Snub Nose 38 Special

Have read a lot of older LEO's used 148 WC , several loads for Snub nose revolvers is now available like Federal .38spl +p HST.

What about your reloads? Never carried them. Read online it's a bear to reload. Especially under stress.

This is an extremely interesting presentation on bullet expansion and penetration in ballistic gel:

.38 Special and .357 Magnum Self-Defense Ammo Ballistics Test

As you can see in the table, the Winchester 148 gr Match Wadcutter will penetration 15.8 inches in a snubbie. Which is entirely adequate. The 158 grain bullets penetrate well, some more than others. None of the 158's in the table are LRN or LSWC, all are hollowpoints. However, when the LSWCHP did not expand, it was in the two inch revolver, and the penetration was high.

I am of the opinion that a 38 Special snubbie is the minimum for self defense, and given its limitations, I just stick with 158 grain bullets if the revolver is sighted in for the things. My S&W lightweights are sighted in for 125 grain bullets, so that is what I buy for them. Hope I never had to use any of them.

When I carry a 38, I used these....

https://www.speer-ammo.com/products...-dot-short-barrel-personal-protection/23921gd

Thankfully, I never had to “use” these

357smallbore

Check out luckygunner.com for their .38 Special and .357 Magnum self defense ammo ballistics test. Lots of interesting information there.

When I carry a 38, I used these....

https://www.speer-ammo.com/products...-dot-short-barrel-personal-protection/23921gd

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My go-to choice as well with my S&W snubbies.

357smallbore said:

Man if 5 shots don't stop the threat at the distance I stated. I'm in worse shape than I thought I'd be. And this isn't going up against a gang or a banzai charge.

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Might be more then one. Shoot move to cover reload.

This link was posted in another thread here on THR. It was a real eye opener for me. They tested .38 defensive ammo in a 2” barreled Kimber K6S and a 4” Ruger GP100. The ammo my S&W 442 shoots so well did poorly on the expansion. Hornady American Gunner .38 Spl.

I will try some of that Speer Gold Dot That rabid wombat posted. I don’t believe I have shot that yet.

They have a pretty extensive table with test results and photos.

https://www.luckygunner.com/labs/revolver-ballistics-test/

Back in the day a lot of folks carried wadcutters for sd. Some loaded their own a little hotter for more penetration while others loaded them backwards promoting expansion. Wadcutters are not dependent on expansion to be effective as they have a cookie cutter effect while other loads may not expand & pass thru with little damage at all.

Use a load that is accurate in your gun, penetration is key and expansion is nice if it occurs. Here's a pic of my EDC .38 the speed strips has 158 gr SJHP on it. A fairly old tech load but guess what? It shoots to point of aim where lighter bullets don't. To me I think that history shows that in the .38 caliber we need the right bullet profile and the speed to break on through. It's hard to find a .38 that is not handloaded that offers adequate speed from a snub nose gun. I have chosen to utilize either a semi wadcutter or a semi wadcutter comparable load after having to shoot some "unruly creatures with them". First, the load must shoot to poi in your gun if it doesn't then shun the load (for YOUR gun), it needs to penetrate to reach vitals this is also a must, the expansion tests you see on the utube are done under the best of scenarios while they may offer some insight it does not compare to actual flesh and bone if you want to see how your bullets react when shooting mammalian flesh take up hunting

I'm using the 135 gr +p gold dots at the moment.

If I used something else, it would be 158 gr SWC or SWCHP. Maybe even hardcast.

I did until I had one bounce off the head of a opossum shot from 2’ away with 4” barrel revolver. We tried things like that back in the days when revolvers rode in our holsters and the ammo selections was poor.

Frankly , I maxed out on differing opinions and theories about 38 special defense ammo about a year back - now I load 148 gr wadcutters in my J frames.

As to reloading in a clinch - which is not at all the topic here , more of a "revolver - yes or no" argument - I subscribe to the "New York Reload" school of thought.

in my wife's J frame there are 110gr. hydra shoks. when I carry a J frame its the Rem. 158gr. LHP +p, same when I load the 2" model 64.

Read this for some of the reasons I carried DEWC when I carried a 38 Special S&W.

https://www.grantcunningham.com/2011/11/ed-harris-revisiting-the-full-charge-wadcutter/

Kevin

For those who plan on using a typical speed loader, it should be noted that wadcutter bullet profiles make for a less speedy reload in times of stress.

And yet folks who actually practice can make them work fine. Besides, who said the reload had to be WCs?

Kevin

StrawHat said:

Besides, who said the reload had to be WCs?

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Good point.

bannockburn said:

357smallbore

Check out luckygunner.com for their .38 Special and .357 Magnum self defense ammo ballistics test. Lots of interesting information there.

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Federal Micro 38+P 130 grain HST JHP - 13" average penetration, .73 consistent expansion out of a 2" barrel looks pretty good to me unless I'm missing something.

BSA1 said:

I did until I had one bounce off the head of a opossum shot from 2’ away with 4” barrel revolver. We tried things like that back in the days when revolvers rode in our holsters and the ammo selections was poor.

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+!^^^^^^^
WC's are fine until they hit anything hard or have to actually penetrate/go thru something solid. Used to hunt cottontail & groundhog with them, more often then not a headshot knocked them out while the wc bounced off of them. Brush was another issue, the wc's tended to either be stopped or deflect in it. A wc might sound good on paper, look to good to be true in gel but at the end of the day, a wc is only good on soft tissue. I've cast/tested/shot 75gr/110gr/140gr/148gr/160gr wc's over the decades. The only wc that had any real performance to it was the 160gr wc.

Only 800fps+ but the picture accurately represents what happens to a wc when it hits something solid.


Things like furniture, solid core doors, walls, trim around doors, etc ruin a wc's day. Next time your playing around with your easy shooting/easy handling "target wc loads" in your snubnosed 38spl's try using them against something other than paper. You'll find your +/- 700fps wc's don't do very well.

At the end of the day it comes down to weight & velocity.. Slow moving (+/- 830fps) light bullets that are designed to expand in short bbl.'s do as well as wc's on hard surfaces. Bullets in the 950fps to 1100fps+ in the snubnosed 38spl's tend to do better in all situations/barriers/surfaces/obstructions.

Myself I load a 158gr cast lead hp doing 950fps in a 2" bbl'd ca undercover. for the misses. Another bullet I started testing for the snubnosed 38spl is a 110gr rn "gallery" bullet, the bullet on the right.


Cast with a hardcast alloy (15bhn) they flat out penetrate things the wc's couldn't even begin to attempt. So far I've been testing that bullet with unique & it's been doing 1100fps+ out of the 2" bbl'd ca undercover.

Myself I'd rather use a 158gr cast hp doing 950fps or a 110gr rn doing 1100fps over a wc bullet or 130gr/135gr jacketed hp doing +/- 830fps.

stonebuster said:

Federal Micro 38+P 130 grain HST JHP - 13" average penetration, .73 consistent expansion out of a 2" barrel looks pretty good to me unless I'm missing something.

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I use the HST load in my Smith 442. I carry a speed strip of Hydra Shocks because it’s difficult to quickly reload the HSTs.

https://www.hornady.com/ammunition/handgun/38-special-p-110-gr-ftx-critical-defense#!/
It's hard for me to argue with the experts that have been doing this before I ever fired a gun. I know a 110 gr. bullet seems light but they seem to like it and they know a lot more about this stuff than I do.

Luckygunner put a video about this up on Youtube.