6.5 Win Mag !!!!!!

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sd550

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Well, that's what the .264 Win Mag should be called and maybe it would bring the old girl back, what's your thoughts ?
 
Well it was one of the big case magnums developed in the late 50s when big was better. Good long range cartridge but it was over bore and burned out barrels pretty quick. Is it something you need to hunt with. It sure isn't a shoot it alot plinking cartridge. I think there are more balanced rounds today to give similar performance. jmo
 
I like the ring of 6.5 Creedmoor Magnum.

The .264 Win Mag and the .257 Wby Mag are fantastic plains cartridges. There was a time that if you were going muley hunting in WY, you brought your gear and your .264 Magnum.
 
sd550 said:
Well, that's what the .264 Win Mag should be called and maybe it would bring the old girl back, what's your thoughts ?
Click to expand...

I think the cases look really “interesting” when they are fired out of a 300 Weatherby.

I wish I had asked for one or at least had a camera, fellow couldn’t hit anything with it...
 
cdb1 said:
When I was 10 and my brother was 4 I made him into a unicorn by epoxying a cow horn to his forehead. During the removal process a good amount of skin came off with the horn. I received one of my more memorable beatings for that little escapade.
Click to expand...
Sorry but I laughed way to long after reading that. Reminded me of the story my dad tells about the time he through shotgun shells in the pot belly stove.
 
My thoughts? With the price and sometimes local scarcity of powder I’ll choose new and efficient and just as good or better than yesteryear that’s also stocked on the shelves today. The reality of 8 shooters in the family and a wife that does not spend her money on firearms related anything means I’m on a budget that has to make compromises.
 
If you really want a challenge, how about trying to bring back the 6.5 Rem Mag.

It has a bit going for it. Short action even. Way ahead of its time in regards to being a short action Magnum. Is there a 6.5mm short Magnum out yet? Seems like someone would have reinvented that wheel in the last few years considering the renewed interest in all things 6.5mm.

Oh and yeah. Its so scarce as to be considered obsolete. One of the more spectacular modern cartridge failures.
 
The virtue of the .264 and .257 Magnums are they shoot flat. When most hunters were using MPBR, that flatness significantly increased range. With most hunters using laser range finders, and BDC reticles or custom BDC turrets, is that little extra bit of flatness worth it? The cost is high recoil and faster throat erosion and therefore shorter barrel life. Lower recoil alone would probably result in more hits and when the rifle gets shot more often in practice that increases even more.

Here's the other thing. Those belted Magnums are flatter than something like Creedmoor, but they're not longer range. There are two things about the Magnums that conspire against using the kind of extreme low drag bullets that give Creedmoor and PRC cartridges their reach. The first is twist rate. Most of the Magnums have 1:9, whereas the very long ELD bullets need 1:8 or less to stabilize. The other thing is the location of the case neck in relation to the overall length. The Creedmoor and PRC are set back to allow for a very long ogive. The Magnums would exceed the magazine and receiver length if the same bullets were seated. Remember those "Magnums" were actually not .375 H&H Magnum action length. They were shortened H&H Magnum cases. They were shortened enough to fit into a standard-length receiver. They're not designed to hold very long bullets, but instead, they hold a lot of powder for small bullets.

Of the belted magnums, the .300 has its place in long-range because it's been established there for some time. But it's been outclassed in LRP shooting by the 300 and 6.5 PRC and other cartridges. The belted magnums could still be a good choice for hunting, but here is why I think not. It's clear because of their big-powder load, shorter-bullet design, the magnums (the belted magnums like 257 Wby, .264 Win, and 7mm Rem) are going to shoot flat and hit hard in normal hunting ranges (out to 300 yards). Now factor in light-weight, monolithic copper bullets (because who wants to eat meat splattered with lead at over 3000 fps?). The copper monos (TSX, TTSX, GMX, E-Tips) will stay together at high velocity, but they are usually lighter weight for the maximum length allowed by the neck position, magazine length, receiver length, and twist rate. So unless you are shooting game at 300 yards or more, they will strike the meat at about 3000 fps. At a more common 100 yard range, a shot could destroy a lot more meat than a more sensible non-magnum.

So basically these belted magnums trade-off practically everything for flatness out to 300 yards. They have:

higher recoil
use more powder
faster throat erosion
shorter barrel life
more meat destroyed at most common hunting distances
shorter range than low-drag LRP cartridges
and they require a standard (long) action receiver whereas other cartridges offer greater performance out of a shorter action

Here's one more thing: With good bullet selection, nobody could tell the difference between the belted magnums like the .264 WM and 7mm RM and a good ol' .270 Win. You have to look hard at the ballistics charts to see any difference, and in the real world, it's just not there.


FWIW, I do not have a rifle chambered in Creedmoor, PRC, or 270. I am not a "fan-boy." I am a regular American that has to win the lottery before I can shoot one deer. I don't need a Magnum or a 1000 yard rifle to shoot a little deer on the rare occasion I win the lottery. I'd really rather get the opportunity to hunt game with my children, and they don't need a Magnum or a 1000 yard rifle either. I apply for an Elk tag every year so someday I can have what will probably be a once in a lifetime chance to fill a bull Elk tag. But if that chance comes, it's going to cost me that entire year's time off work to fill the tag (which means zero for my family), not to mention the expense of having the quarters packed out and processed. What I'm saying is, don't expect enthusiasm (and sales) for something that most rifle owners will never do anything with and really have no use for.
 
My first rifle in 6.5 was a 6.5 Rem Mag. It’s a 1:8 twist semi-heavy barrel on a Mauser action. Of course it’s got a brake. Bought it at a gun show many years ago. Brass was still available those days and I collected a bunch over the years. Shoots 1 hole groups with the right load and 1 bullet. After that, no telling what’ll happen.

Seriously, on a 5 shot group I’ll always have 1 flyer and there’s no predicting which one it will be. It would be a 3/4” rifle if I threw the flyer out. It’s still killed many a whitetail though.

This rifle started my obsession with 6.5’s, and for the most part that’s all I shoot now. Thanks to this thread I think I’ll dust it off and hunt with that old Mauser this year.
 
cdb1 said:
When I was 10 and my brother was 4 I made him into a unicorn by epoxying a cow horn to his forehead. During the removal process a good amount of skin came off with the horn. I received one of my more memorable beatings for that little escapade.
Click to expand...

Two friends of mine have a little sister who (at the time) had extremely curly red hair. They didn't like it. They found a can of green spray paint and painted green dots in her hair. They decided that looked even worse so the cut out the green dots, pretty much to the skin thinking their parents wouldn't notice if everything was red again.

They noticed. :D

On the actual subject at hand, I've seriously contemplated getting a 264 Win Mag as a dedicated hunting rifle. I'm probably going with a 280 AI instead (or a 6.5-06 AI).

Matt
 
labnoti said:
The virtue of the .264 and .257 Magnums are they shoot flat. When most hunters were using MPBR, that flatness significantly increased range. With most hunters using laser range finders, and BDC reticles or custom BDC turrets, is that little extra bit of flatness worth it? The cost is high recoil and faster throat erosion and therefore shorter barrel life. Lower recoil alone would probably result in more hits and when the rifle gets shot more often in practice that increases even more.

Here's the other thing. Those belted Magnums are flatter than something like Creedmoor, but they're not longer range. There are two things about the Magnums that conspire against using the kind of extreme low drag bullets that give Creedmoor and PRC cartridges their reach. The first is twist rate. Most of the Magnums have 1:9, whereas the very long ELD bullets need 1:8 or less to stabilize. The other thing is the location of the case neck in relation to the overall length. The Creedmoor and PRC are set back to allow for a very long ogive. The Magnums would exceed the magazine and receiver length if the same bullets were seated. Remember those "Magnums" were actually not .375 H&H Magnum action length. They were shortened H&H Magnum cases. They were shortened enough to fit into a standard-length receiver. They're not designed to hold very long bullets, but instead, they hold a lot of powder for small bullets.

Of the belted magnums, the .300 has its place in long-range because it's been established there for some time. But it's been outclassed in LRP shooting by the 300 and 6.5 PRC and other cartridges. The belted magnums could still be a good choice for hunting, but here is why I think not. It's clear because of their big-powder load, shorter-bullet design, the magnums (the belted magnums like 257 Wby, .264 Win, and 7mm Rem) are going to shoot flat and hit hard in normal hunting ranges (out to 300 yards). Now factor in light-weight, monolithic copper bullets (because who wants to eat meat splattered with lead at over 3000 fps?). The copper monos (TSX, TTSX, GMX, E-Tips) will stay together at high velocity, but they are usually lighter weight for the maximum length allowed by the neck position, magazine length, receiver length, and twist rate. So unless you are shooting game at 300 yards or more, they will strike the meat at about 3000 fps. At a more common 100 yard range, a shot could destroy a lot more meat than a more sensible non-magnum.

So basically these belted magnums trade-off practically everything for flatness out to 300 yards. They have:

higher recoil
use more powder
faster throat erosion
shorter barrel life
more meat destroyed at most common hunting distances
shorter range than low-drag LRP cartridges
and they require a standard (long) action receiver whereas other cartridges offer greater performance out of a shorter action

Here's one more thing: With good bullet selection, nobody could tell the difference between the belted magnums like the .264 WM and 7mm RM and a good ol' .270 Win. You have to look hard at the ballistics charts to see any difference, and in the real world, it's just not there.


FWIW, I do not have a rifle chambered in Creedmoor, PRC, or 270. I am not a "fan-boy." I am a regular American that has to win the lottery before I can shoot one deer. I don't need a Magnum or a 1000 yard rifle to shoot a little deer on the rare occasion I win the lottery. I'd really rather get the opportunity to hunt game with my children, and they don't need a Magnum or a 1000 yard rifle either. I apply for an Elk tag every year so someday I can have what will probably be a once in a lifetime chance to fill a bull Elk tag. But if that chance comes, it's going to cost me that entire year's time off work to fill the tag (which means zero for my family), not to mention the expense of having the quarters packed out and processed. What I'm saying is, don't expect enthusiasm (and sales) for something that most rifle owners will never do anything with and really have no use for.
Click to expand...
I've got rifles chambered in 270 WSM, 270 Win, and 257 Weatherby. I have killed deer with all three recently. I handload for all three. I hunt deer in open country. An unpredictable environment, sometimes you would have time to range and click. Sometimes you are hurried to just get your sticks up. Will the 270 get the job done? Yes. The 270 WSM is a little more emphatic about it. A fantastic round. The 257 magnum is a bit of an enigma. You can drop a buck at 100 only to have him get back up. Then again at 275 yds they drop quite well to one shot. It is just very very fast.The 257 will flat make your ears ring.
If I had a trophy in the crosshairs at an even 300 yds. my most trustworthy rifle is my Kimber 270 WSM. I load 130 gr. Sierra GK.
My experience with 270 Win is that it is well suited for open country, with maybe a little less expansion of the bullets. More suited to shooters who aim right through the shoulder.
 
I like my 7wsm Browning for deer hunting, the 6.5s are nice I just like 7mms for some of the big deer we get up here. I have owned both 300/270 wsm and prefer them over the 270win the 3006 and the 300win mag.
 
A 150 grain @ 2750 will kill a critter from any gun no matter the head stamp on the cartridge. Guys get all wrapped around the axle about .001” and 25 FPS difference

The animal doesn’t care and is just as dead

I get a kick out of guys that make the most minuscule change then scream from the mountain top that it’s new, revolutionary, and the best thing ever

For me, instead of having a dozen different guns that are all the same, it makes more sense to have one and get good with it

YMMV
 
Last edited:
cdb1 said:
Remington changed the name of the .280 Remington and the .244 Remington and it didn’t increase sales. So I doubt changing the name of the .264 Winchester Magnum will do anything for sales.
Click to expand...

If only they would have changed the twist rate of the 244/6mm the 243 would be playing second fiddle.

The 280 really should have been more popular but O'Conner and the 30-06 military use made the 280 less popular. A shame really.

Now a 280 O'Conner might have caught on
 
redneck2 said:
A 150 grain @ 2750 will kill a critter from any gun no matter the head stamp on the cartridge.
Click to expand...
But the head stamp on the cartridge and the label on the rifle can also mean whether or not you hit the critter you're shooting at.
 
For the last 40 years I've heard hunters complain about "magnumitis" Why do manufacturers keep making bigger, faster, harder kicking magnum rifles when they aren't necessary they asked? The 264 Winchester was probably the epitome of the magnum craze and it didn't catch on for good reasons. The 6.5 CM on the other hand is the most sensible, well balanced, and versatile cartridge developed in my life time. Sure there are faster 6.5's, but 99% of the shooters out there aren't good enough to take advantage of that speed. And now shooters complain that the 6.5CM is a step down because it is slower than previous rounds.

Sure we had the similar 260 and 6.5X55 but to fully take advantage of them requires custom rifles and non standard hand loads. It was those people using both the 260 and 6.5X55 in modified form that approached Hornady and asked them to develop a cartridge that would be available off the shelf that would do what they were doing.

For hunting there is nothing magical about any of them. I'm married to the 30 caliber cartridges simply because that is where I started in the 1970's. I'm in my 60's now with several nice rifles that I like and shoot well in 308 and 30-06. At this point I'm not going to sell them and start over with another cartridge. But the older I get the more I realize the cartridge headstamp nor caliber really matter. Good bullets with suitable sectional density for the game hunted impacting at speeds fast enough to expand gets the job done and anything 26 caliber on up works for virtually any big game animal. And out to 300 yards trajectory simply isn't an issue with any of them. Out to at least 500 there isn't enough difference between a slow 308 and one of the fast 25-28 calibers that modern optics can't compensate for.
 
6.5 Creedmoor Magnum?!? I thought that was what the 6.5 PRC was supposed to be.

I have a friend that suggested that the 264 Winchester Magnum should be renamed the 6.5 Crescent Magnum because that was the shape of the scar over his eyebrow that the scope gave him after he cuddled up a bit close while taking a long, long shot at a deer...
 
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