German sidearms in WWII- Who got what?

I am not an expert, but I think they issued quite a few different 32's.

I read a lot of memoirs. I don't know what the different branches were officially issued, but I've read passages from various common soldiers that implied that they liked to obtain 32's via non-standard means to use as last-ditch weapons. On the Eastern Front many of them did not prefer to be taken prisoner.

I’m not sure where the cut off line is either, but every German pistol with Waffen Amts that I’ve owned was apparently owned by an officer.

I believe also some for which branch or job. Aircrew got smaller guns, due to space, etc. I think. I have seen some Star Model S (I run the star-firearms site) with Luftwaffe marks, and reporting to back it. But... it's a giant complex topic, so I don't have a definitive answer.

I sorta think there is a book (or, trilogy of them) documenting some of the German small arms issue and marks? Maybe? Not this, but it may be interesting or the author may be able to answer the question or point you to the right place:
https://www.forgottenweapons.com/book-review-captured-arms-beutewaffen/

The Germans did not consider handguns to be serious weapons. It is my recollection that sidearms were accouterments to the uniform and generally supplied by the individual. There were many different pistols taken
from “dead German Officers”.

When the Imperial army was created after the unification of German at Versailles in 1871, many traditions and practices were incorporated into the new Imperial military. Some of these practices were based on the heritage of the unit, others were controlled by the financial resources of the various army components. A similar carry over occured when the Imperial army transformed into the Reichswehr and then again when the Reichswehr transformed into the Wehrmacht. Some traditions and practices were abandoned and others continued in one form or another. For example, there had always been competition between the army and the navy over funding. During the Third Reich that competition continued and was even magnified by the creation of the Luftwaffe, influencing everything from the disposition of aircraft to anti-aircraft guns to helmets. At this level, the disposition of funds and availablity of weapons was often influenced by personalities and their individual access to decision makers. At the level of small arms, there was an administrative office within each branch of service that oversaw the distribution of firearms, but here too it seems that it was often a individual relationship that determined which firearms were shipped to what units. There was an adjacent office that was responsible for the utilization of captured equipment and firearms, again, a tradition that went back at least as far as the battlefields of World War I. As a consequence, many, if not most, of the decisions regarding the production and distribution of small arms appear to have been irrational to us today. One example might be the firearms issued to the Fallschirmjäger. According to regulations, the members of this elite unit of fighting men were supposed to jump with nothing more than a Sauer 38H in their pocket. Once on the ground, they were supposed to take their 38H's and, if necessary, fight their way to the drop cannisters that contained the rest of their weapons. As you might expect, that didn't always work out too well but it did help push the development and issuance of the FG 42. Another example is one you touch on with your reference to Heydrich. The branch of service in which he served became so frustrated and disgusted with the process of acquisition and distribution of materials, including firearms, that it created its own supply chain completely independent from the existing military supply structure, in some cases even operating it's own factories. As a consequence, when you read accounts of German soldiers during the war, you will find references to the jealousy that grew out of that branch getting all of the best supplies and equipment.

gunlaw said:

The Germans did not consider handguns to be serious weapons. It is my recollection that sidearms were accouterments to the uniform and generally supplied by the individual. There were many different pistols taken
from “dead German Officers”.

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The expended a lot of effort into keeping captured arms factories producing pistols. Belgian Hi-Powers, Polish Radoms, French 1935a's - basically if a factory was making pistols and they captured the territory then they kept them making pistols to supply to their forces. They also bought a bunch of Astra 600/43's from Spain. That's all in addition to their domestically produced guns. As such it could be a bit of a "grab-bag" assortment of pistols that were issued.

War Time sometimes involves expedience. I have a 1941 Walther made P38 that was later chromed once it got over here and a September 1942 JP Sauer 38h that was part of the estate of a gentleman that was in the 91st Infantry Division and so most likely picked it up in Italy or North Africa. Interestingly it came with a oft repaired CZ 27 holster and the repairs were all pretty crude, most likely field repairs.

I have always felt that there were two often mutually exclusive channels; the official issue channel and the make do with what I can get right now channel.

.455_Hunter said:

SS-Obergruppenführer Reinhard Heydrich, about as high ranking a person as you could get, supposedly wielded a P08 during his assassination attack (Operation Anthropoid) in 1942. Your thoughts and comments are welcome.

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Obviously, high ranking officers can carry whatever they like. One only has to look to our own WWII general with the ivory handled Colt SAA.

jar said:

War Time sometimes involves expedience. I have a 1941 Walther made P38 that was later chromed once it got over here and a September 1942 JP Sauer 38h that was part of the estate of a gentleman that was in the 91st Infantry Division and so most likely picked it up in Italy or North Africa. Interestingly it came with a oft repaired CZ 27 holster and the repairs were all pretty crude, most likely field repairs.

I have always felt that there were two often mutually exclusive channels; the official issue channel and the make do with what I can get right now channel.

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Nice Holster for that pistola

shoobe01 said:

I believe also some for which branch or job. Aircrew got smaller guns, due to space, etc. I think. I have seen some Star Model S (I run the star-firearms site) with Luftwaffe marks, and reporting to back it. But... it's a giant complex topic, so I don't have a definitive answer.

I sorta think there is a book (or, trilogy of them) documenting some of the German small arms issue and marks? Maybe? Not this, but it may be interesting or the author may be able to answer the question or point you to the right place:
https://www.forgottenweapons.com/book-review-captured-arms-beutewaffen/

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I have a Mauser M1914 32 ACP that a friend of the family claimed came off a downed German pilot, so that fits in well.

My great uncle was a field hospital medic in Europe during WW-II,,,
He was one of the guys who searched the battlefields for fallen German survivors.

The only reason I remember this is I asked him was that where he got his Luger and the K-98 he brought back,,,
He said that's where he got the rifle but he traded something for the Luger.

He said that he didn't see one enlisted guy with a sidearm the entire time he was doing that,,,
Officers usually had a sidearm but regular grunts only had rifles.

This is from one memory of a sixty-plus year old conversation,,,
Don't take it as gospel

Aarond

.

I got one of those "German officer" pistols. It was a French 1935... I misremember if it was an A or an S, whichever was the later one.

I got it from an uncle who'd inherited it from an older relative, who swore he'd gotten it from a dead German officer.

Imagine my surprise when I did some research and discovered it was manufactured post-war.

Live and learn.

mgmorden said:

They also bought a bunch of Astra 600/43's from Spain.

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And don't forget the 300s, in both 32 and 380 calibers. The 32s were popular with the Luftwaffe pilots.

As an older tradition, many German officers were expected to supply their own pistol as part of their professional responsibility.

It was only in the actual war that they began to routinely issue pistols to many/most officers since there was no longer a civilian market to buy them from.
These were often .32 ACP's made by Mauser and Walther, later whatever the German military could get, even near-junk purchased from Spain.
Actual combat officers usually got a 9mm, very senior officers and generals almost always a commercial quality Mauser or Walther .32.
Some brands were preferred by various services, with the Mauser's favored by the Luftwaffe and Kreigsmarine.
As the war progressed a new officer might be given most any caliber and brand.
Pre and early war officers liked the Luger as somewhat a status symbol for it's high quality.

Some German enlisted were routinely issued pistols, usually larger models in 9mm.
Among these were most all Panzer crewman, machine gunners, and motorcycle dispatch riders.
If you look at film from the war you'll see that most machine gunners were wearing a pistol, but by late war that might not be possible.

My FIL has a Dreyse M1907. Interesting little gun in .32acp.

I recall once reading a claim that the germans issued several million handguns if one counts all civilian and military personnel. I do know that they seemed to have an insatiable demand for handguns and as mentioned they used captured factories to make them. They also used captured arms, including rifles.

My understanding, based on things I have read over the years, goes like this:

The Germans tried to keep actual combat units in the regular Army ("Wehrmacht") supplied with standard issue weapons, so they had priority for Lugers and P-38s. This broke down after the disasters of 1944 (the Falaise pocket in France and the "destruction of Army Group Center" in the East). After that, units got whatever was on hand, including 11mm Reichsrevolvers from before 1908.

The "private armies" of Hermann Goering and Heinrich Himmler got weapons from alternative sources. Paratroopers began to get FN High Powers after the fall of France. I have heard the SS got a lot of Radom P-35(p)'s, but I can't say I have seen photos to prove it.

Luftwaffe aircrew in bombers got Lugers at first (that is what the Krieghoff Luger contract was for) but they were replaced with 32 automatics after or during the Battle of Britain. I think Me-109 pilots may have had 32s from the start, because the 109 had a very cramped cockpit. I think the fighter pilot Heinz Knoke mentioned having a Mauser pistol at some point in his book "I Flew for the Fuehrer", but I don't remember what period of the war it was, and I don't think he said if it was a 1914 or an HSc.

Tank crewmen sometimes seem to have had 9mm pistols, and sometimes 32s. Tanks are also cramped, and I have read that tankers liked the Sauer 38H because it was both DA and hammerless.

I think rear area soldiers who were issued pistols (logistic units, rear area security, army flak, occupation troops, etc.) got a lot of the oddball or less desirable guns, like the FN 1922s, Hungarian P-37(h), the CZ 24, the Uniques, etc. In the Italian theater, they would get Berettas, at least after Italy surrendered in 1943. I've heard the occupation troops in Norway got the Norwegian 45s.

The Germans issued a LOT of pistols, as barnetmill says. I think this was because from 1939 until 1945, their troops were in countries where they were actively hated. Brutal reprisals kept the number of actual attacks low, but most troops would have felt safer with a gun, even when off-duty in quiet areas.

Just as a side note, nobody seems to know what was done with the pistols imported from Spain.

All the above, except for the part about Wehrmacht combat units, seems to be based on anecdotal evidence. I don't think the Germans were as well organized and systematic as people think they were. The spread of the war beyond Poland caught them by surprise, and after the first winter in Russia, they were always trying (and failing) to keep up with losses of equipment.

Also remember that Italy as an ally produced quite a few very reliable pistols from Beretta.

.455_Hunter said:

I can just see some luckless new Leutnant in late 1944 or early 1945 getting handed a mysterious Ruby style pistol in a "one size fits all" holster along with a box of maybe 16 rounds of .32 auto and told to defend the Fatherland to the last man...

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But was he issued a magazine made by the same company?

455_Hunter said: ↑
I can just see some luckless new Leutnant in late 1944 or early 1945 getting handed a mysterious Ruby style pistol in a "one size fits all" holster along with a box of maybe 16 rounds of .32 auto and told to defend the Fatherland to the last man...

jar said:

But was he issued a magazine made by the same company?

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In most armies if the weapon is issued it should have passed through the hands and inspection of an armorer, but during war maybe not.

Apparently this actually happened. Except the officer was a major not a colonel and major Winters apparently took the gun and kept it.

And I remember on the interview portion of that episode of Band of Brothers he showed the gun and said it was a 380 and it had never been fired