gotboostvr
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Can't argue with real world results like that!
Small game getter: shotgun v rimfire
- Thread starter D.B. Cooper
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Can't argue with real world results like that!
Speaking of 20 ga over .22LR: This week I nailed a woodchuck on my back lawn that I couldn't get a good shot at with my rifle because of other houses in two directions. I had to sneak up around the corner of the house to shoot away from the road and house, but it would see me first and would make a 10 yard dash to the down-slope and disappear in the pucker brush. I missed him twice with the scoped rifle, but believe I nailed him with the second shot of my 20 gauge O/U, just as he cleared the lawn. I didn't see the body in the tangle and rock voids, but we've had several turkey vultures flying around, and haven't seen the critter in 4 days.
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D.B. Cooper
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I've always liked the combo gun, in theory. But everything I've read about them indicates that it's difficult/impossible to get point of aim to match point of impact on both rifle and shotgun. Add to that the relative scarcity of those guns (in my area at least), the somewhat chinsy build of the modern production Model 42, (not to mention the Chiappa version) and I've stayed away from them.
Dave DeLaurant
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I sold my Savage 24V (223/20ga) for this reason -- zero tended to drift after a few rifle shots got the barrels warmed up. Probably not as big a deal with a .22 LR provided you don't use the SG barrel enough to get it hot and then switch to rifle.
I wonder whether the Valmet 412/512 combo gun did better in this regard, due to the space between the O/U barrels?
I had a couple in various chamberings, but the big problem with all of them was the relatively poor iron sights. A receiver sight was a good idea, but a bit clumsy and the front sight was very poor.My general purpose critter gitter is a Savage 24 22mag/20ga.
But if I were to be out innawoods looking for some specific type of game I might take something more purpose driven (an AR for yotes, or a 12ga for tree rats)
Armored farmer
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I have a pretty good story about that....
I was squirrel hunting with my model 24 when a spotted a squirrel on a limb in the open. I had a good, open, but long shot on him from a rested position. I estimate about 35yds give or take. Open sights. I rested against a tree and carefully aimed and instead of the expected "crack" of the ..22lr, I got the "bang" of the .410 barrel.
<crap> I had forgotten to switch the selector back to the upper barrel.
Oh well.... that one got away, and I went on with my hunt vowing to be more careful about the selector.
About ten minutes later, back in the direction of my last shot, I heard snap, pop, ...thud!
The little 2.5" .410 #4 shot had worked after all!
Jeb Stuart
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Another pick of a beautiful Savage. Really nice gun, Also too bad discontinued, the new model is below. Just not the same.
They also have a 20" model. It seems 410. is becoming Popular. See more of them all the time now. And the new Federal Turkey load looks impressive.
kBob
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I have shot tree rats with a FWB 4.5mm and it worked about the yard with head and shoulderish shots. something to be said for them but I would not like to in a hungry situation have to pass up some non traditional game animals that folks have certainly eaten like racoon and (shudder) 'possum because all I had was an air rifle. Not sure I want to shoot a cayote or pig bothering the chickens with an air rifle either... and zombees….
I suppose it I was carrying say my long nosed S&W M27 in a holster and carrying the air rifle it might not be too bad in the feed the family situation but I see the air rifle as more of an extra rather than primary and yes I bought the FWB because of Mel Tappin (recently bought a new copy of "survival guns" despite it being dated as my original had completely separated from the binder ) (was anyone else shocked that Burt Miller chose and AR-180 for his main defense rifle? ;>) ) and took it tree rat shooting just to see if he was right.
-kBob
I suppose it I was carrying say my long nosed S&W M27 in a holster and carrying the air rifle it might not be too bad in the feed the family situation but I see the air rifle as more of an extra rather than primary and yes I bought the FWB because of Mel Tappin (recently bought a new copy of "survival guns" despite it being dated as my original had completely separated from the binder ) (was anyone else shocked that Burt Miller chose and AR-180 for his main defense rifle? ;>) ) and took it tree rat shooting just to see if he was right.
-kBob
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D.B. Cooper
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After the discussion here, I question that premise. The scarcity of small game seen at a distance where the rimfire would be of value, combined with the difficulty of hitting small game on the move with a rimfire gives the advantage to the shotgun.
entropy
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Crossbow or compound bow. Much quieter. If you're foraging, so are others, and noise attracts attention. If this is not a consideration. it depends on how good you are with each, and whether you like picking shot out of your meat.
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D.B. Cooper
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I pretty much suck with a bow LOL. We have this "archery certification" to be allowed to hunt in an archery only season, and one of the tests is 4 arrows, no misses at 30 yards; I often say "30 yards is a good shot for a 30-30, but not for a bow." (I shoot a bare recurve bow with no sights. I also am not good at getting 3 yards from an animal.)
Jeb Stuart
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If you were starving to death, I doubt that picking out shot would be of any concern. I like my Squirrel with a Orange cranberry sauce and a good Claret. But that may not be available all the time. Starving, I will gladly pick out the shot, and fight over the bones.
someguy2800
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True enough, but if it we are talking about survival I’ll still take the 22 because 500 rounds of 22lr takes up the same amount of space and weight as 50 .410 shells.
I thought we were just talking about something to keep around a country home to go bum in the woods with. I guess to way I see it a guy is missing out without both of them. I’ll take a scoped 22 and a pump 12ga shotgun. Then your covered for waterfowl too.
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D.B. Cooper
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We are...sort of.
When you're living the off-grid, farm life, you're also, for the most part, out of the normal cash economy-at least you make every effort to stay out of the cash economy as much as possible. So what happens is you try to make use of every available resource-especially for food. It's not exactly survival, but every piece of food you can shoot, catch, or grow, means your limited cash resources can be used to purchase things you can't procure outside of the economy-typically these are finished goods: gas and oil for chainsaws and vehicles, tools & equipment, etc.
So it's easy for some folks to somewhat blur the lines between "something to keep around a country home to go bum in the woods with" and "survival."
huntsman
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Yep I think normalcy bias clouds thinking sometimes but a sustenance situation isn’t the same as a Saturday hunt, anything that gives one advantage should be used.
A firearm that can take a bumped up bird or a running squirrel at anytime with reasonable success is an edge big time.
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Without reading through all of this I am going shotgun all the way. If I had to pick one gun that I own to protect my chickens and rabbits and feed my family it would be the old Ithica super single 20ga with full choke. When my dad handed it down to me he told me "if you can see a rabbit you can kill it" and he wasn't kidding. When hunting grouse I use low brass #6 but if it's an area that has a lot of squirrels too I also keep some 3" high brass #4 in my pocket and can't recall ever losing one in the 40-50 yard range. Geese and ducks out of my kayak at the same ranges as my buddies using their 12 gauges no problem. Really there are only a couple things legal to hunt in Michigan that I haven't used it for.
A good .22lr with a suppressor would be great for SHTF, but that isn't what you asked, nor is it up for discussion here.
someguy2800
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Well if that’s what you have in mind you’ll need to strike a balance between 12 gauge shells that cost $.25 a piece (can be reloaded for a little less but you still need a supply of components) and 22lr that costs $.05. It takes a few squirrels to make a meal, so knocking squirrels out of trees with a shotgun is going to be cost prohibitive. On the other hand going grouse hunting with a 22 is likely to be frustrating unless you are better at spotting them on the ground than me.
Jeb Stuart
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Gee, what ga should I use? How about all of them?
And don't forget the Midland accepts all Beretta chokes.
And don't forget the Midland accepts all Beretta chokes.
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I grew up shooting .22 and 12 gage. If I absolutely wanted to kill something or if it was bigger than a fox I took the 12 gage. Otherwise used .22. My father was a stickler who required an accounting for each shotgun shell I shot.
Now a days I carry 20 gage, lighter and yet still effective. However if I lived where there were large critters that could eat you, would probably be using 12 gage. Used a .410 for one year. Do not care for it when a 20 is available.
Now a days I carry 20 gage, lighter and yet still effective. However if I lived where there were large critters that could eat you, would probably be using 12 gage. Used a .410 for one year. Do not care for it when a 20 is available.
Legionnaire
Contributing Member
For many years I had and hunted a Savage 24 E-DL in .22 mag over 20 gauge. It was a great squirrel getter. I had it scoped with a 1-4x20 Leupold; the .22 mag barrel was very accurate, but it wasn't great with slugs. Shot patterned pretty well, though, and I liked it overall.
However, I no longer own it. It was comparatively heavy for what it was, and I found that more and more I was carrying either a shotgun or a rimfire in the woods. So the 24 has been gone for several years with no regret.
I aspire to country living post retirement and I will no doubt downsize my collection before then. But I can't see being without a good pump action shotgun with a vent rib barrel and removable chokes and a rifled slug barrel and a bolt action .22.
However, I no longer own it. It was comparatively heavy for what it was, and I found that more and more I was carrying either a shotgun or a rimfire in the woods. So the 24 has been gone for several years with no regret.
I aspire to country living post retirement and I will no doubt downsize my collection before then. But I can't see being without a good pump action shotgun with a vent rib barrel and removable chokes and a rifled slug barrel and a bolt action .22.
Scooter22
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If your asking one gun for for food I'd go with .22. You can take up to deer size game with careful shots. Plus you can have 500 rounds in the same size box of 25 rounds of shot shells. Not a big game or defense round but it will keep you fed.
MacAR
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Last week, I acquired a Chiappa Double Badger 22/410. It took some effort to get it shooting where I needed it to as the barrel regulation is "off", but once I figured it out it seemed to do fine. Seems to me that it might fit the bill perfectly for what you need. Light weight and compact, it points and carries quite well. It's grooved for a scope or red dot sight, also. I will know more later this fall when squirrel season gets under way (far too hot for hunting right now!), but plan to carry the little gun quite a bit when chasing my friends hounds.
Having said that though, my go-to homestead gun is Pap's old M37 Winchester 16 gauge. Everything from quail to deer has fallen to that old gun. Small game and varmints get a heavy load of #6 shot, and yotes and deer get #1 buck. Its always been very effective on whatever I've used it on. The only problem is, its a bit slow to reload being a single shot. That's not a huge handicap though. Given the choice for an all-round gun, I'd certainly pick the scattergun every time. Perfectly serviceable (with the right loads) for most any game, distance is your only limiting factor. But, even that can be overcame with time, practice and patience.
Mac
Having said that though, my go-to homestead gun is Pap's old M37 Winchester 16 gauge. Everything from quail to deer has fallen to that old gun. Small game and varmints get a heavy load of #6 shot, and yotes and deer get #1 buck. Its always been very effective on whatever I've used it on. The only problem is, its a bit slow to reload being a single shot. That's not a huge handicap though. Given the choice for an all-round gun, I'd certainly pick the scattergun every time. Perfectly serviceable (with the right loads) for most any game, distance is your only limiting factor. But, even that can be overcame with time, practice and patience.
Mac
I had a newer one than yours, but it also had the same selecter. The mechanism broke, so I sent it to the factory for repair, but they put the newer hammer in it that had a selector on the top, though they left the old selector button on the side. DUH! Oh yeah, it's a Savage!! Why should I have expected anything else.
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