Yes, call them Modern Sporting Rifles as that will make all the difference in the debate.

Fox News Poll:


35.-37.
Banning assault rifles and semi-automatic weapons
13 Aug 19 67% in favor 27% opposed.
--------------------
I've said repeatedly the definitional battle is lost. You need to justify why the guns are necessary for the RKBA. Saying they are guaranteed as God Given Right, won't move the social consensus. This law is technically stupid and written by folks who don't understand firearms. Maybe that is a good thing. It's weird mix of old laws and some new provisions.
Click to expand...

I am not as sure as you are about that.
On the recent poll in question, I tried to pry out particulars of the polling and it was remarkably unhelpful in the details on the link. There are definitely ways to rig such a poll as by oversampling geographic regions as a California or Mass Republican is not the same as elsewhere nor are Dems all urban and so on. It could be a canary in a coal mine or something bogus and Fox has not the best record in polling. One might also get a socially acceptable answer to such a thing over the phone or a rejection to answer anything which also may skew the sample.

Yankelovich, a long time pollster, has one of the best books written on the subject for the layperson called Coming to Public Judgment. In essence, when the public is presented with a new issue, the polling data is ratty as they have outcome preferences in a new issue (stop the mass shootings) rather than hardened public policy positions. Ideologues believe in cause and effect and that their policies will work. Ideologue rarely change their positions because that is the way the world works to them or maybe should work. The mushy middle just wants the mass shootings to stop and whoever has a better answer to that will get first dibs at taking a crack at policy. If the policy appears to work then the public will wander off to something else that is shiny.

The belief that anything is an inevitable fate (other than our death perhaps or taxes) is a form of determinism when history gives us examples of all sorts of inexplicable turnings that cannot be explained in a rational sense. Whether providence is looking out for us or karmic balance exists, or simply people are irrational to begin with, somehow we muddle through but individuals may have a pretty hard time of it in the meantime.
 
boom boom said:
Yes, the Mausers, Enfields, and Mosins, not to mention Krags and Springfields, that are over a century year old will suddenly become the new assault rifles, because these have bayonet lug, use magazines, fires a "high powered round", and were used in WAR. After banning these, then we will get to discuss the blackpowder and antique loophole that allows such horrid repeaters assault rifles as the 1886 Lebel or the Mauser 71/84, or the evil rapid firing rate of the 1888 GEW using those new fangled Mannlicher clips.

A compromise proposal by Republicans will still allow us the single Shot Trapdoor and we get to keep the rod bayonet but we will have limits on our McKeever pouch in our belt. No more than four cartridges can be held in the McKeever pouch or it will be considered a high capacity accessory and thus banned. Some will also call for pellet gun regulation because as Ralphie's parents warned us, "You'll shoot your eye out".

That is the way it was, April 1st, 2025.
Click to expand...

The terrorist shooters will determine what comes after self-loading rifles with large capacity magazines. I would bet lever actions and pumps will be used before bolt-action guns.
 
GEM said:
That's happen in Australia. There are several problems:

1. GOP (supposed gun friendly party) isn't really pushing or defending gun rights.
2. There is no good messaging supporting the ownership of whatever you want to call these guns. The public sees only misuse.
3. SCOTUS moves at a glacial pace and the outcome of cases that would support ownership is in doubt.
4. The NRA is emasculated in that it would have a hard time having any major spokesperson engaging in the usual media presentations.
Click to expand...

That's because all most politicians care about is holding onto power by being re-elected. The Tweetmaister just sends out messages to see what will fly and what will fall and sink. Sensing something has to be done he has sent his daughter to determine what stance can be made about guns while expanding electorate base and keeping the one he has.
 
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