.45 Colt

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Steve S.

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I have a Miroku (made) Winchester Sporting rifle and three USFA revolvers in .45 Colt; I shoot the old standby 250 LRN over 8.0 grains of Unique. In the rifle, you can tell that the rounds hit with authority however, the recoil/ report of the rifle is a pussycat - very easy to shoot. On the contrary, the 7 1/2 “ USFA fells like a magnum revolver - recoil/ report is quite strong/ sharp. I understand the physics of the rifle vs revolver but the difference in recoil/ report seems more than just the physics. My gut tells me it must be the gripping design of the revolver also, not enough real estate to get my “pinky” finger around the grip (it lays naturally underneath the grip). Is this grip proper or is there another way to hold a “western” style frame more efficiently? Thanks.
 
Nope... the grip is the grip, unless you have tiny hands. The recoil is also a byproduct of the weight of the bullet, if you drop that down to a 225grn or even a 200grn bullet, even over the same charge of Unique, felt recoil will be significantly less.
 
Like said above, if you have a big band your pinky ends up under the grip.

While 8.0gr Unique is not at the max under a 250gr bullet according to Lyman it is getting up there. Alliant goes even higher to 9.5gr Unique so it's possible you are slightly recoil sensitive. If it bothers you, you can always drop down to a 7.0gr charge which will reduce the felt recoil but you might not want to shoot that load in a Carbine length barrel.

Sorry, that is probably very little help.
 
Think that's why a lot of folks prefer the Bisley style grip. I personally could never get comfortable with the plow handle grip and switched to DA revolvers.
Still own a single six but it's a .22 so it doesn't really apply here. The 255gr. lead SWC with 8 gr. of Unique is the old standby and should be perfectly safe.
Been shooting them out of my Mountain gun for years with no ill effect. Might want to try a shooting glove, that may help.
 
The original 45 Colt round, as introduced in 1873 in the Colt SAA, was the Magnum of its day. It bucked, and roared, and took down men and horses and most anything else tht got in front of it. Originally a 255g bullet over 40g @ 900 fps from the 7.5" Colt, the Ordinance Dept reduced the load to a 250g over 30g soon after introduction, so the troops didn't hurt their hands. Then when the mix up over the 45 Schofield came along they reduced both the bullet weight to 230g, and the powder charge to 28g. This remained the military issue round for 25-30 years.

Civilian ammo makers loaded the 45 Colt with various charges and bullet weights. 250g to 255g were the norm but lighter bullets. like the military 230 were offered. Civilian powder charges were all over the map. From the light military load 28g, ammo was offered with charges of 30g, 32g, 35g, 38g and even in the 1880s one company went back to the original 40g loading.

Chronograph you load. If you getting around 850 with a 250g bullet you experiencing most of what the 45 Colt is all about. And yes it is a handful! (I have no idea where the italics came from?)

Dave


 
the design of that gun allows it to rotate in your hand. don't fight the recoil and let it rotate.

the pinky under the grip is a correct one.

the weight of the firearm is the difference in recoil in this case. felt recoil is further reduced by the larger surface area of the rifle butt plate as opposed to the heel of the grip on the revolver.

murf
 
Howdy

A whole bunch of years ago I noticed a friend wrapping a bandaide around the knuckle of his middle finger at a CAS match before proceeding to the loading table to load up his pistols. He was shooting 45 Colt, and mild loads at that. That's when I realized that the knuckle of my middle finger was never whacked in recoil, even though I was shooting full house Black Powder loads under a 250 grain bullet. My friend, on the other hand, was squeezing his entire hand onto the grip. This placed the knuckle of his middle finger directly against the trigger guard, and every time he fired the trigger guard would whack his knuckle.

You will notice in this photo that by tucking my pinky under the grip, my hand winds up a little bit lower on the grip, and this opens up about 1/4" of space between my knuckle and the trigger guard.

I never get whacked by the trigger guard.

Holding%20a%20Colt%2001_zpsyicgwc9e.jpg




I have fairly large hands. Even with my pinky under the grip, I can still reach the hammer spur to cock the hammer.

Holding%20a%20Colt%2002_zpsx2mqjvq8.jpg




This of course is directly opposite to everything you have been taught, conventional wisdom says that the hand should choke up as much as possible on the grip, to lower the bore as close as possible to the hand, to reduce muzzle flip. That works fine with most semi-automatics where it is impossible to get any fingers behind the trigger guard. Not so much with a heavy recoiling revolver.

Not that my BP loads are in the 44 Magnum class, but recoil is still stout.

I do not hold the pistol in a death grip. I allow the plowhandle shaped grip to rotate naturally in my hand during recoil. What actually happens is the grip rotates a bit until my pinky stops it. Then the remainder of the recoil impulse lifts my hand and fore arm up a bit at the elbow.

I have been doing this for many years.

Try it, you may like it.

Pistol%2002_zpsx1mghgzu.jpg




P.S. Your 8.0 grain load of Unique under a 250 grain bullet is the classic load for 45 Colt. Don't go any higher than 8.0 grains of Unique, it is listed as the Max in a couple of my loading manuals.. Back when I was shooting Smokeless my standard 45 Colt load was a bit lighter, 7.5 grains of Unique under a 250 grain bullet.

You might want to try Black Powder sometime. I can only stuff about 33 grains of FFg into a modern solid head case without compressing the dickens out of the powder. Not the old 40 grain load, but a bit more than the later 30 grain Army load.

45ColtBenetPrimedBox02_zps0e1df06e.jpg
 
The 8.0 grains of Unique under a 250 load is pretty mild, recoil in my 4-5/8” BH has been hardly bothersome for the 40+ years I’ve used that load. I did shoot much stouter loads too, and being a hunter rather than a purist I screwed on a set of Pachmayr grips. Worked for me.
 
I have big hands but I have found that slimmer grips on all my CAS revolvers really make shooting easier. Especially on my original Vaquero .45 Colt with 7.5” barrel. I also have slim grips in my .357 Vaqueros. The slimmer allows for a less awkward grip. Your little finger still curls underneath but it’s a more comfortable grip.

I did a little search for USFA SAA slimmer grips and found this link. Perhaps this may help you - look at “competition” grip.
https://classicsingleaction.com/grip-profiles



I load 205 grain Bear Creek Supply moly coated RNFP bullet over 7.7 grains of Universal. It’s a nice load that I estimate to travel at 900 FPS. Yes, it’s a little stout but there is no mistaking hits versus misses. Loading the 205 with less powder really makes for a very pleasant shooting round.
 
I too like the slimmer grips on these guns. Usually I prefer thicker grips but not on my 1873's. I even find my DE 44 w/Hogue grips to be comfortable.

And +1 on the little finger under the grip...works quite well.
 
If after adjusting your hold on the revolver you find the recoil of 8.0 gr Unique still a bit strong for your liking, try 7.7 grains powder.
 
Think that's why a lot of folks prefer the Bisley style grip. I

I took these photos to help a fellow out about the differences between the regular grip, and the Bisley. These are both, obviously, Rugers, but you get the idea...

SAA grip...

dxYmMhsl.jpg

Bisley grip...

ZX0DjC8l.jpg

I have fairly big hands.
 
I have XL hands. My first handgun was a Ruger Single Six. SA revolvers are still my favorite handgun to shoot.

Driftwood is a great resource.

As he said, I tuck my pinky under the grips and don't squeeze it hard. Shooting 45 colt that way is NBD once you get used to it.

My FiL and I both have 7.5" Ruger Super Blackhawks in 44 magnum. I much prefer my plowhandle grip to his Bisley. He likes the Bisley better. Different strokes for different folks.
 
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I didn't know what I was doing by instinct was correct until I found the site. I have hunted and shot many years and always had my pinkie under the grip. I now have some Bisley grips but the verdict is out on which is better.
 
The 8.0 grains of Unique under a 250 load is pretty mild, recoil in my 4-5/8” BH has been hardly bothersome for the 40+ years I’ve used that load. I did shoot much stouter loads too, and being a hunter rather than a purist I screwed on a set of Pachmayr grips. Worked for me.

Don't forget, you are talking about a Ruger Blackhawk, which has much thicker chamber walls than a Colt or the USFA the OP was talking about.

Here is a page from my old Lyman Pistol and Revolver loading handbook.

I was incorrect about 8.0 grains of Unique under a 250 grain bullet being the max.

According to my old manual, 9.0 grains of Unique under 250 grain bullet is the max, and 8.5 under a 255 grain bullet is the max.

I even wrote some notes about velocity with my 7.5 grain loads. It seems I shot those loads out of my old 7 1/2" Blackhawk. Hadn't looked at this in a long time, but there it is.

45%20Colt%20Loads%2001_zpsrr9gwh5i.jpg
 
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how about a "modified bisley" grip. many handloaders say they are using a "keith" bullet, but there is only one "keith" bullet for each cartridge type, so most are using a "modified keith" bullet.

murf
 
Don't forget, you are talking about a Ruger Blackhawk, which has much thicker chamber walls than a Colt or the USFA the OP was talking about....

Okay, but I’m not sure why that is relevant to my post. My Ruger has 3” less barrel than the OP’s, so weight is about the same while the shorter barrel accentuates muzzle flip. As far as strength, not an issue in either revolver since 8.0 grains of Unique is well below max in either revolver. Current Speer manual maximum charge weight with Unique and a 250-grain lead bullet in SSA-class revolvers is 9.5 grains.

If you are talking about the stouter loads I shot, the point was just that when recoil became excessive to me, I found a solution which worked - the OP might try that too if he wants. But If the OP didn’t like the 8.0-grain recoil, he wouldn’t load hotter anyway. I guess I just don’t get your point, sorry.


.
 
On the contrary, the 7 1/2 “ USFA fells like a magnum revolver - recoil/ report is quite strong/ sharp.

Don't grip too hard. Allow the revolver to roll in your hand. Don't try and "hold it down" either. Let it climb. I have "Ruger styled" Bisley in 500 Linebaugh, 4 3/4" barrel with no porting. It's quite manageable (not comfortable) if you let it do what it wants to and resist the temptation to fight it.


500 L African Hunter.jpg
 
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I have lady sized hands and I shoot with pinky under.

Discovered the benefit during/after I took my SAA to a USPSA style match.

With full power loads, I found my pinky felt abused, but it was still a better way to shoot it.
 
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