Ca ammo law and reloading...

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Texasgrillchef

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I find it interesting to note from all the YouTube gun channel commentary, and well as many forum commentary on Ca new ammo laws that there hasn’t been much talk (a few instances) about simply reloading ammo. (At least I haven’t seen much)

From what I understand, no background checks are needed to by powder, brass, primers, or even the bullets, and they can be shipped in via mail order as well.

So I am surprised that their has not been an increase of sales around reloading equipment and supplies. Or has there been an increase?

Also... if you make a thousand rounds of your favorite caliber ammo, how will law enforcement know (say your pulled over in an auto stop for a broken tail light) if the ammo you have was purchased or if you reloaded it from the ammo you did buy (legally).

I keep all of my ammo that I reload and that I buy in ammo boxes. I take out purchased ammo out the the box it came in, and put it in one of those plastic ammo boxes.

So my question legally? Is how is law enforcement able to tell the difference? What’s the true legal stance for someone who reloads? Are more people in California reloading now?

What if someone who reloads were given the supplies to make ammo by a friend, he makes the ammo, and gives it back to his friend. Not charging him for labor? Or even lets the friend use his reloading equipment? What’s the legal stance of California in that instance?

All in all I hope ca looses the court case, but we shall see.
 
Reloading is dangerous to those without the dedication to safely do it. It only takes a single mistake in thousands of rounds to make your gun explode in your face.
So the people being targeted the most by gun and ammunition restrictions, the impulsive and the lower income brackets involved in gang crime are not frequently reloaders.

Bring enough attention to it though and they will be restricting it too.
The UN already has called for banning or restricting it, considering it manufacturing ammunition without all the proper licenses, and making it harder to track and control which is a laid out and agreed upon requirement for Small Arms and Light Weapons controls.

I believe they also made it illegal to give or loan ammunition in the state since it now requires a background check. If the components are not considered ammo, but the completed cartridge is, then even if you made your friend ammunition with his own components or your own components you would be furnishing ammunition without the legally required background check no different than selling or giving them ammunition directly.


However most people must purchase smokeless powder or primers, and that is tracked and signed for. I think since some years back most powders also include ways to trace them with chemical additives, so if a powder is used for something at least federal law enforcement can determine what powder it was and will then be looking at records of anyone purchasing that powder.
Most people are also incapable of making their own smokeless powder that adheres to the proper burn rates required for safe pressure curves.
Black powder however is much easier to make from a large number of things, easy to make in the proper burn rate for a particular firearm, and would be signficantly more challenging to restrict.
A cartridge gun that uses black powder, and designing a homemade method of easily mass producing primers would be the best option for being able to provide your own ammunition irregardless of restrictions. Then you would be even better if you had a machine to make your own brass.
I would like to see simplified hobby versions of brass and primer manfucaturing with low enough costs to be mass sold to the public. A press that can extrude brass or some other type of thing made to the lowest price point and using manual labor like a lot of the reloading presses.
Primer cups should be quite easy to stamp out and form from flat sheets of metal, and a quick formula to pour into them that is reliable and sensitive but not overly so probably not hard. A press could probably also mass produce little anvils for the primers quite easily since the amount of material wouldn't even require much force to cut out.
The down side is the power limitations of black powder, and it being so dirty the amount of rounds that can be fired before the action becomes too dirty to continue cycling, as well as it being corrosive. To scale up power you also have to scale up the amount of powder, and I believe they have very small quantities allowed at a time that would not go very far in reloading.
 
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Zoogster said:
Reloading is dangerous to those without the dedication to safely do it. It only takes a single mistake in thousands of rounds to make your gun explode in your face.
So the people being targeted the most by gun and ammunition restrictions, the impulsive and the lower income brackets involved in gang crime are not frequently reloaders.

Bring enough attention to it though and they will be restricting it too.
The UN already has called for banning or restricting it, considering it manufacturing ammunition without all the proper licenses, and making it harder to track and control which is a laid out and agreed upon requirement for Small Arms and Light Weapons controls.

I believe they also made it illegal to give or loan ammunition in the state since it now requires a background check. If the components are not considered ammo, but the completed cartridge is, then even if you made your friend ammunition with his own components or your own components you would be furnishing ammunition without the legally required background check no different than selling or giving them ammunition directly.


However most people must purchase smokeless powder or primers, and that is tracked and signed for. I think since some years back most powders also include ways to trace them with chemical additives, so if a powder is used for something at least federal law enforcement can determine what powder it was and will then be looking at records of anyone purchasing that powder.
Most people are also incapable of making their own smokeless powder that adheres to the proper burn rates required for safe pressure curves.
Black powder however is much easier to make from a large number of things, easy to make in the proper burn rate for a particular firearm, and would be signficantly more challenging to restrict.
A cartridge gun that uses black powder, and designing a homemade method of easily mass producing primers would be the best option for being able to provide your own ammunition irregardless of restrictions. Then you would be even better if you had a machine to make your own brass.
I would like to see simplified hobby versions of brass and primer manfucaturing with low enough costs to be mass sold to the public. A press that can extrude brass or some other type of thing made to the lowest price point and using manual labor like a lot of the reloading presses.
Primer cups should be quite easy to stamp out and form from flat sheets of metal, and a quick formula to pour into them that is reliable and sensitive but not overly so probably not hard. A press could probably also mass produce little anvils for the primers quite easily since the amount of material wouldn't even require much force to cut out.
The down side is the power limitations of black powder, and it being so dirty the amount of rounds that can be fired before the action becomes too dirty to continue cycling, as well as it being corrosive. To scale up power you also have to scale up the amount of powder, and I believe they have very small quantities allowed at a time that would not go very far in reloading.
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I agree, it’s a process that requires one to be precise. Not something for most gang members or low income to do safely for sure.

I have the thought the same thing, wishing someone would come up with an affordable way to produce our own primers. Hard to do consider the cost of primers is well below a penny a piece. Brass would be harder to produce at home. Not a big deal easy to collect brass at shooting ranges. At least here in Texas. No need to buy.

Until CA regulates reloading, it is an option for them.

Yeah one can’t give ammo to someone else unless in the same household. Yet if they gave a person all the components to the ammo, and I assembled the parts, would it be considered me giving them ammo, because they own the components allready. Hard to say.....

As far as the UN goes, Trump backed us out of that agreement thankfully.
 
In the older days, both UPS and Fedex actually wanted an adult signature due to the contents. Now, they're so overworked, they just leave it on the doorstep.
 
I started reloading when I was 15 because I couldn't buy ammo. But I could buy a press and dies, pick up brass, buy bullets, buy propellant, some people wouldn't sell me primers but I could always find some one who would.

Now that you mention it I have been selling reloading equipment to people in California.
Guess they don't care about the stupid law.

Just like all gun laws they target law abiding gun owners.
 
Texasgrillchef said:
if you make a thousand rounds of your favorite caliber ammo, how will law enforcement know ... if the ammo you have was purchased or if you reloaded it from the ammo you did buy.

... how is law enforcement able to tell the difference? What’s the true legal stance for someone who reloads?
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What will law enforcement say if you were found with 1000 cookies you baked for your church potlock? Will it matter to law enforcement that you made them yourself instead of buying them at the store?

Is transporting a thousand rounds of legally purchased ammunition in your car illegal? Many people take thousands of rounds of ammunition (reloaded and/or factory) when they go shooting or participate in match shooting/competition.

Texasgrillchef said:
I find it interesting to note ... that there hasn’t been much talk about simply reloading ammo ... I am surprised that their has not been an increase of sales around reloading equipment and supplies. Or has there been an increase?
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Talk and increase in sales of reloading equipment and supplies already took place during the last "Great Component Shortage" around 2008 - 2012 - https://www.thehighroad.org/index.php?threads/where-are-there-reloading-components-on-sale.707473/

And after Trump won the 2016 election, reloading component prices fell to recent historical lows and those with reloading equipment already stocked up - https://www.thehighroad.org/index.php?threads/what-to-stock-up-on.855885/#post-11225563
Texasgrillchef said:
Are more people in California reloading now?
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Probably.
Texasgrillchef said:
What if someone who reloads were given the supplies to make ammo by a friend, he makes the ammo, and gives it back to his friend. Not charging him for labor? Or even lets the friend use his reloading equipment?
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Since reloading can result in rounds without powder charge (called a squib round) that can lodge the bullet in the barrel or too much powder charge (due to using wrong load data, etc.), I don't recommend people loading for others as if gun blows up, there are liability issues if damage to gun/injury to body occurs.

I don't see issues with allowing friends using equipment to load their rounds.
 
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rperyam said:
I have never signed for either, nor bullets or brass. What states require this?
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As far as I know, it's not a state law here (California) but in my area (San Diego county) you have to sign a smokeless powder ledger which is maintained by the sheriff's department. I don't remember this always being a thing, maybe as far back as the 90s though.
 
I just came back from California. In my mind, the only issue in California that matters is the inability for people to carry. If that is fixed, all the other dominoes will fall. As long as people cannot carry, firearms will only be a hobby or a novelty for recreation and sport in the mind of most voters. Every imaginable restriction on the would-be-lawful will seem reasonable in pursuit of the criminal who won't subject themselves to any of them. If millions of people could carry, all the other stupid and ineffective restrictions would disappear or be worked around. Californians are very adept at finding solutions to problems and I have no doubt the minor infringements would be overcome if only they could carry.
 
labnoti said:
I just came back from California. In my mind, the only issue in California that matters is the inability for people to carry. If that is fixed, all the other dominoes will fall. As long as people cannot carry, firearms will only be a hobby or a novelty for recreation and sport in the mind of most voters. Every imaginable restriction on the would-be-lawful will seem reasonable in pursuit of the criminal who won't subject themselves to any of them. If millions of people could carry, all the other stupid and ineffective restrictions would disappear or be worked around. Californians are very adept at finding solutions to problems and I have no doubt the minor infringements would be overcome if only they could carry.
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There are 56 Counties in Ca, and most are rural. The majority of these rural Counties do issue, and issue them without a ton of restrictions. The disgustingly overpopulated urban Counties' sheriff's are the ones that don't, because they're run by self-righteous libs and the local media. The only ones there that seem to get CCW permits are big-money political donors. People don't open carry anymore because that's now illegal, so the places where people do have CCW permits they keep it on the down-low. No need to draw attention. ;)

San Bernardino County also has a powder ledger rule. As far as I can tell it has solved no crime, but it's on the books anyway. I have also bought powder in Riverside and in Fresno Counties, they didn't have a ledger...or at least the seller didn't fill one out. :thumbup:

Stay safe.
 
Riomouse911 said:
There are 56 Counties in Ca, and most are rural. The majority of these rural Counties do issue, and issue them without a ton of restrictions. The disgustingly overpopulated urban Counties' sheriff's are the ones that don't, because they're run by self-righteous libs and the local media. The only ones there that seem to get CCW permits are big-money political donors. People don't open carry anymore because that's now illegal, so the places where people do have CCW permits they keep it on the down-low. No need to draw attention. ;).
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You're talking about %0.27 of the population. Out of 40 million Californians, there are only a little over 100,000 permits. In unrestricted states, 10% is not uncommon -- that's nearly 40 times more. If we were counting votes instead of permits, 100,000 votes is very, very different than 4 million.
 
Making one thousand cookies in NY might get you into trouble with the health department. Having 1000 rounds of reloads might get you on the evening news for having an "arsenal of ammo". When reality is you just shoot a lot. I too thought about reloading when NY passed the unsafe act. They too wanted a check on ammo which the state never implemented on us poor souls. I reload and it just encouraged me to have on hand all the things I need to reload the calibers that I shot. I do have to give my drivers license when I purchase powder in NY.
 
labnoti said:
You're talking about %0.27 of the population. Out of 40 million Californians, there are only a little over 100,000 permits. In unrestricted states, 10% is not uncommon -- that's nearly 40 times more. If we were counting votes instead of permits, 100,000 votes is very, very different than 4 million.
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That may be so, I don’t have actual numbers at my disposal. Again, those in rural or CCW friendly Counties do have the ability to obtain CCW permits if they wish at a much greater rate than those urban ones who are controlled by antis. If only 100,000 people have taken advantage of this Statewide, then (sadly) it’s the desire of these folks not to exercise the opportunity to have a means of self protection... not necessarily the will of the County Sheriffs that issue the majority of CCW permits to deny them.

In any event, I would love to see a higher rate of CCW permits issued since the CCW permit holders seem to be more responsible firearm owners. It’s clear that the draconian gun laws spewing forth from the clowns in Sacto over the past 30+ years certainly haven’t done a darn thing to curb crooks or illegal use of firearms one bit.

Stay safe.
 
As far as ccw’s and carry goes in California.
I would be willing to bet the issuance of CCW’s there would change a huge amount once Federal Reciprocity for other states LTC’s goes into effect.

That in effect would make it more legal for out of state people to legally carry in the state of california over its own citizens. Public outcry might possibly demand a change in ca’s ccw laws.
 
Honesty, just as with the Tax Stamp and AWB type laws, the intent of the CA ammo laws is to drive up cost and make it more time consuming and inconvenient to buy ammo. The average Joe or low income people will buy less and will shoot less...

I also take issue with the assumption that people who are of lower income aren't smart enough or capable of reloading safely or that they're involved in gang crime. For the most part, lower income people just can not afford the initial start up price, don't even know reloading is an option, and/or do not possess the skill to do so...

As far as drug dealers and gang members go, they aren't necessarily broke or dumb. I'm sure that if it dawns on them they can make a profit selling reloaded ammo or out of state ammo to their associates who can not pass a BG check, they're more than capable of reloading if they aren't already... That, or someone who can pass a BG check will buy ammo for them. These type of people aren't the type to routinely go to the range or shoot hundreds or thousands of rounds through their guns. The ammo laws will only have a negative affect on law abiding citizens, and will do nothing to stop crime. If they can obtain illegal drugs and firearms on a continuous basis, obtaining ammo is like a day on the beach...
 
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We try to keep the Legal forum very narrowly focused, and I haven't seen a single reference to a statute, case, or other legal principle. Ordinarily, I'd close a thread like that. However, given the path CA seems to be treading, I think it worthwhile to discuss the legal options for CA residents who might be interested in reloading. So I'll throw out a couple of statutes:

First of all, let's peek at the definitions section. That's always important:
<Section operative until July 1, 2020. See, also, § 16150 operative July 1, 2020.>
(a) As used in this part, except in subdivision (a) of Section 30305 and in Section 30306, “ammunition” means one or more loaded cartridges consisting of a primed case, propellant, and with one or more projectiles. “Ammunition” does not include blanks.
(b) As used in subdivision (a) of Section 30305 and in Section 30306, “ammunition” includes, but is not limited to, any bullet, cartridge, magazine, clip, speed loader, autoloader, or projectile capable of being fired from a firearm with a deadly consequence. “Ammunition” does not include blanks.
(c) This section shall remain in effect only until July 1, 2020, and as of that date is repealed.
Cal. Penal Code § 16150 (West)
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Obviously, this section is only good for a few more months as of this writing. Here's the section that will take effect July 1, 2020:
<Section operative July 1, 2020. See, also, § 16150 operative until July 1, 2020.>
(a) As used in this part, except in subdivision (a) of Section 30305 and in Section 30306, “ammunition” means one or more loaded cartridges consisting of a primed case, propellant, and with one or more projectiles. “Ammunition” does not include blanks.
(b) As used in subdivision (a) of Section 30305 and in Section 30306, “ammunition” includes, but is not limited to, any bullet, cartridge, magazine, clip, speed loader, autoloader, ammunition feeding device, or projectile capable of being fired from a firearm with a deadly consequence. “Ammunition” does not include blanks.
(c) This section shall become operative on July 1, 2020.

Cal. Penal Code § 16150 (West)
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The sections between the < and the > are non-substantive notes, put there (I think) by Westlaw. I've underlined the change that has been made & will take effect.

(a)(1) Commencing January 1, 2018, the sale of ammunition by any party shall be conducted by or processed through a licensed ammunition vendor.
(2) When neither party to an ammunition sale is a licensed ammunition vendor, the seller shall deliver the ammunition to a vendor to process the transaction. The ammunition vendor shall promptly and properly deliver the ammunition to the purchaser, if the sale is not prohibited, as if the ammunition were the vendor's own merchandise. If the ammunition vendor cannot legally deliver the ammunition to the purchaser, the vendor shall forthwith return the ammunition to the seller. The ammunition vendor may charge the purchaser an administrative fee to process the transaction, in an amount to be set by the Department of Justice, in addition to any applicable fees that may be charged pursuant to the provisions of this title.
(b) Commencing January 1, 2018, the sale, delivery, or transfer of ownership of ammunition by any party may only occur in a face-to-face transaction with the seller, deliverer, or transferor, provided, however, that ammunition may be purchased or acquired over the Internet or through other means of remote ordering if a licensed ammunition vendor initially receives the ammunition and processes the transaction in compliance with this section and Article 3 (commencing with Section 30342) of Chapter 1 of Division 10 of Title 4 of this part.
(c) Subdivisions (a) and (b) shall not apply to the sale, delivery, or transfer of ammunition to any of the following:
(1) An authorized law enforcement representative of a city, county, city and county, or state or federal government, if the sale, delivery, or transfer is for exclusive use by that government agency and, prior to the sale, delivery, or transfer of the ammunition, written authorization from the head of the agency employing the purchaser or transferee is obtained, identifying the employee as an individual authorized to conduct the transaction, and authorizing the transaction for the exclusive use of the agency employing the individual.
(2) A sworn peace officer, as defined in Chapter 4.5 (commencing with Section 830) of Title 3 of Part 2, or sworn federal law enforcement officer, who is authorized to carry a firearm in the course and scope of the officer's duties.
(3) An importer or manufacturer of ammunition or firearms who is licensed to engage in business pursuant to Chapter 44 (commencing with Section 921) of Title 18 of the United States Code and the regulations issued pursuant thereto.
(4) A person who is on the centralized list of exempted federal firearms licensees maintained by the Department of Justice pursuant to Article 6 (commencing with Section 28450) of Chapter 6 of Division 6 of this title.
(5) A person whose licensed premises are outside this state and who is licensed as a dealer or collector of firearms pursuant to Chapter 44 (commencing with Section 921) of Title 18 of the United States Code and the regulations issued pursuant thereto.
(6) A person who is licensed as a collector of firearms pursuant to Chapter 44 (commencing with Section 921) of Title 18 of the United States Code and the regulations issued pursuant thereto, whose licensed premises are within this state, and who has a current certificate of eligibility issued by the Department of Justice pursuant to Section 26710.
(7) An ammunition vendor.
(8) A consultant-evaluator.
(9) A person who purchases or receives ammunition at a target facility holding a business or other regulatory license, provided that the ammunition is at all times kept within the facility's premises.
(10) A person who purchases or receives ammunition from a spouse, registered domestic partner, or immediate family member as defined in Section 16720.
(11) A person enrolled in the basic training academy for peace officers or any other course certified by the Commission on Peace Officer Standards and Training, an instructor of the academy or course, or a staff member of the academy or entity providing the course, who is purchasing the ammunition for the purpose of participation or use in the course.
(d) A violation of this section is a misdemeanor.

Cal. Penal Code § 30312 (West)
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(a) Commencing January 1, 2018, a resident of this state shall not bring or transport into this state any ammunition that he or she purchased or otherwise obtained from outside of this state unless he or she first has that ammunition delivered to a licensed ammunition vendor for delivery to that resident pursuant to the procedures set forth in Section 30312.
(b) Subdivision (a) does not apply to any of the following:
(1) An ammunition vendor.
(2) A sworn peace officer, as defined in Chapter 4.5 (commencing with Section 830) of Title 3 of Part 2, or sworn federal law enforcement officer, who is authorized to carry a firearm in the course and scope of the officer's duties.
(3) An importer or manufacturer of ammunition or firearms who is licensed to engage in business pursuant to Chapter 44 (commencing with Section 921) of Title 18 of the United States Code and the regulations issued pursuant thereto.
(4) A person who is on the centralized list of exempted federal firearms licensees maintained by the Department of Justice pursuant to Article 6 (commencing with Section 28450) of Chapter 6 of Division 6.
(5) A person who is licensed as a collector of firearms pursuant to Chapter 44 (commencing with Section 921) of Title 18 of the United States Code and the regulations issued pursuant thereto, whose licensed premises are within this state, and who has a current certificate of eligibility issued by the Department of Justice pursuant to Section 26710.
(6) A person who acquired the ammunition from a spouse, registered domestic partner, or immediate family member as defined in Section 16720.
(c) A violation of this section is an infraction for any first time offense, and either an infraction or a misdemeanor for any subsequent offense.

Cal. Penal Code § 30314 (West)
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Interestingly, it would appear that if (for whatever reason), I were to move to CA and become a resident, I would not be allowed to take my ammo with me unless I took it to a licensed ammo vendor and had it transferred to myself. Equally interestingly, it doesn't appear to apply if I were to take the ammo there and then become a resident. But that's a situation where I might beat the charge, but it probably wouldn't be worth the risk or hassle.

As for reloading, the CA legislature is clearly aware that reloading exists, as I found several references to it in the ammunition section. Like this:
(a) Any person, corporation, or dealer who does any of the following shall be punished by imprisonment in a county jail for a term not to exceed six months, or by a fine not to exceed one thousand dollars ($1,000), or by both the imprisonment and fine:
(1) Sells any ammunition or reloaded ammunition to a person under 18 years of age....

Cal. Penal Code § 30300 (West) (emphasis supplied)
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I also ran a quick search for some CA statutes on components. From the "High Explosives" chapter:
For the purposes of this part, “explosives” means .... and any of the following: (a) Dynamite, .... black powder, smokeless powder, propellant explosives, detonating primers, blasting caps, or commercial boosters.....

Cal. Health & Safety Code § 12000 (West)
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From the Vehicles chapter:
When not in conflict with any local ordinance pertaining to the transportation of explosives, it shall be lawful to transport smokeless powder in an amount not exceeding 100 pounds if packed in containers prescribed by the United States Department of Transportation upon a highway not designated by the Department of the California Highway Patrol as a route for the transportation of explosives.

Cal. Veh. Code § 31619 (West)
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From the "Explosives & Permits" chapter:
This chapter does not apply to any possession or use of 20 pounds or less of smokeless powder, or one pound or less of black sporting powder, provided that:
(a) Smokeless powder is intended only for hand loading of small arms ammunition of .75 caliber or less.
(b) Black sporting powder is intended for loading of small arms or small arms ammunition of .75 caliber or less.
(c) All such powder is for private use and not for resale, and, in the case of black sporting powder, there shall be no gift, delivery, or other disposition to another person.
(d) The storage, use and handling of such smokeless and black powder conforms to rules, regulations, or ordinances of authorities having jurisdiction for fire prevention and suppression in the area of such storage, use, and handling of such explosives.

Cal. Health & Safety Code § 12102 (West)
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Any person who sells, gives, delivers or otherwise disposes of 20 pounds or less of smokeless powder, or one pound or less of black sporting powder, shall first obtain a statement from the person who purchases or otherwise receives such powder, which statement shall include:
(a) The name, address and birth date of the person purchasing or receiving the powder.
(b) The purpose for which the powder is intended to be used, handled, stored, or possessed.
(c) The type and amount of the powder.
(d) The signature of the person purchasing or receiving the powder.
(e) The driver's license number, selective service card number, or other identifying information concerning the person purchasing or receiving the powder.
Any person furnishing a fictitious name or address or knowingly furnishing an incorrect birth date and any person violating any of the provisions of this section is guilty of a misdemeanor.

Cal. Health & Safety Code § 12102.1 (West)
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If I were going to reload in CA: CA law seems fairly particular (and even a little peculiar) in regards to reloading. Still, it certainly looks manageable from a legal perspective.
 
I guess one of the things I wonder most, is how are the going to enforce this new law?

I could be wrong in this... just using some logic here.

A reputable business will follow the law, and barring an unscrupulous employee at the business, the law will be followed. So pretty easy to enforce there.

I think what’s going to be difficult if not impossible to enforce is the sale of ammunition among friends, or A CA resident buying ammo out of state and bringing it in. If you dump the boxes, ditch the receipt, pay cash, and keep it in a bag or box as if it was purchased or even reloaded in bulk it would be hard for any prosecutor to get a conviction. Easy to just say it was bought before the law was enacted, or that you reloaded it, etc...

How would any LEO prove that the ammo was purchased or imported in a manner that was in violation of the law?

How are they planning on enforcing importation by CA residents? If a realitive of mine from CA comes to Texas and visits me, and I give them ammo being an immediate family member, that is legal under CA law, but I am out of state too? So legal or not legal?

What if I travel to CA, legally I can bring ammo with me, and it looks like if I am an immediate family member I could give or sell the ammo to them as well without a background check. Correct? So if that’s the case, wouldn’t I be allowed to ship them ammo as well? Since I am an immediate family member?

Also from Spats in his mentioning of the statues, noticed nothing about intent. So one could sell ammo to his wife, who sells it to her brother, who sells it to his wife, who sells it to her mom, who sells it to her sister who sells it to her son, who sells its to his registered live in domestic partner who sells it to... etc.... all perfectly legal barring intent... but if the original seller had no clue... it could be passed on n on n on.... makes ya wonder...

Also if a CA resident reloads out of state, LEO’s would be hard pressed to know if it was purchased or reloaded.
 
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Texasgrillchef said:
I guess one of the things I wonder most, is how are the going to enforce this new law?

I could be wrong in this... just using some logic here.

A reputable business will follow the law, and barring an unscrupulous employee at the business, the law will be followed. So pretty easy to enforce there.

I think what’s going to be difficult if not impossible to enforce is the sale of ammunition among friends, or A CA resident buying ammo out of state and bringing it in. If you dump the boxes, ditch the receipt, pay cash, and keep it in a bag or box as if it was purchased or even reloaded in bulk it would be hard for any prosecutor to get a conviction. Easy to just say it was bought before the law was enacted, or that you reloaded it, etc...

How would any LEO prove that the ammo was purchased or imported in a manner that was in violation of the law?

How are they planning on enforcing importation by CA residents? If a realitive of mine from CA comes to Texas and visits me, and I give them ammo being an immediate family member, that is legal under CA law, but I am out of state too? So legal or not legal?

What if I travel to CA, legally I can bring ammo with me, and it looks like if I am an immediate family member I could give or sell the ammo to them as well without a background check. Correct? So if that’s the case, wouldn’t I be allowed to ship them ammo as well? Since I am an immediate family member?

Also from Spats in his mentioning of the statues, noticed nothing about intent. So one could sell ammo to his wife, who sells it to her brother, who sells it to his wife, who sells it to her mom, who sells it to her sister who sells it to her son, who sells its to his registered live in domestic partner who sells it to... etc.... all perfectly legal barring intent... but if the original seller had no clue... it could be passed on n on n on.... makes ya wonder...

Also if a CA resident reloads out of state, LEO’s would be hard pressed to know if it was purchased or reloaded.
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That's what makes the law a complete joke and continues to prove how brain dead the Dems in California are.
 
Texasgrillchef said:
So my question legally? Is how is law enforcement able to tell the difference?
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Why would they need to; or even care?

There isn't a law prohibiting possession

What’s the true legal stance for someone who reloads?
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There hasn't been any change. It is still legal to buy all components needed to reload

Are more people in California reloading now?
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Yes there are. I've introduced several people to reloading in the last year who have been sitting on the fence for a while.

The new regulations concerning the purchase of ammo has tip them over the line
 
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