How many rounds fired in self defense

if you were involved in a assualt, how many rounds did you actually use

  • I have not been in a sitution where I had to shoot my Carry firearm.

    Votes: 33 80.5%

  • 1-2 rounds were fired through my carry

    Votes: 3 7.3%

  • 3 rounds were fired

    Votes: 0 0.0%

  • 4 rounds were fired

    Votes: 0 0.0%

  • 5 rounds were fired

    Votes: 0 0.0%

  • 6 rounds were fired

    Votes: 0 0.0%

  • 7 rounds were fired

    Votes: 1 2.4%

  • 8 rounds fired

    Votes: 2 4.9%

  • 9 rounds were fired

    Votes: 0 0.0%

  • More than 10 fired

    Votes: 1 2.4%

  • More than 10 and used a second Magazine

    Votes: 1 2.4%
  • Total voters
    41
  • Poll closed .
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beeenbag said:
People should carry what they shoot well, a chambering that is effective yet again, they shoot well, and has as many rounds as you can carry, and you shoot well. :thumbup:
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THIS. This right here. ^^^^

I LOVE revolvers. I don't need to validate why I would prefer a revolver to an autoloader. (That's been done to death anyway.) However...I shoot my plastic fantastic 9mm slightly (Okay, more than slightly) better than I shoot my revolver. And with less training/practice. If I don't shoot hundreds of rounds in my revolver every week, those skills deteriorate rapidly. And one those skills deteriorate, it takes a lot of work to get them back. By comparison, I leave my 9mm at home for a few weeks and I'm still on point with the first shot. I don't know why that is. I can't explain it. And it ticks me off because I want to be better with the revolver than the semi.
 
Home invasion, not an assault. Was on the phone with the dispatcher (late 80s) when a drunken neighbor came in and saw me pointing a .380 at him.
He left - no shots fired.
 
D.B. Cooper said:
I can't explain it. And it ticks me off because I want to be better with the revolver than the semi.
Click to expand...

Take your revolver to a well stocked FFL with an indoor range and try other grips. Pistols and revolvers are similar to shoes because one size doesn't fit all feet.

As ex-infantry I've shot people. However, my most scary experience was a rabid raccoon.
 
I don't think it is wise to respond to the poll or provide details about if you were/were not involved in a situation where you to discharge your weapon.

Having said that, I will offer this observation:

In the training facility I am involved in and have been for years, some of the drills involve precisely replicating as closely as possible a self-defense situation where the student must engage a target as closely as possible, drawing the weapon, firing immediately as soon as it is clear of the holster, then stepping back while shooting from there.

Invariably, and this is really quite something to notice, most students will crank off six or seven shots, rarely less, rarely more.
 
psyopspec said:
Are sworn law enforcement not civilians anymore? Did that change with the militarization of police in the last 20 years?
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If you talk to LEOs, many of them will refer to you and I as civilians, insinuating that they, themselves, are not.

But in the case of this discussion alone, I think the OP just meant to rule out experiences from people who, as a profession, have a greater risk of gunfire and a higher propensity to need more ammo. I think it was stipulated so as not to skew the results of the poll.
 
psyopspec said:
Are sworn law enforcement not civilians anymore?
Click to expand...
No, not by the accepted definition, and neither are firefighters.

From Dictionary.com:

noun
a person who is not on active duty with a military, naval, police, or fire fighting organization.
 
Kleanbore said:
No, not by the accepted definition, and neither are firefighters.

From Dictionary.com:

noun
a person who is not on active duty with a military, naval, police, or fire fighting organization.
Click to expand...

Ummmm. I'm sorry but who declared Dictionary.com an "accepted definition" and why? Next you'll be quoting wikipedia.
 
It’s also the definition in Webster’s. I can scan the page and post it if you want. But I don’t think we are going to have that conversation here. That’s the accepted definition and that’s the way it will be used in this sub forum. We have more serious things to discuss here then that.
 
As a soldier of the hilly sandbox, I was never lacking for ammo. In one encounter, I fired more than the basic infantry allotment of 7 magazines or 210 rounds. Thankfully our intel for that mission said resistance was expected to be high, so I packed extra.

As a civilian, I do not expect to expend more than a full magazine in whatever my carry firearm is during an encounter. Statistics say 1-3 but that doesn't mean it is safe to carry a single shot or derringer in your pocket. I spoke with Rob Pincus this past weekend, as with other professional trainers, he recommends 2 spare magazines when carrying a single stack and 1 spare magazine with double stacks for most conceal carriers.
 
M. Ayoob once amassed some data that indicated a single stack auto was the sweet spot in service pistols.
A sixshooter might not be enough facing determined opponents, but a high cap might lead to spray and pray. Eight or ten tries got the job done if things went beyond the average.
 
Usually, implied in these polls, is the notion that Regular Joe needs a lot less ammo than cops. In some ways this is true because there is no duty for regular Joe to pursue criminals and apprehend.

However the same criminals the cops have to arrest will also be the same criminals that prey on the public.

One could argue that Regular Joe may need more ammo in his CCW. He will not be wearing a vest, won't have dispatch on standby, nor will he have access to back up minutes away.

In the end of the day we carry what we're comfortable with I have to live by our choices. I also don't necessarily equate having a high round count In your CCW as adopting I spray and pray attitude. One could carry many rounds and be conservative, careful, and deliberate in their use.

I did not participate in the poll for I have never had to use my CCW, and hopefully will never have to.
 
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I have never drawn for tactical use.
I have for years carried a 5-round .38 snubby pocket gun, with occasional carry of a 7+1 .45 M1911A1, comfortable in the selections based on the widely published 3-shots per incident statistic. However, at the recent NRA Personal Protection Expo I attended two sessions by John Correia with his Active Self Protection lectures, showing videos from his ASP YouTube Channel. Based on John's observations that the bad-guy world has been changing to more team player situations, I am considering changing to a double-stack 9 mm. Time now for a lot of research and range rentals before I invest in a new firearm for carry.

BTW, the poll numbers in this thread are only mildly interesting, but I greatly appreciate the commentary and anecdotes as I work toward a decision. Thanks to the OP and all contributors in the thread.
 
beeenbag said:
What does one do with a poll designed to collectively gather how many rounds are likely to be fired in a civilian defense situation? There are many studies that do prove, lets just say less than 5 rounds are typically the case. If these types of studies are going to be what one uses to base their carry sidearm on, then one would be inclined to not carry at all, or to carry an empty gun, as the vast majority of concealed carry holders never draw their weapon, OR they draw and never have to fire. It is equally as silly to base complacency at 5 rounds maximum with your carry gun, as it is to base carrying an empty firearm based on statistics. We carry for the "unlikely event" that we will need to have a defensive firearm because the loss of such an event (your life) is greater than we are willing to risk against the unlikeliness that we will ever encounter said situation. Same can be said for limiting yourself to 5 rounds because of statistics. I'm quite positive that no matter where you poll, or what study you read, you'll find support that 5 rounds will "likely" be enough. On that same token, if we are going to base our defenses around statistics, you would never need to carry at all. Why draw the line at 5 rounds? Everyone knows you're not likely to be involved in a civilian shooting based on statistics, so why carry at all? Whatever answer you just thought of for that question, apply it to "why not carry something with more rounds if you can shoot and carry it well?"
Click to expand...


Gee whatever happed to all the "old guys" with revolvers that claimed:

"If you can't ger er done with 6 rounds" you are a really bad shot!

What would Jelly Bryce or Elmer say?;)
 
Jeb,

Thanks for posting this. I don't know what I was expecting, but I would not have guessed that as of the time I'm posting this 20% of respondents had to fire their gun. I thought that number would be much lower.
 
Thanks all, for your post and opinions. No poll is perfect, but I hoped to get a general idea from EDC forum members. In that regards, I think it will be a useful tool among many tools that help folks decide what is best for them. In today's world their will always be compromises that one has to make in his decision both with his everyday carry, and to purchase the next firearm etc. Deciding how many rounds a firearm will have for the individual is just one of many factors that come into play. And their are so many different individuals with so many different lifestyles. Not to mention so many firearms and options to choose from. In a perfect world, one size would fit all. But as we all know, the world is not perfect. And personally do not think there is any one firearm that is perfect.
Again, I thank all that participated and appreciate all your opinions.
 
Jeb Stuart said:
Perhaps you should do your own research. I am sure anything I post will be contested by you and have no desire to get into that argument. If you feel differently that is fine. Not going to take the bait.
Click to expand...
I have not been able to find any credible source of "statistics", nor has anyone else here over the last decade.

Thus subject has been discussed at length many times.

There are three reasons that I tend doubt the "one to three" figure:
  1. The likelihood that one or two shots fired into a large fast-moving three dimensional target will happen to strike critical body parts hidden within is obviously low.
  2. a defender will not have sufficient time to reasonably assess the effectiveness of initial hits and stop firing, and
  3. for those reasons, defensive shooting trainers generally train students to fire three or more shots very rapidly if shooting is required,
 
This poll is over and I am not about to get in this debate. It is not what I intended. I think you might want to start a new thread. And since you are a Moderator, feel free to eliminate that part of my post and rewrite it as you please. Unfortunately, I can not edit at this point.
 
Kleanbore said:
Can you cite a credible source for that?
Click to expand...
I looked it up ... this is what I found.

Law Enforcement :
The 3 rd (3.59 rds actually when crunching the stats) comes from a 2012 study on law enforcement officers who were killed or assaulted.

http://concealednation.org/2016/02/how-many-rounds-are-fired-on-average-in-a-gunfight/

https://www.tierthreetactical.com/1...ats-backed-by-data-and-real-world-experience/


0CABF37B-2C72-49CD-9D02-45E37FD563A8.jpeg


BE23E2E8-7B8F-4B8E-B385-DA316F3517D1.jpeg


•••••••••••••••••••••••••••

Civilian defensive shootings not including Law Enforcement :
Claude Werner also ran his own study based on articles he collected which was reprinted by guns save lives and the average number they ran into was two rds.

http://gunssavelives.net/self-defense/analysis-of-five-years-of-armed-encounters-with-data-tables/

Overall, shots were fired by the defender in 72% of incidents. The average and median number of shots fired was 2. When more than 2 shots were fired, it generally appeared that the defender’s initial response was to fire until empty. It appears that revolver shooters are more likely to empty their guns than autoloader shooters. At least one assailant was killed in 34% of all incidents. At least one assailant was wounded in an additional 29% of all incidents. Of the incidents where shots are fired by a defender, at least one assailant is killed in 53% of those incidents.
Click to expand...

E56DA943-1ACB-4E3E-BDBC-95547EA72D25.jpeg
 
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