The perfect elk rifle.

Status
Not open for further replies.

H&Hhunter

Moderator
Staff member
Joined
Jan 28, 2003
Messages
13,287
Well okay there is no such thing as the “perfect” elk rifle. The reason there is no such thing as the perfect elk rifle is there are so many different ways to hunt elk and the terrain varies so much in elk country.

I am going to comment on “my” perfect elk hunting rifle. And that rifle is not what you’ll see 99% of the guys on hunting shows carrying. Caliber; bullet technology has severely lessened the importance of caliber. The definition of an adequate elk caliber has widened drastically with the advent of laser range finders, easily dialed ranging systems for scopes and incredibly reliable bullets. Adequate also depends on your style of hunting.

I usually find myself tracking elk to their bedding areas and then slowly cruising dark timber where elk hide out during the day. Many of my elk kills are at fairly close range and often on elk that are not standing perfectly broadside. I want a round that will give deep straight line penetration and a bullet that will reliably hold together and retain weight. In my world the worst combo for an elk rig is high velocity combined with low SD and a fragile bullet. I like a quality controlled expansion bullet, with an SD of about .270 or greater. I just can’t get away from the .375 H&H with 270 gr TSX and now LRX bullets. That combo gives me ultimate confidence on up close snap shots and I am perfectly comfortable shooting at 400 plus yards with that combo too. The same could be done with multiple other lighter calibers with good bullets. But I am who’s I am and I likes what I likes and that combo has put a lot of elk meat in the freezer for me over the years.

As far as scopes go I like a low power variable, something in the 1x6 or 2x7 or 2.5x8 and have even been playing with a 2x12 recently. I have settled this year on a leupold VX 6 in 1x6 with a CDS dial. Whatever I choose it’s always mounted low to the bore with perfect eye alignment for quick snap shooting.

I tend to like shorter barrels, 20 to 24”. Ease of carry and handling trumps an extra 100 FPS in my book any day.

That’s my go to rig for elk. I’d be interested to hear what you like to carry and why. Happy hunting, I am getting all fired up and ready for elk hunting this year!
 
Elk are big animals, though the one Elk hunter I talked to was using a 308 Win and he kept all of his shots under 300 yards. I forget the bullet he was using, but he had gone through several, one type actually exploded on the hide! Bullet integrity is very important.

I don't know why a 35 Whelen would not be a dynamite cartridge.

tgLZhpw.jpg

This 250 grain load was accurate, but it really kicked!

oljkZWP.jpg

a 225 grain, 35 caliber bullet going 2560 fps should give all the penetration anyone wants, and it starts out larger than a 270 or a 30 caliber bullet.

nfmzMs1.jpg

I made this heavy, because I do not like recoil

xNtltXs.jpg

wcaa970.jpg

nothing wrong with a 200 grain bullet. And it will hold eight inches at 300 yards

50Ze2ef.jpg

This Ruger #1 is a lightweight rifle, and it really kicks on the bench!

kQOicF4.jpg

VwoV8bN.jpg
 
Elk are big animals, though the one Elk hunter I talked to was using a 308 Win and he kept all of his shots under 300 yards. I forget the bullet he was using, but he had gone through several, one type actually exploded on the hide! Bullet integrity is very important.

I don't know why a 35 Whelen would not be a dynamite cartridge.

View attachment 857781

This 250 grain load was accurate, but it really kicked!

View attachment 857782

a 225 grain, 35 caliber bullet going 2560 fps should give all the penetration anyone wants, and it starts out larger than a 270 or a 30 caliber bullet.

View attachment 857783

I made this heavy, because I do not like recoil

View attachment 857784

View attachment 857785

nothing wrong with a 200 grain bullet. And it will hold eight inches at 300 yards

View attachment 857786

This Ruger #1 is a lightweight rifle, and it really kicks on the bench!

View attachment 857787

The .35 Whelen IS a dynamite elk cartridge. Among the finest in my opinion.
 
Hunters are killing elk at near 1/2 mile with 243's. Not that I advocate doing so, but the fact that it can be done convinces me that a 308 or 30-06 is more than enough. But using what you're comfortable with is the key. There is the camp that likes the 33-37 calibers, but for every elk killed with rifles greater than 30 caliber there are probably 100 killed with calibers 30 and under. My experience is more limited, but I can read. Perusing this and other forums year after year I see truck loads of dead elk cleanly taken by smaller rounds.

A 1-6X scope would probably be near perfect for all around conditions. I have one on an AR and am liking it, but most of my hunting rifles wear 3-9X40's. My favorite is the discontinued Zeiss Conquest (made by Meopta). Cabelas carried the scope with their badges on it for a while. When they discontinued them at $250 I bought 2. They were initially $550 each. That is the scope on the rifle in the photo.

I carried this Winchester 70 EW in 308 last fall. With 180gr Accubonds I have confidence the round would work out to at least 400 yards. But that is as far as my comfort level goes when shooting at game, and conditions would have to be perfect at that. I have a very similar set up in 30-06. But I shoot this one a touch better and at 400 and under don't see where it does anything the 308 won't do.


elk3 026.JPG
 
Remington 7600. 30-06. 180 gr Partitions. Leupold VX-3 2.5-8x36 with normal duplex reticle.

That is what I would bring to the elk hunt that most likely will never be. Good that I already possess said rifle. It is a great North American slayer.
 
Me and my dad with help from John van patten, he was p.o.ackleys old shop Forman built a rifle for a elk hunt we were planning. Used a cut up 1903 Springfield, some custom work like a new.bolt handle and opening the bolt and rail work, some other stuff to.

gun was in 358 Norma mag, and it was extremely accurate. I'm the 1/3 moa range from a good bench.

Unfortunately in 2003 when we.were.planing are trip my parents got divorced, I was 12 and my dad got custody. Never did go for elk, really like to.

Last year I had to sell the rifle, because I was layed off. Had some photos but my laptop just draped out and all the memory was wiped.

I think the 358nm is a great elk cartridge and if to build/ buy a new rifle it would be.high on my list.
 
Not that I advocate doing so, but the fact that it can be done convinces me that a 308 or 30-06 is more than enough. But using what you're comfortable with is the key. There is the camp that likes the 33-37 calibers, but for every elk killed with rifles greater than 30 caliber there are probably 100 killed with calibers 30 and under.
]

Absolutely correct on both accounts and now more than ever. Over .30 cal rounds seem to be losing favor in a big way. Which makes me want use them even more.:)
 
Of what I have, what I would use is my Ruger American in 6.5 CM, with premium bullets. I would mount my Horus Falcon 5-20, and carry my range finder and PDA with the applicable data, backed up with a laminated cheat card glued to the stock. This data would be equally as important as the rifle/scope/ammo/range finder.
 
Hunters are killing elk at near 1/2 mile with 243's. Not that I advocate doing so, but the fact that it can be done convinces me that a 308 or 30-06 is more than enough

Unethical people treat animals as video arcade targets, and do make kills at extreme range, but how many animals run off and die a suffering death?

I looked the 103 gr Hornady ELD-X which is a high ballistic hunting bullet. Hornady claims 0.512 BC. It also requires a 1:8 twist. One half mile is 880 yards, so lets assume 900 yards is the distance from shooter to animal. I could not find 103 gr reloading data, but I found lots of 100 grain data, and 2750 fps seems reasonable, though some loads were pushing 2800 + fps. Given a 200 yard zero, it takes 26.1 MOA of elevation to be on at 900 yards. That's nineteen and a half feet of bullet drop, actually nothing compared to a 308 Win at that distance. Given the lethal zone of most animals is eight inches, someone is going to have to have damn good zeros at 900 yards, and be 100% spot on for windage, to keep all bullets within eight inches at 900 yards. But more telling was the velocity. Bullets fail to expand somewhere around 1800 fps. At 800 yards the bullet is traveling 1534 fps, and at 900 yards, 1417 fps. So, a 243 bullet launched at that range is not going to expand.

So, sure, someone could fire for effect at 900 yards, get enough rounds in the vicinity to poke one tiny 0.243 hole in a 700 pound animal, which is likely to run off and die miles away. Given enough tries, they will get one that falls dead on the spot. Even a blind pig can find an acorn in the woods. But we only read/hear about the animals that were retrieved, not the ones that got away. I will also say, 900 yards is a long way to find game. I have gotten lost finding a squirrel that fell off a tree 30 yards away. Maybe GPS will help, for the long range guys, but I had to go back to my starting place several times, because the woods were so thick, and I was unable to travel in a straight line. How the heck does someone get to the spot they were shooting at, 900 yards away, when it looks so different, from 900 yards away? And then, what about the blood trail? I will bet the long range types don't pick up their gear and go 900 yards unless they see the animal fall. Which means a lot of suffering for the animals which are not dispatched cleanly.

These Elk have developed special adaptions to survive in the urban environment. It takes careful stalking, detailed and patient observation to pick them out from the background of city clutter. So evolved is their camouflage that hundreds, if not thousands of people pass them daily, without even noticing.

jAM6Ut1.jpg

2AP60hr.jpg

vIhpasa.jpg
 
Last edited:
2800 + fps.
Is probably on the light side for a vld type .243 loading in a long range build. I'd expect to see 3k-3100. The 103s too long for most factory twisted rifles, which is probably why there's little data, and why Hornady lists a 90eldx in it's PH .243 rounds.
the 6mm CM, which has very slightly less capacity, is factory spec'd at 3050.

As jmr said, not advocating long range hunting, especially with what I would consider a light for game weight cartridge anyway.
Simply submitting a bit more info.

Personally, were I given the opportunity to hunt elk, I'd take my Abolt in .375 Ruger, which is what I'd take for nearly any hunting I'm unfamiliar with.

8lbs 2oz, relatively short, and launches a 260-70gr bullet at 2850, into sub MOA clusters.
not only that it's shoots 250superformance gmxs, 270 Spears, and 260ABs to the same poi.

I'd equally be comfortable carrying my .280 and 168ablrs, or my fast 6.5s shooting a tougher 140 class, but my shot selection would be reduced.
 
I’ve only hunted a very small time in western states. We tend to lump western hunting into a single basket

Where I went, the terrain went from basically flat/rolling to mountainous and heavy timbered within 30 miles. What may have been ideal one area might be a handicap 30 minutes away

Were I going I would take my 7 mag with a 2-12 Leupold VX-6 with a heavily constructed hand loaded bullet
 
Hunters are killing elk at near 1/2 mile with 243's. Not that I advocate doing so, but the fact that it can be done convinces me that a 308 or 30-06 is more than enough. But using what you're comfortable with is the key. There is the camp that likes the 33-37 calibers, but for every elk killed with rifles greater than 30 caliber there are probably 100 killed with calibers 30 and under. My experience is more limited, but I can read. Perusing this and other forums year after year I see truck loads of dead elk cleanly taken by smaller rounds.

Absolutely correct on both accounts and now more than ever. Over .30 cal rounds seem to be losing favor in a big way. Which makes me want use them even more.:)

There's also a big difference between setting up at 200+ yards on a broadside elk and taking a controlled shot, and hunting thick timber and taking a quick shot on a quartering elk that is starting to move. In the latter scenario, it opens up your shot opportunities to have a large, heavy, well-constructed bullet that is going to smash its way through everything to break down an elk.
 
Where I hunt elk, it’s most likely you’ll have to make additional trips to pack one out.
Given that, there is a high probability that one or more grizzlies will be among the greeting party when you return.
My guides outfit requires at least a .30cal minimum, preferably .30/06 w180gr bonded bullets for guests.
They were elated when I showed up with Ruger African in .375R and Nosler 260gr Paritions and AccuBond loads. It’s timbered areas in Wyoming near Yellow Stone.... Most shots are under 250yds.
 
I have probably taken most of my elk with a 300 WM with 180 grain pills. The places I usually hunt are fairly open and often call for a 300 yard shot, but occasionally a close shot presents itself. I have taken a fair few elk with a 338 WM, and several with a 30-06, 7mm RM, 280, and 270. I use my 375 caliber rifles almost exclusively for African game. Elk really are not that hard to take cleanly with many cartridges, but I abhor the use of underpowered cartridges and super long range pokes at unwounded game.
 
I have 2 rifles that I could use on elk if my wife wins the lottery. First choice would be my Model 10 Savage 300 WSM. It wears a 2X7 Leupold and will shot sub-MOA all day. If it was a timber hunt the Savage 11 in 338 Federal would get the nod. A 200 gr pill at 2600 fps should work just fine.
 
B7CEFB5F-C878-497C-9B4E-23C51C43F83F.jpeg my youngest Daughter pictured here, the center hit is my 308 the bottom is a cold bore shot from her 300 Weatherby Mag at 200 yards up hill and over the hood of a truck, she even hits it with an old 3006 from 1917
Addendum- the Weatherby Bullet went right through the steel plate , notice her finger
 

Attachments

  • 21FA8ACC-E0CF-4BF8-AD3E-CE7C961D50B8.jpeg
    21FA8ACC-E0CF-4BF8-AD3E-CE7C961D50B8.jpeg
    151.1 KB · Views: 29
  • 3DCB4A4D-169E-4BC9-8D34-C6FF0A4491E9.jpeg
    3DCB4A4D-169E-4BC9-8D34-C6FF0A4491E9.jpeg
    131.8 KB · Views: 30
  • 5B2B89EE-8524-49B5-812F-609BD6D416FA.jpeg
    5B2B89EE-8524-49B5-812F-609BD6D416FA.jpeg
    205.7 KB · Views: 26
Last edited:
Other than the calibers, you've pretty much described my perfect whitetail rifle. I'm currently using a too long and heavy Mauser .280 Rem that followed me from my old hunting spot that had more long shooting along with it's 3x9 BDC optic. The dual grip thumbhole stock is appropriate though. I've found it much more stable for shooting from field positions and more pleasant to carry and sit with than a conventional sporter stock. The barrel is starting to get a little worn I think, may be time for a shorter and lighter tube in 7mm-08 or 6.5x55 to make better use of my magazine which is too short to run .280's out where they should be.

And am I the only one that wishes some of the mid priced "American" optics would come with a heavy 3P "German" reticle in a low-mid range variable with a 30mm tube instead of cranking out Hubble telescopes with busy reticles that nobody knows how to use properly anyway? The Swaros, etc are just a bit above my price point.
 
Lots of "perfect" rifles/cal offered up . All, in the eyes of those suggested, certainly qualify.
For me, all things being equal, it`s the 06. Or maybe a 7mmag. Or back in the day, the old Win 94 in 30-30. Perfect is as one sees it.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top