H&K USP

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cslinge Thanks for your support, for some reason Mr. Trunk Monkey has chosen to give me a hard time on every aspect of conversation, as a result based on his last reply I have chosen to ignore him. It is what it is.


No worries. There is some merit to what he is saying. Being unfamiliar or untrained can breed fear and more so potentially be dangerous. (Not saying that is you, but there are people like that. )

If you go for a .45 HK (USP/USPC/HK45/HK45c) you will totally be able to basically have a “modern 1911 experience) if you will. You will also be able to experiment with other handling characteristics such as decocked DA or DA safety on if you so desire.

All are GREAT guns. All have middling to crappy double actions. All have passable single actions. I have an HK45c and it is about as close to a modern interpretation of a tactical Tupperware 1911 as you will get. It is a STELLAR handgun but does have the worst DA of all my HKs, but even then boy is she accurate.

USP’s have better triggers but not by a huge margin.

Honestly I think it would be a fun experience for you to try a USP/HK45 as your 1911 skills carry over and you have soooo many other options beyond that. Hell if you factor in the other trigger conversion options you have eleventy billion options. :)

I don’t know you and I don’t know your skills/experience with various platforms so I only caution you that the HKs will not “FEEL” like a 1911 even though they can be operated similarly.

Good luck, take care and shoot safe.
Chris
 
Not a USP but a V1 HK45c. I posted my thoughts a while back and they might be of help. If not.......ehhh your only out a couple K of bandwidth. :)

Much of this does carry over to the USP.

The HK45C is a bit of a mixed bag. I very much like mine as I love the P2000 and see the 45C as sort of a .45 caliber P2000.

PROS
-Very intrinsically accurate. The machining, the barrel, the barrel lockup etc. are all first rate. The limiting factor to accuracy is the trigger and ammo choice
-Dead nuts reliable. Run a box or three of hotter or heavier stuff to loosen it up. I suggest this with all HK's. After this, which is usually not necessary at all, most HKs are dead nuts reliable and the HK45/45C are VERY reliable platforms
-Fantastic machining/finishing both metal and polymer
-Very good stock sights. The stock night sights (LE model) are excellent as long as you are ok with 3 dots. The regular sights are very good as well.
-Very versatile. The 45C can go from a slim carry gun to a 10 shot suppressor ready I wanttobesolidsnakedammit gun very easily and excels at either.
-Good suppressor host with threaded barrel
-Elephant foot mags look goofy but feel good in my hand
-Fantastic exterior finish (Hostile Environment) VERY TOUGH finish. Like Glock tough back when Glock had tough finishes (GEN3 and before) maybe tougher in my experience.
-Very modular. There are approximately 4,697 different trigger and safety variations. Ok that's a bit facetious but you can set the gun up in one of many variants to suit your tastes.
-Excellent magazine quality
-HK snobbery forged right into the slide added chemically to the polymer mix. :D
-HK customer service. Yes I KNOW THE MEME's and YES there was a time HK sucked and they hated you. Today there customer support in my experience is TOP NOTCH.

YMMV STUFF
-I like the grip very much. I like the stippling front and back and smooth sides for easier carry. I also like that it is more P2000 then P30 like the full size 45, but as I said I view it as sort of a .45 caliber P2000.
-Capacity of only 8-10 rounds. Its a .45 so caliber plays a part here but one would think 12 rounds would be doable in the extended/full size/elephant foot mags. Is that a deal breaker? Not for me personally but YMMV.
-Controls. HK's have large controls designed for gloved hands. I like having fairly decent sized slide lock/release levers etc. DA/SA guns decocker/safety position and lever may put some off. The paddle magazine release is a love it or hate it affair. I LOVE it. Hint use your trigger or middle finger not your thumb. That said I can see why folks would not like it.
-Recoil. I only put this here because so many tout the recoil mitigation characteristics of the 45 HKs. Frankly out of the box they are no better or worse then any of the competition IMO. As they break in they do seem to be a bit more recoil friendly then others of the same size/class but don't go into them thinking based on all the hype this thing will shoot like a .22 magnum.

CONS
-Cost and availability of parts and accessories
-A picatinny rail that holds about 3 accessories on the market. Again I am being a little facetious but the rail is pretty useless stock for stock for the great majority of lights. I have a Crimson Trace CMR-208 on mine and I do generally love the light so there are options but they are few and far between.
-HK snobbery forged right into the slide added chemically to the polymer mix. Double edged sword. You now get to be lumped in with all the HK delta bravo's and getting an answer about any issues can be hard to come by as many HK pureists / fanboys get their knickers in a twist at the mere mention of an HK having an issue. In all honest if you have an issue with one it was probably one of the few that missed getting blessed on the backs of naked virgins by Tibetan monks but if you send it back they will get that worked out. :D
-She's a big girl. At the end of the day she's a fightin' pistol not an svelte little piece of jewelry, but alas think 50s pinup model not 2000's heroin sheik
-Ohhh that trigger. Sigh. My gun is a DA/SA V1. Now I am not a trigger snob, but wow that double action trigger is........well lets just say its a helluva safety feature. :D The DA on my HK45C is probably the worst of all the HK's I have shot barring the VP70 (which has a trigger weight measured in days not pounds, but I digress). That being said the SA is pretty darn good. Decent reset, decent break. Cocked and locked, if that is your thing as it is not mine, would be pretty damn good in this gun. Just be aware if you are not getting a LEM variant the DA pull is stout, creepy and all around crappy. As for LEM I have never liked LEM. It has a weird feeling reset to me and the way the hammer moves is kinda strange to me. By far the DA trigger is this gun's Achilles heel and again I am NOT a trigger snob.

Honestly I love my HK45C. Its not a primary go to gun for me but I trust it implicitly, its dead nuts reliable, shoots to point of aim and is cool as hell. I would have no issues if you told me I had to take it into harms way nor would I have any issues if you told me I had to take it to the range or use it as my bedside pistol etc. Its a great gun. Its a versatile gun.

I don’t have any range target pics available to me at the moment but Here is mine with the a fore mentioned CMR-208
View attachment 846891
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I like my USP 45 quite a bit. I like being able to chamber check or field strip with the safety on.
It will feed any bullet style and handle any power level.
AFAIK, it's the only current production pistol rated for +p+ ammo.
Plus it cycles my light target SWC loads.
Tough gun to match for $800.
 
I have DA/SA semi's, Sig p229 and P220 along with a CZ 85 combat and a PCR, can you compare the H&K to either of those models?
 
The SIG triggers are noticeably better.

The CZ triggers are still better than the HK but not up to the SIG, as you probably know.

Not sure Which USP you are looking at but size for size the HKs tend to be bigger/beefier and a little down on capacity.

The USP should be FAR more durable then the CZ and SIGs long haul. Steel slide on steel frame rails trumps steel slide on alloy frame. That said for any normal user this is an academic, almost moot point. As far as known weak points.

SIGs chew up rails if you don’t keep after them
CZ’s eat slide stops
HK’s eat trigger return springs.

Honestly it’s hard to compare. HK’s tend to FEEL like their own animal so to speak.
 
You know those punishing threads that ask " if you could only have one handgun?" USP .45 would be my choice. Hard to choose between a SIG 220 and a USP but I edge toward the USP.

Luckily we are in the U.S of A where we mostly can own what or as much as we want (for now), of course our international members have certain freedom to also depending.
 
I have DA/SA semi's, Sig p229 and P220 along with a CZ 85 combat and a PCR, can you compare the H&K to either of those models?
Besides a couple Sig 9mms, I had a P220 SSS stainless, very nice gun. I prefer the Sig decocker, it's nearly silent and you ease the hammer down. The USP decocker drops the hammer hard onto the safety block. Perfectly safe, but it's a little unnerving with a loaded gun. Sig DA pull is better. Longer but smoother and lighter.
The USP certainly isn't the most ergonomic gun either.
The P220 feels great in the hand. About the only gun that rivals a 1911 that way.

Still, I keep coming back to the USP, prolly cause they feed and shoot my handloads so well.
 
All are GREAT guns. All have middling to crappy double actions. All have passable single actions

I agree. The DA of my three examples is pretty dang bad. Not so much middle. More crappy. SA is acceptable but not good by any means.

have DA/SA semi's, Sig p229 and P220 along with a CZ 85 combat and a PCR, can you compare the H&K to either of those models?

The worst sig of the examples I own was (is) an early mosquito. Its DA and Sa pull were both better than either USP before the slide broke in half. My worst 226, 229, or 220 is far better in either trigger mode, even my newer american made railed models. Same with my Berettas. Even the crappy triggers on the old tip up Berettas are better.
As far as accuracy the HK is as good as any of them if you get over the trigger. Recoil is lessened by the dual recoil springs in my opinion. Polygonal rifling was used on the USP. Supposedly can't use lead bullets. My glocks and HKs have fired many thousands with no incident.
The HK is the most glove friendly of all my handguns. I can use them even with my snowmobile gloves on with no issues. The huge controls and trigger guard are great in that respect. The paddle mag release is actually the worst part with thick gloves. I can't get my finger in the guard of a glock or sig at all with those on.
As far as ergos go the USP (especially in 45) is the worst ive ever had and I have big Glocks, a pmr 30, and a Hi- point 45, all known for bad ergos. I have big hands and it doesn't bother me but the ergos aren't very....ergo. people complain about the weight but if you weigh them you would be surprised by which guns are heavier. The ergos and balance make it feel worse than it is.
The rail is proprietary and next to nothing will fit it. Also not a problem for me because I don't hang stuff off the front of most of my guns.
Parts are exceptionally expensive. But rarely needed. (50-70 bucks for a recoil spring assembly. A glock is 7 dollars. A beretta stainless steel one is 25)


The USP should be FAR more durable then the CZ and SIGs long haul. Steel slide on steel frame rails trumps steel slide on alloy frame.

I agree here too. If your going 10s of thousands of rounds the HK is the choice imo. I have sigs showing considerable frame rail wear with glocks and HKs with more rounds showing no frame/ slide damage. If your not shooting many tens of thousands of rounds I'd bet you never need to worry either way, but it's a consideration.

Hard to choose between a SIG 220 and a USP but I edge toward the USP.

In 45 the USP and 220 arent all that similar. In 9 or 40 the 226 and USP are closer. The 220 feels more 1911 than Mk23. For a combat gun I'd choose the USP all day. More rounds and my 220s only feeds about half of the current hollow points because of the mag shape. For ccw or just fun I'd choose the 220 easily. For all out accuracy I think they are close.

Like stated above though. Luckily we can have more than one. If someone told me they were thinking about a 220 or 226 I say go for it and offer to let them try one of mine. If they say USP I insist on them at least holding one of mine first. Great guns but I think they fit a far smaller group of people than most guns, and their reputation is exaggerated due to great marketing and product placement IMO.
 
[QUOTE="cslinger, post: 11215959, member: 526"

SIGs chew up rails
CZ’s eat slide stops
HK’s eat trigger return springs.[/QUOTE]

You're starting to make me hungry...
 
I have USP expert and P220 chambered in .45. I think of the HK as target gun and P220 as more for defense. The USP expert has a longer bbl, adjustable rear sight and target trigger. Common to HKs, the trigger reset is relatively long. I installed a short reset kit in my P220. Both are great pistols.
 
Here is my USP45. I've added a few add-ons, over the years.

Osprey Suppressor
Vortex Venom
Lanyard.

"Stryker" is my Emergency Disaster Pistol. Looks like we will get a hurricane, this weekend. He will be out of the safe and Locked and Loaded.

Stryker+.JPG
 
So will you being going full solid snake/Navy Seal and slowly rising from your floodwaters gun outstretched.

The neighbors might enjoy that or possibly when the gator attacks you. :)
 
So far what I'm gathering from the responses are on the plus side, very strong robust build, accurate and reliable.
On the negative side, bad ergonomics for those with medium or small hand size and a crummy trigger pull.
One thing no one has mentioned is a source for customizing the trigger. CZ fans always recommend Cajun gun works or CZ custom.
Of course your $500 pistol will now be closer to 1K but it is an option.

Kind of reminds me of the Harleys back in the 70's. You didn't buy a motorcycle you bought a starter kit that leaked oil all over the place. My landlord wasn't pleased when I rebuilt mine in the apartment over the winter. :uhoh:

I really like my Sig P220 it has a decent DA/SA trigger, is very accurate and reliable with the ammo it likes. Mine is the stamped slide model so it's also very light.
Still in all it, along with the other modern designs I own wind up in the safe and I grab a 1911 commander for CCW and a full size for home defense. Guess I'm just going to have to live with old fogeyosis but I'll keep trying out new designs. :cool:
 
So far what I'm gathering from the responses are on the plus side, very strong robust build, accurate and reliable.
On the negative side, bad ergonomics for those with medium or small hand size and a crummy trigger pull.
One thing no one has mentioned is a source for customizing the trigger. CZ fans always recommend Cajun gun works or CZ custom.
Of course your $500 pistol will now be closer to 1K but it is an option.

Kind of reminds me of the Harleys back in the 70's. You didn't buy a motorcycle you bought a starter kit that leaked oil all over the place. My landlord wasn't pleased when I rebuilt mine in the apartment over the winter. :uhoh:

I really like my Sig P220 it has a decent DA/SA trigger, is very accurate and reliable with the ammo it likes. Mine is the stamped slide model so it's also very light.
Still in all it, along with the other modern designs I own wind up in the safe and I grab a 1911 commander for CCW and a full size for home defense. Guess I'm just going to have to live with old fogeyosis but I'll keep trying out new designs. :cool:
Bruce Gray of Gray Gun’s is well known for his trigger and action work on HKs and Sigs.

Lead time it pretty long though.
 
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OOS, If you decide to get this kit, It's gonna be out of stock most times at most places. There is one place that usually has it but, at a highly inflated price. You also could try to track down the individual parts for the kit, thereby making your own kit. Know in advance about this kit, it does very little to lighten or smooth out the double action pull. It for sure helps with the actual trigger itself and the single action pull is much nicer.

https://www.thesigarmorer.com/product/hk-cla/#barrel-fitting
 
The USP is one of my favorite guns (in both 9mm and .45ACP). Mine are all V1 as having the option to decock or go to SAFE as the situation dictates is what drew me to the platform.
 
Mine are all V1 as having the option to decock or go to SAFE as the situation dictates is what drew me to the platform.
Is that to say it's either or and you can't apply the safety in the decocked position on these models like on the CZ's?
 
Is that to say it's either or and you can't apply the safety in the decocked position on these models like on the CZ's?
No. You can put the safety on with the hammer cocked, or with the hammer down.

One downside of the HK lever, especially if you are a 1911 shooter that rides the thumb safety, is you can ride the HK lever down towards the decock position while shooting and end up with it in an intermediate position and leave you with a dead trigger. You'll figure it out fast enough and fix it, but it could be a surprise.
 
The HK ergonomics are good for me. I had three SIG. The SIG's,in excellent condition, appeared to have starting wear on the frame rails. Let all three of them go. Also sold my USP full size at the same time. Downsizing. All the guns were satisfactory. The HK that I kept was a USP compact in 45 ACP. On the downside is the size of the Compact. For carry, the G23 is better for me. Accuracy is unbeatable. with the HK compact. Looks like for most people it's a love or hate relationship with the HK.
 
Thanks for the tip, don't like the sound of that. As I do ride the safety on my 1911's.
Do all these models have the "O" ring setup and, if so, how often do you change out the "O" rings?
 
Handle the guns and see for yourself how likely it is to have a malfunction related to overtravel of the safety. The intermediate position of the safety allows the gun to be fired double action.
 
My USP is also a V1 and while I am left handed (and thus don't use the safety/decocker) I can't see how you would push the lever to decock without some serious effort. Mine is pretty stiff at that detent.
 
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