Need Advice on Loading Hardcast Lead Bullets with Gas Check

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gerrym526

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Guys,
I've been reloading for a while, but only using plated or jacketed bullets with no gas check (blue seal). Now I'd like to load my 357 magnum S&W for the woods, with 158 gr hardcast lead bullets-i.e. like the Buffalo Bore ammo products.
Is there anything different loading lead bullets with the gas check or seal? How deep to seat the bullet? Should the suggested C.O.L in Lyman, Speer, Hornady manuals be followed? Do I put a heavier crimp on the bullet? (using Lee Classic Turret Press with factory crimp die in the final station).
As far as powder, plan to use Hodgon 110.

And am I making my reloading life too complicated here? Will FMJ bullets in heavier weights (e.g. 180gr) deliver the same performance as hardcast when it comes to stopping big 4 legged creatures, and make reloading easier for me?

Thanks in advance for your help.
Gerry
 
Why are you asking about seating depth? Just like any bullet you load for revolver you seat the bullet so when you crimp its info the manufacturers supplied crimp groove. As with all cast bullets it's the correct depth for that bullet.

The gas check allows you to load to higher pressures with minimal risk of leading the barrel. I would not use jackets bullet data but full powder cast loads will work well as long as you maintain accuracy.
 
I have yet to load gas checked hardcast lead for .357, but have loaded them for .41 and .44 magnums.

There's nothing different about it really. I use lead bullet data, and seat to the crimp groove with a firm crimp. Then I wipe any excess lube of the bullet and case.

If you're interesting in a woods load, I'd go with 158gr at a minimum. My preference would be to see where a heavier bullet (170-180gr) hits with your gun as it is sighted; there's no point adjusting the sights for one load, only to adjust them for another. But there are some good options out there with wider meplats than LSWCs offer. I use Montana Bullet Works. The Lyman 50th manual has load data for many different lead bullet weights, as does their 4th Edition of Cast Bullet Handbook.
 
If you want to know about loading lead bullets get hold of a Lyman manual that has load data and other information on lead bullet casting, use of gas checks, etc. An all lead bullet with its lower bore friction will have greater velocity than a jacketed bullet of equal weight when using the same components and powder charge. It is always better to use data for the particular type of bullet. If you get a One Caliber compiled loading manual you will find load data for most bullet makers along with Lyman and RCBS data for lead bullets cast from their molds.
 
You called the gas check the (blue seal)?

Most gas checks I have seen are copper, are you confusing the lube grove with blue lube in it with a gas check?
 
For woods work, I’d shoot a heavy bullet with a wide meplat. FMJ’s will not perform the same.
 
With gas checks you can use jacketed data, since the base is fully covered.
Bad advice.
+1 (actually +mucho)
The bore seal/pressure buildup from a cast bullet is higher as compared to jacketed.

Hie thee to a cast bullet manual and/or the powder manufacturer's website for cast data.
Seat to the crimp groove closest to the OAL in the website.
With truly hard* cast bullets (Bn-22 or so) load near**max or they tend to otherwise lead things up.

* which by-the-way are not only unnecessary but unproductive --
**YMMV -- work up.
 
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Guys,
I've been reloading for a while, but only using plated or jacketed bullets with no gas check (blue seal). Now I'd like to load my 357 magnum S&W for the woods, with 158 gr hardcast lead bullets-i.e. like the Buffalo Bore ammo products.
Is there anything different loading lead bullets with the gas check or seal? How deep to seat the bullet? Should the suggested C.O.L in Lyman, Speer, Hornady manuals be followed? Do I put a heavier crimp on the bullet? (using Lee Classic Turret Press with factory crimp die in the final station).
As far as powder, plan to use Hodgon 110.

And am I making my reloading life too complicated here? Will FMJ bullets in heavier weights (e.g. 180gr) deliver the same performance as hard cast when it comes to stopping big 4 legged creatures, and make reloading easier for me?

Thanks in advance for your help.
Gerry

"And am I making my reloading life too complicated here?"
You and you alone have to determine "is the juice worth the squeeze".

I bought some/500 half jacketed Hornady 357 bullets a while back and loaded them up from the Hornady book/midrange, with a popular powder, "for the woods".

While testing/shooting the 2nd shot I heard a squeak when cocking the hammer so I let it back down and open the cylinder.
A half jacket was stuck in the forcing cone and rubbed the cylinder while it was turning causing the squeak, and the lead core was gone :what:.
I went home pulled those bullets, put the remaining bullet box in the bottom of my safe as a counter weight.
The rest of the powder became fertilizer and I never loaded another half-jacket or gas-checked bullet again:uhoh:

Even though I was shooting at low temps which may have been the contributing factor that caused this anomaly, I never took that risk again.
I decided to never load/shoot half-jackets or gas-checked bullets again...not worth it.
just me though,
:D
 
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The blue material is the waxy lube at about 2/3 height in a lube ring around the circumference of the bullet. A gas check (copper) envelopes the entire base of the bullet. Seat to crimp groove. Heavy crimp for full-house magnum loads - yes. H110 is 'full-house only'. When shooting, do a COL measurement of the same round before/after shooting all the others in a cyl to check for creep. Binding a cyl is a royal pain, esp if 'time: now'. Heavy crimp also allows pressure to build to proper levels - good for velocity and complete burn/cleanliness. Slower powders, such as H110, benefit from a longer bbl. Less than 4" is a bit of a waste and louder/brighter blast from H110. (Presumably revolver here vs lever gun.) GC's don't automatically mean 'jacketed data'.

A wide, flat meplat (notice sharp edge on a WFN) on a HC bullet (approx BHN 22) is the norm for serious woods defense as it isn't as prone to deflection, deformation or separation, in stark contrast to FMJ (soft with rounded edge). Not to say FMJ is inappropriate, just less than optimal. Good HC choices from Montana Bullet Works. Parenthetically, bear spray is often a good first-line of defense.
 
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Buy some Missouri bullet company bullets that are hitek coated. Crimp to crimp groove. Pick a starting load from a manual with a similar bullet design and same weight start at minimum and work up.
 
K.I.S.S. Use the data for the specific bullet (or a close/identical one) from your reloading manual(s). I have a Lyman 50th (48th and 48th too), and Lyman Cast Bullet Handbooks and load data specifically for gas checked bullets is listed. You might get away with jacketed loads for gas checked lead (and may not), but especially for a newer reloader, use the data for the particular bullet you are reloading. Extrapolating load data for a new reloader can and often ends up with very poor or even dangerous results. Using jacketed data for checked lead is prolly safe, but why if the correct data is readily available?

Sounds like you need a bit of brushing up on your reloading practices, theory and nomenclature. Read, read, read. If you don't have one, an excellent text is The ABCs of Reloading. It tells the "how to", explains different components and equipment used. A valuable read...
 
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A .357 is not usually considered a bear gun. If meeting an aggressive bear is a real possibility, I would be carrying a bigger gun. My gas checks have been in 327 Federal Magnum, 41 Magnum, and 45 Colt Redhawk. The 44 Magnum Super Blackhawk uses SJHPs. I don't do walkabout though. Only paper is in grave danger. I like to shoot magnum loads appropriate to the gun size and use gas checks to control leading, allowing me to use lead bullets that otherwise have caused too much leading or leaving coating in the barrel. I have been happy with GC bullets from Rimrock.

Some of the heavy bullets yield a longer COL when crimping strictly in the groove as intended, so you have to make sure the bullet does not extend beyond the cylinder throats (that the gun will close and the cylinder will rotate freely).
 
Why are you asking about seating depth? Just like any bullet you load for revolver you seat the bullet so when you crimp its info the manufacturers supplied crimp groove. As with all cast bullets it's the correct depth for that bullet.

The gas check allows you to load to higher pressures with minimal risk of leading the barrel. I would not use jackets bullet data but full powder cast loads will work well as long as you maintain accuracy.

I agree, stick with the cast bullet data, 'cause that's what you're loading, especially with .357 Magnum loads. The gas check is to prevent "gas cutting" on the base of the lead bullet.
 
When loading bare lead bullets, including gas checked bullets, dispense with using the Lee FCD. It will size down the bullets inside the case, potentially wrecking the accuracy, and inducing leading.
Simply seat to, and roll crimp in the provided crimp groove.

Research the proper bullet for your application. Different bullets have designs optimized for different cartridges. A bullet intended for a .357mag will have a shorter fore section, to fit into cylinders, whereas a bullet intended for the .38Spl will have a longer nose and wider front driving band to enhance accuracy and increase powder space available.

In my 50yrs experience, #2400 is unexcelled in the .357mag with cast bullets. 150-170gr bullets, I use 12.5-14.5gr.
You don’t want the lead alloy too hard. And, IMO, gaschecks are a waste until you exceed 1,800fps.
An advantage of cast over plated/jacketed is that everything else equal, the lower coefficient of friction of a cast bullet yields 50-100fps higher velocity.

Homework assignment: 4hrs minimum, surfing castboolits.com.
Add that to a Lyman #49, and Lyman Cast bullet Handbook
 
While testing/shooting the 2nd shot I heard a squeak when cocking the hammer so I let it back down and open the cylinder.
A half jacket was stuck in the forcing cone and rubbed the cylinder while it was turning causing the squeak, and the lead core was gone :what:.
I went home pulled those bullets, put the remaining bullet box in the bottom of my safe as a counter weight.
Speer warned about downloading their half jacketed bullets in their manuals when they still sold those bullets. They said exactly that could happen.

https://www.thehighroad.org/index.php?threads/start-load-max-load.682581/#post-8476802
 
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