CCW: How Quick is Your Draw?

Status
Not open for further replies.

WrongHanded

Member
Joined
Jul 6, 2017
Messages
4,771
Let me get this out of the way: I'm not asking anyone to time their draw from concealment.

But I'm curious as to whether draw speed has anything to do with what gun you conceal carry, and how you carry it.

I was doing a little quick draw hip shooting this weekend, both with and without a cover garment. The gun was a 4.2" GP100, in an OWB holster strong side hip. Pretty quick without the cover garment (though I won't be winning any competitions any time soon). But with a cover garment (unbuttoned shirt) it is notably slower and a far call from the smoothness of drawing sans cover garment. I still wouldn't say as slow as some other methods though.

How much does speed of access play a part in your conceal carry decisions?
 
It's been a while since I've played with this with a timer, but clearing a pull-up cover garment added about half a second to my draw times versus no-concealment. Definitely a little slower.

I carry concealed 100% of the time in urban/suburban/retail environments anyway. For a whole bunch of reasons.
 
I prefer situational awareness to "quick draw."
Good, but many people who honestly believe that they practice situational awareness well do not.

It cannot be measured by a timer.

Rob Pincus likes to ask how many of his students request a braille menu in a restaurant, and he then proceeds to demonstrate how people who think they are aware can be done in instantly, with no warning.

Really good simulation training can help a lot.

No firearm is required.
 
Being "Quick Draw McGraw" doesn't help situational awareness.

Quick draw only helps when you're aware that you may need to draw. And in that instance, your hand should already be on the butt of your weapon.

I agree that "playing cowboy" is fun, and can in some limited ways enhance gun handling skills.

But I'm not at all convinced that it's even 10 percent as important as some " professional trainers" would have you believe.

I guess I'm still "old school"in that I am more concerned with how straight I shoot rather than hoe fast I draw.

Of course, gun games have different rules and priorities.
 
I understand we're not talking about quick-draw or timing the draw, or racing an opponent to the draw. Holster types, holster location, and choices in concealment garments do make a difference in how easy and practical it is to draw from concealment.

If I use a closed-front, woven garment (buttoned shirt, or zippered jacket that does not stretch), and a high-ride pancake belt holster, it is challenging to clear and draw. With this type of garment, which I am likely to wear, I will want the gun holstered in a lower position.

If I use an open-front garment, which I am less likely to wear, the garment is still likely to foul the draw from a high-ride holster when it's swept back.

But high-ride holsters have an advantage: they conceal well without swinging with leg every step I take.

If I use a closed-front, knit garment (pullover sweater, or sweatshirt that stretches), then I can pull the garment up high before drawing from a high-ride holster, but it generally requires two hands to do well. It's also not "cool." You pretty much have to yank the garment all the way up into your armpit. Don't try to look cool when you practice it. You pretty much have to act like a spaz to do it right. But I'd rather look like a spaz than screw it up.

Drawing from a holster where the grip is at or below the belt-line (this rules out all IWB carry) is easier to do right. Whatever type of concealment garment is used, only the very bottom of it has to be swept or lifted clear of the draw. The trade-off is the gun rides lower on the leg. A drop-leg holster would be an extreme example (though less practical to conceal). They are a pain if you have to do a lot of walking or running.

So yeah, it's not so much the quickness of the draw as measured by a shot timer that I care about, but from your question I think you already understood that. I do consider how challenging drawing from different concealment positions is.
 
I prefer situational awareness to "quick draw."

But why not both?

Situational awareness is a great thing. But when you become aware of the situation, there may not be much time before that situation becomes dangerous for you. Surely, being able to access our defensive firearm quickly could be of great benefit in a situation where we would need to use it.
 
Being "Quick Draw McGraw" doesn't help situational awareness.
True.

Quick draw only helps when you're aware that you may need to draw. And in that instance, your hand should already be on the butt of your weapon.
Don't believe it.

The question is whether one can produce the weapon quickly enough, and fire with a sufficient balance of speed and precision, to stop a violent criminal actor in a real self defense situation.
 
I'm going to go out on a limb here and say that many of us would be ridiculously clumsy in a situation where a fast, smooth draw would be preferred. Most of us, myself squarely counted in this group, are amateurs when it comes to mitigating a bad situation that involves physical self defense. I would like to think that I'm competent enough with my gun to get it out of its holster and draw down should I need to, but I won't win any contests of speed and I certainly won't look cool and collected (less John Wick and more Barney Fife, I'm sure). I will be honest and say that the likelihood that I make it out of an altercation would most likely greatly improve should I be lucky enough to have time to calculate the situation. Assess it, flee, and draw my weapon while being able to scan for danger. If its so bad that I have to draw and fire, I'm not prepared enough for that level of conflict. I would say a great majority of people who carry for personal protection are. We are less Sheepdogs protecting the flock and more Cornered Rats biting and scratching to get out alive, if we are honest with ourselves.

Obviously I am not talking about the number of you folks dedicated enough to train to a higher level. Just talking about the average schlub like me.

One of the reasons I find blousing a shirt around a gun for IWB concealment a lackluster method is that it makes the draw even more complicated and slow. If I can't carry OWB, I pocket carry. Fishing a NAA out of my pocket isn't fast, but I can wrench it out pretty quickly, especially if my hand is already casually resting on the grip. When I carry OWB I either wear a button down overshirt like a flannel or an oversized hoodie. If I am going outdoors where I plan on leaving my jacket on, that works as well. The hoodie slows me down the most, but I can toss back the tail of my shirt or jacket pretty quick. Any speed I can squeeze out will certainly get tossed out the window if it hits the fan.
 
I'm pretty slow on the draw.

re: situational awareness, I practice watching people, finding everyone as I walk around in stores, outside, etc. I try to spot everyone when they come in sight. I do the same while driving, trying to spot each car. If there's a line of cars (eg. on the highway) I try to spot differences ... old, fast, etc.
 
I'm pretty slow on the draw.

re: situational awareness, I practice watching people, finding everyone as I walk around in stores, outside, etc. I try to spot everyone when they come in sight. I do the same while driving, trying to spot each car.
Situational awareness is always good while assessing their weaknesses is always common sense. The trick is do it until is natural. That sounds easy; however, it isn't.
 
I've drawn a gun once while hiking and turning to see a mountain lion watching me. That was just curious. Another time I was woken suddenly from slumber when I thought someone was breaking in and grabbed a gun.

What I found interesting was that in both cases everything slowed way down, and I was actually somewhat happy in hind sight with how smooth my actions were. The first case I had my gun in hand and safety off very quickly while keeping my eyes on the cat. I walked the rest of the way back to my truck backwards. The wake up scenario I was out of bed, chambered a round and was headed for the door in what felt like less than 5 seconds.

Perception is strange. After both events, I found my hands shaking once the threat was over and I knew I did not need to shoot. Situational awareness should always be practiced, but some threats are unavoidable. A bit of quick draw/dry fire practice isn't a bad thing.
 
Last edited:
While I think getting a pistol quickly is nice and all, you really think you are going to outdraw a rampage shooter or a belt bomber? If you need a gun in your hand, it better be in your hand. If it is not in your hand I am very skeptical that being faster than a rattlesnake to clear leather is going to save you.
 
I live in shorts, silk shirts, and flip flops 99% of the time. Smooth is fast, you can’t miss fast enough.
 
While I think getting a pistol quickly is nice and all, you really think you are going to outdraw a rampage shooter or a belt bomber? If you need a gun in your hand, it better be in your hand. If it is not in your hand I am very skeptical that being faster than a rattlesnake to clear leather is going to save you.

That's pretty much my point, Slam, but you made it far better than I did.

To me, at least, situational awareness means that I will have the weapon in my hand, or at least have my hand on the weapon, before a shoot/no shoot decision needs to be made.

Perhaps I'm naive, but that's the way I see it.
 
While I think getting a pistol quickly is nice and all, you really think you are going to outdraw a rampage shooter or a belt bomber? If you need a gun in your hand, it better be in your hand. If it is not in your hand I am very skeptical that being faster than a rattlesnake to clear leather is going to save you.

I see your point. But if you need a gun in your hand, and it's not there already, you need to do something about that right? Or do you feel it is too late to do anything but acquiesce at that point? It reminds me of someone who once said to me, "If I need more than that, I'm in the wrong place!" Well obviously. But that doesn't magical make you not there.

I'm not suggesting that everyone carry in such a way as to be able to draw a gun the very fastest they can. But I am suggesting that perhaps a balance between easy of carry/concealment, and speed of access, is a sensible proposition. Because honestly, I don't care how good someone thinks their situational awareness is; unless they are obsessive/compulsive about watching everything around them at all times, at some point during daily activity, they will get distracted or miss something. No one has a sphere of omnipotence.
 
Actually, time to first shot from a nonthreatening position is what really matters.

The time for a hands-up/hands-at-your-sides-to-first-shot from concealed owb or iwb is much slower than having your hand on the butt of a concealed-hammer j-frame in a jacket pocket, and then firing through the pocket.

Beep-to-shot times for these alternatives is perhaps 1.5 seconds vs 0.5 seconds.

I practice both. But generally only carry iwb. So, I suppose that my answer to your question is that time to draw doesn't have much to do with the gun or carry method I have selected.
 
It does affect my choices in holster, cover garment and other factors. Green, yellow, red, HOT. In situation "Green," the loaded weapon I'm carrying is probably more of a threat than any external forces. Retention holster engaged, cover garment...whatever, situational awareness on cruise control. "Yellow"... Heightened situational awareness (listed first on purpose). I may shift the holster to a slight forward cant, and check cover garment for snags. If it was tucked in, it no longer is. I'll thumb the active retention detent a few times to ensure function and "remember" it's location. Condition red...I've never had this in civilian carry. Went from Yellow to Hot once... I'm no longer carrying concealed, cover garment is tucked in behind the holster. Situational awareness has focused on an individual or group with passing attention to the flanks, and I am manuevering to a tactical advantage in cover, concealment, position.

Based on this doctrine, I carry in semi urban settings only with a slimline, OWB hard shell duty holster with active retention. My standard cover garment is either a lined flannel hoodie, utility coat or other heavy coat. They are all slightly modified to stiffen the area covering the holster making draw from cover significantly easier and concealment more complete. I stitch fiberglass drywall mesh into this area.
 
Smooth is fast, you can’t miss fast enough.

I am going to touch on both of these as they are oft-repeated mantras that aren't necessarily based on fact.

Smooth is not necessarily fast. I have had classes with 3 and 4 second smooth drawing folks that are a full 1.5 -2.5 seconds behind other shooters on the first shot. Just because you are smooth does not mean that you are fast. It just means that you are smooth. The phrase is great for helping people to learn to draw better, but does not necessarily reflect reality.

As for not missing fast enough to win, it happens all the time. Winning doesn't mean you have killed the threat, only that you have made the threat stop being a threat. Here Granny misses and wins against a numerically superior number of robbers...


Obviously, you don't want errant shots that aren't on the threat target. Down range danger caused by errant shots can be devastating to innocent parties. Be that as it may, you CAN miss fast enough to win. Heck, people manage to win without even firing a shot.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top