Submitting a copy FFL on gunbroker to non FFL seller

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lionking

lionking

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Have a question, on gunbroker it always says " must submit copy of FFL before shipment. But what when the seller is a private seller? I have a couple local stores that handle my transfers, one of them will not send a copy of their FFL to a private seller, they will only do so to another FFL dealer. They said that private sellers don't need a copy and they don't want to send it to private sellers.

So why do private sellers demand a copy of the firearm license? Why is it so common that they demand it if it isn't needed?
 
Your local guy is correct.

People SENDING guns to a dealer do NOT need a copy, all they need to do is confirm that the ffl they are shipping to is current.
First 3 and last 5 digits are all they need to run an ez check.

As for why they insist they do???

Thats what they have been told/heard and before the ezcheck, the only way to confirm the ffl was good
 
lionking said:
Have a question, on gunbroker it always says " must submit copy of FFL before shipment. But what when the seller is a private seller? I have a couple local stores that handle my transfers, one of them will not send a copy of their FFL to a private seller, they will only do so to another FFL dealer. They said that private sellers don't need a copy and they don't want to send it to private sellers.
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They are correct. While ATF regulations require that licensees receive a copy of the receiving dealers FFL, its not required for nonlicensees. The only requirement is that interstate shipments of firearms go to a licensee.

Some dealers are paranoid that a third grader will Photoshop a different address on to their FFL and cause the dealer to be beaten senseless by ATF, his dog shot and store burned by the locals.

So why do private sellers demand a copy of the firearm license? Why is it so common that they demand it if it isn't needed?
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Because the idiots that run GunBroker tell them to: https://support.gunbroker.com/hc/en-us/articles/222836508
"...Before you ship a gun, the buyer must fax or mail you a copy of the dealer's signed FFL license. You can only ship the gun to the address on the license..."
1. Both statements are wholly and completely false.
2. Fax? The only dealers who still use faxes to send/receive FFL's probably also use 28k dialup and wonder why they do so little business.
3. Mail? Oh.Good.Grief. It ain't 1982.
4. No federal law or ATF regulation requires shipping only to the addresses on the license. It IS likely that the dealer receives shipments at that address, but some do not.
 
newfalguy101 said:
Your local guy is correct.

People SENDING guns to a dealer do NOT need a copy, all they need to do is confirm that the ffl they are shipping to is current.
First 3 and last 5 digits are all they need to run an ez check.

As for why they insist they do???

Thats what they have been told/heard and before the ezcheck, the only way to confirm the ffl was good
Click to expand...

The last time I sent a handgun overnight via UPS the counter person asked me for a copy of the recipient’s FFL. It just so happened the buyer had sent one so I had it to give him. I’m not sure what would have happened if I hadn’t had it.
 
Find another local FFL who WILL send their info to the seller. I have bought lots of guns off GB from private sellers and have never had any of the FFL holders that I used complain about emailing their info to a non FFL holder!!! Under "BUY/Areas of Interest/Find an FFL" GB will provide you a list of local license holders and what they will charge you for filling out their papers. Pick the cheapest. You can set the distance from you that you are willing to travel remembering that guns, like eggs, are cheaper in the country. Here in Cincinnati, I had been getting transfers for $20 but my FFL holder just increased his price to $40. In a quick check of GB just now I found several willing to do it for $10.
 
newfalguy101 said:
Your local guy is correct.

People SENDING guns to a dealer do NOT need a copy, all they need to do is confirm that the ffl they are shipping to is current.
First 3 and last 5 digits are all they need to run an ez check.

As for why they insist they do???

Thats what they have been told/heard and before the ezcheck, the only way to confirm the ffl was good
Click to expand...


This is it. It’s easy to confirm on the ATF website

I don’t understand why some FFL’s are so paranoid about people getting a copy of their license. It is public record anyy
 
I asked for it as proof that I shipped the pistol to a dealer.
My auction stated that the pistol would only be shipped to a FFL dealer after receipt of payment and copy of FFL where the firearm would be sent.
I also included absolutely no face to face sales, its going to be sent to a dealer for transfer, period.
 
I've found it handy to have a copy of the addressee's FFL and the relevant Postal Regs, at the PO counter. Usually need to get a mangler involved because the counter staff are ignant, and the mangler usually asks to keep the FFL. Works for me, gets the job done.
 
edwardware said:
I've found it handy to have a copy of the addressee's FFL and the relevant Postal Regs, at the PO counter. Usually need to get a mangler involved because the counter staff are ignant, and the mangler usually asks to keep the FFL. Works for me, gets the job done.
Click to expand...
I ship long guns via USPS every week.
1. Box, measure, weigh and print shipping label at home.
2. Drop off box at local post office, having no more contact than a smile.
3. Go home drama free.

Why it becomes a production for others I do not get.
No USPS regulation requires a copy of anyone's FFL.
Allowing USPS/UPS/FedEx counter clerks to invent their own, PERSONAL requirements.....heck, you are just giving up what little right you already possess. In addition you make it more difficult on the next guy trying to follow the letter of the law and ship a firearm.

Don't do more than what is required by law if you truly love your freedom.
 
dogtown tom said:
2. Drop off box at local post office, having no more contact than a smile. . . Why it becomes a production for others I do not get.
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Because you're breaking the law. USPS Regs, with the power of law, require that you notify USPS that the package contains a firearm.

Edit: well, well. . . It would appear that the statue (18 U.S.C. 1715, 922) requires notice only Common Carriers, NOT to the USPS. Looks like Gun Broker et al got it slightly wrong. I stand corrected.
 
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edwardware said:
Because you're breaking the law. USPS Regs, with the power of law, require that you notify USPS that the package contains a firearm.
Click to expand...

This could get interesting....I have seen enough of Toms posts on several forums to know he rarely posts information that he hasnt researched, and most of the time provides links to back him up.
 
I have found that UPS and Fedex clerks (at regional centers, not local shops) will generally accept an ezcheck printout for shipping to a dealer, if the names and addresses match.
 
edwardware said:
Because you're breaking the law. USPS Regs, with the power of law, require that you notify USPS that the package contains a firearm.

Edit: well, well. . . It would appear that the statue (18 U.S.C. 1715, 922) requires notice only Common Carriers, NOT to the USPS. Looks like Gun Broker et al got it slightly wrong. I stand corrected.
Click to expand...

Actually, if you are shipping to an FFL, you are not required by law to notify a common carrier either. UPS and FedEx tariffs do require verbal notification, so you will need ot notify them if you want to insure the package.

18 U.S.C. §922(e) It shall be unlawful for any person knowingly to deliver or cause to be delivered to any common or contract carrier for transportation or shipment in interstate or foreign commerce, to persons other than licensed importers, licensed manufacturers, licensed dealers, or licensed collectors, any package or other container in which there is any firearm or ammunition without written notice to the carrier that such firearm or ammunition is being transported or shipped;
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Notification is required only if it is going to a party other than those listed above and then it must be in writing. Neither UPS, FedEx and probably the majority of the remaining contract carriers will allow you to ship to a party not mentioned above, so the point is mostly moot.
 
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Ephraim Kibbey said:
Find another local FFL who WILL send their info to the seller.
Click to expand...

I have one a mom and pop store, and have bought a lot from them, several guns and a couple safes. They charge $50 for a transfer though, so the other one ( a mega gun store) I use as I can they charge $35 and $10 extra for multiple transfers but it has to come from another FFL otherwise they don't want to send the license copy to a private seller.
 
cjwils said:
I have found that UPS and Fedex clerks (at regional centers, not local shops) will generally accept an ezcheck printout for shipping to a dealer, if the names and addresses match.
Click to expand...
I have never had one of them even ask for that. If you're sending to a brick and mortar, they can tell by the address anyway.
 
CDW4ME said:
I asked for it as proof that I shipped the pistol to a dealer.
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Sorry, but having a copy of some dealers FFL is only proof that you have an FFL copy. The only way to prove that your firearm shipment was delivered to an FFL is getting a signature on delivery or by sending with return receipt requested. Neither requires that you have his FFL copy in your hands.
 
lionking said:
I have one a mom and pop store, and have bought a lot from them, several guns and a couple safes. They charge $50 for a transfer though, so the other one ( a mega gun store) I use as I can they charge $35 and $10 extra for multiple transfers but it has to come from another FFL otherwise they don't want to send the license copy to a private seller.
Click to expand...
You need to find a new FFL.;)
 
edwardware said:
Because you're breaking the law. USPS Regs, with the power of law, require that you notify USPS that the package contains a firearm.

Edit: well, well. . . It would appear that the statue (18 U.S.C. 1715, 922) requires notice only Common Carriers, NOT to the USPS. Looks like Gun Broker et al got it slightly wrong. I stand corrected.
Click to expand...
1. It has nothing to do with common carriers.
2. The only time USPS regulations require notification is when a licensed dealer or manufacturer is shipping a firearm OTHER THAN a rifle or shotgun. They do this by submitting a USPS Form 1508 with the package.
3. GunBroker gets quite a bit wrong, and despite being told so refuses to correct.
 
cjwils said:
I have found that UPS and Fedex clerks (at regional centers, not local shops) will generally accept an ezcheck printout for shipping to a dealer, if the names and addresses match.
Click to expand...
No UPS or FedEx policy requires showing the clerk an FFL, much less an EZcheck printout. So DON'T DO IT! You make life difficult for every other customer following UPS/FedEx policies.

The fix is simple...…...print out the policy right from the carriers page. Since neither requires an FFL you won't need one. If the clerk balks....ask for a supervisor. Educate those counter clerks on what their company actually requires. Taking the extra four minutes means freedom. Freedom for you, freedom for me, freedom for every other customer through that counter. Have the heart of a teacher, not of a servant.
 
Find a different FFL, most individual shipping a firearm out of State are going to ask for a copy of the FFL they are sending it to. They aren't just going to mail a gun off to an address the buyer tells them. Yes there is EZ check but a copy of the FFL for their own records is handy in case the ATF ever asks them what they did with the gun they have a copy. Not giving a copy of the FFL out is annoying in my opinion, if someone is going to photoshop an address they can just grab any old FFL online, and they can photoshop the name too, they aren't going to go through the hassle of setting up a gunbroker account, validate their identiy, setup a bank account/CC on file, and acquire a firearm so they can sell it just so they can get a copy of a random FFL. A copy of the FFL is for doing business, if they're doing business with a private seller just give it to them, otherwise they can say they don't accept transfers from private sellers and let their competition get the money.
 
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