380 v 9mm Mak for pocket personal protection

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jski

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Should we Americans dump the 380 and go with the 9mm Makarov for pocket personal protection?

I’m currently using the Polski P-64 for pocket personal protection (a.k.a., p3). Based on size and reliability, it’s definitely far more reliable than any 380 I’m aware of and it’s an ideal size.

But there is the issue that its magazine carries only 6 rounds. So I carry an extra mag with me in addition.

Oh yeah, why? Because it’s easier to put rounds on target and it’s a better man stopper.
 
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I've had an East German Makarov for decades and it's a nice, accurate handgun. But since all of my 380s are also nice accurate handguns as are the 32acps and reliability is the same for all of them the Mak just has to wait it's turn to go WalkAbout.

Honestly my 32acps really get far more than their fair share of WalkAbout.
 
jski

I wouldn't trade either of my two .380s (a Colt Mustang and a SIG P238), for any Makarov. Both are pocket carry size, easy to shoot, have great single action triggers, are totally reliable, and are very accurate for the job at hand.

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The Military Arms Channel did a torture test of Mak pistols and the damn things are virtually indestructible. Like the AKs, they will not ‘not fire’ ... no matter what!

And as for the 380 being as good a man stopper as the 9mm Mak, not sure that even smacks of credible?
 
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The Military Arms Channel did a torture test of Mak pistols and the damn things are virtually indestructible. Like the AKs, they will not ‘not fire’ ... no matter what!

And as for the 380 being as good a man stopper as the 9mm Mak, not sure that even smacks of credible?
Depends on the person using it.

Personally I seem to carry 32acp more than either 9mm Corto or 9mm Mak or 9mm Luger or any other of the many choices I have available.

And the MAC torture test are fun to laugh over.
 
I love my p64. It was a pain to resize and trim all those 9mm cases but now that I have 700 loaded up, it's fine. I carry it a lot when I'm on my place that has bears, hogs, and plenty of snakes but prefer my DiamondBack 9mm for concealed carry due to it's size and weight.

Two things I don't like about the p64 are its ridiculously hard DA trigger and the fact that it ejects the empties into the next county. I don't want to lose all those trimmed and expanded cases.
 
jski

You can be as dubious as you want; still wouldn't make me change my mind about how much better my .380s are versus your 9X18 Polish P64.

To each their own...
 
I love my p64. It was a pain to resize and trim all those 9mm cases but now that I have 700 loaded up, it's fine. I carry it a lot when I'm on my place that has bears, hogs, and plenty of snakes but prefer my DiamondBack 9mm for concealed carry due to it's size and weight.

Two things I don't like about the p64 are its ridiculously hard DA trigger and the fact that it ejects the empties into the next county. I don't want to lose all those trimmed and expanded cases.

Wolff Gunsprings for P-64:
https://www.gunsprings.com/POLISH /P64 /cID1/mID49/dID196
These should fix that DA trigger pull problem for you!

And as for brass, Starline’s got your back:
https://www.starlinebrass.com/9mm-makarov-brass
 
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Skip the 380, Mak and other pistol cartridges and go straight to a rifle caliber if you want a "man stopper."
I did say POCKET personal protection. Not sure a rifle qualifies as a pocket weapon. I’m pretty sure the P-64 is as big as it gets and still qualifies as a pocket weapon.
 
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Should we Americans dump the 380 and go with the 9mm Makarov for pocket personal protection?
No.
1. No 9x18 is the size of a Ruger LCP/Taurus TCP/KelTex P3at/etc.
2. No 9x18 is the weight of a Ruger LCP/Taurus TCP/KelTex P3at/etc.
3. No 9x18 has the availability of service or repair as US made .380's.
4. Availability of .380 ammunition vs 9x18 across the US? No contest.
5. The only reason to dump .380 is to go to 9x19.
6. 9x19 is available in handguns smaller/lighter/newer than any 9x18.







I’m currently using the Polski P-64 for pocket personal protection (a.k.a., p3). Based on size and reliability, it’s definitely far more reliable than any 380 I’m aware of and it’s an ideal size.
Really? Ideal?
Compared to modern .380's its a bloated boat anchor.
P64 at 22oz unloaded, 6.3"OAL, 1.16"wide & 4.6" high...…..that's HUGE!
Vs
Ruger LCP at 9.4oz unloaded, 5.1"OAL, .82" wide and 3.6" high.....that's tiny!
Vs
Glock 43 9x19 at 16.23 unloaded, 6.26"OAL, 1" wide and 4.25" high or the SIG P365.

The P64 is actually almost identical in size/weight to a Glock 26:
Glock 26 at 19.4oz unloaded, 6.41"OAL, 1.18" wide and 4.17 high.
And the Glock takes 10/15/17/33 round magazines.

But there is the issue that its magazine carries only 6 rounds. So I carry an extra mag with me in addition.
Regardless of magazine capacity its wise to always carry a spare magazine.


Oh yeah, why? Because it’s easier to put rounds on target
Wasn't for me.

and it’s a better man stopper.
Arguable, as there is little difference between the two.
The .380 is available in more loadings and commercial development continues.....but Mak's dead baby, Mak's dead.
 
The differences between the .380acp and 9x18 are so minuscule that I honestly believe the recipient of the slug would respond identically to either. There are several JHPs and even a couple "premium" JHP options for the 9x18, though there's far greater availability of premium defensive rounds for the .380acp.

I have the P64 and I do like it. I've carried it and really have nothing against it. For what it is (a low capacity, compact-yet-hefty auto with mediocre sights and chambered in a mild cartridge), it does well. I would not pit it against something similarly sized and substantially more effective such as the P365 or even the PM/CM9, but it can get the job done.

As for ditching the well-established .380acp for a similar Russian cartridge that has a smidgen more energy and bullet diameter, where do I start? How about with absolutely not. The 9x18 may hold an ever-so-slight edge over the .380acp, it's not anywhere near the realm of something that would justify even the most whimsical of considerations. I'm under the impression that question was asked tongue-in-cheek and not actually serious.

Though my go-to IWB carry for most of the year is a Sig P365, I do still carry a .380acp on occasion (a Colt Government 380) during simple trips to the grocery store and such. Heck, I even pocket-carry a P32 for such errands. If I were carrying the P64 instead, holding one less round and having inferior sights(IMHO to the Colt), I wouldn't feel particularly less-armed.

Bottom line, I wouldn't feel under-armed with the 9x18 and the P64 is a fine little pistol. Let's just not put either on a pedestal.
 
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As to the statement “Mak’s Dead” I offer this:

When looking for a P-64 I noticed a video from Classic Firearms. They literally had crates of P-64s they were unpacking. And these were simply wrapped in packing paper, no holsters. There must have been a thousand of them.

Some time later, I was looking for a friend who expressed interest and went to the Classic Firearms website. Under P-64 it simply read: OUT OF STOCK

And there are many milsurp dealers handling P-64s. And the P-64 is but one ilk of 9mm Makarov!
 
I've considered carrying my Pole, too, simply because I really do like old-school steel. But, against my Kel-Tec PF9, which I've owned a lot longer, I just couldn't make sense of it. The KT is the same size, barely over half the weight, is chambered for the most-readily available centerfire pistol ammo on the planet (and most-affordable), and holds an additional round of that more-powerful ammo.

Now, I have carried my Bulgarian PM, though, from time to time. Being a "real" Makarov pistol, it holds two more rounds of ammo than the P64 does, and is easier in hand.
 
Should we Americans dump the 380 and go with the 9mm Makarov for pocket personal protection?

NO! Not only no, heck (high road) no!

Oh yeah, why? Because it’s easier to put rounds on target and it’s a better man stopper.

If you don’t think the .380 is capable enough, why don’t you just switch to the ever popular 9mm?


I’m tickled to death the you have found a carry gun that works for you and you like. I’ll keep my very reliable .380’s if it’s OK with you.
 
For concealed carry in America while a MAK type will serve, it is not the smartest choice. If for some reason I was arming a large police or military force and intended to use a blow back pistol of less than 9x19 parabellum power I would likely choose the MAK made to the old comblock specifications. That model of gun has seen military service from saint petersburg russia going to Balkans and then china and the far russian east and in all sorts of third world wars. Basically it is reliable and soldier proof. But there are better guns for USA civilian concealed carry.
 
As to the statement “Mak’s Dead” I offer this:

When looking for a P-64 I noticed a video from Classic Firearms. They literally had crates of P-64s they were unpacking. And these were simply wrapped in packing paper, no holsters. There must have been a thousand of them.

Some time later, I was looking for a friend who expressed interest and went to the Classic Firearms website. Under P-64 it simply read: OUT OF STOCK

And there are many milsurp dealers handling P-64s. And the P-64 is but one ilk of 9mm Makarov!
So Classic Firearms has a bunch of P64 in stock. The point----> . <----(you missed it but described the situation perfectly):D
Surplus imports do not drive US ammunition manufacturers. While Classic may have sold "a thousand", that's likely how many Glock 9mm pistols have sold this morning. A thousand, two thousand, even five thousand of a particular surplus firearm isn't going to get a US ammunition manufacturer all that excited to invest in more than the occasional run of 9mmMak.

It's not your P64 that's dead, it's the cartridge. By dead, I mean even the Commies have given up on it, hence the surplus imports. By dead, I mean WalMart likely carries only one loading….and that's how you judge whether a cartridge is popular. If WalMart doesn't stock it, it's because demand is low or nonexistent. That doesn't mean its not a good cartridge, just not popular.

Lack of popularity or lack of demand means ammunition manufacturers aren't going to invest much time into R&D to develop better, more effective loads.
 
Until it shears it's firing pin tip or gets "dead trigger" affliction. Oh, and there is this bit about jt having a trigger that promotes AD/ND due to its low weight and short travel as compared to a full DA stroke.
Please share whatever it is you're smoking.

Thousands of folks on multiple forums have had more than excellent results
If you do not have proper trigger control habits to handle it, perhaps pepper spray might a better choice for you.
 
Please share whatever it is you're smoking.

Thousands of folks on multiple forums have had more than excellent results
If you do not have proper trigger control habits to handle it, perhaps pepper spray might a better choice for you.

Yup- 30 years (since age 13) of almost daily carry smoking the safe handling characteristics of proper SAO (w/ manual safety), DA/SA, and DAO defensive handguns. The "keep your bugger hook off the bang switch" works until it doesn't, or Mr. Murphy decides to activate the trigger for you with a jacket cinch, wad of shirt or the item du jour. What age did you start carrying a handgun, George P?

Just another simple question...

How many years of successful production (multiple facilities) and service does the P365 have versus the Makarov? How many Makarovs busted their firing pin in first box of ammo, or went "dead trigger" during the first range trip? I seen both, and held the P365s in my hand with those problems. But whatever, it's good to go because I saw a lot of Sit ads in magazines and YouTube paid reviews, so it must be OK, right????

It's always fun to mess with the striker aficianados- they get so defensive when something challenges their world view generated by the puffy chest crowd with a too tight graphic tee and annoying operator beard.
 
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