Pietta 1873 44 cal. Black powder

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That looks like a good fun day at the range, sometimes we just take black powder guns to the range and I look forward to those days, my only pistol is a single shot.
 
One of my muzzle loading students brought one of these to the class. It shot fine but the cylinder had to be removed and loaded on a separate loading press since there is no loading lever/ram on the pistol. Apparently these are popular in Europe were cartridge revolvers require special permits.
 
Now I’ve seen it all. Conversion cylinder for a centerfire. Didn’t know they did that. My Uberti 1873 has both 45C and 45ACP. A cap cylinder would be a nice addition. :)
 
Not a conversion. It is purpose built as a C&B revolver.

Too much needs to be changed for a cf to be converted.

Kevin
 
Not a conversion. It is purpose built as a C&B revolver.
Yes. Notice that the opening for the hammer nose is offset to the right, and that the nipples are likewise offset within the chambers.

To convert between cartridge and C&B, your best bet is to use a C&B revolver (a Remington '58 repro is ideal) and a conversion cylinder.
 
What I do not understand in this day of computer operated machining is why no one has made a cylinder to convert a .45 Combo Blackhawk to C&B... you would think the Preppers would eat them up. Offer a model with traditional nipples and one for shotgun primers like are popular on Faux CF revolvers in No Longer So Great Britain, BTW.

I was sorely tempted around y2k by those Faux SAA but dithered between one of those and the Millineum SAA long enough I got neither.

-kBob
 
kBob, it would be rather anemic. The ROA has a longer cyl window which allows for the nipple section. But, I have designed a gated conversion for the ROA which would allow cartridge cyls for 45 acp, 45C (which would allow use of "Ruger only" loads) and possibly a 5 shot 454 Casull. So, all is not lost for the preppers . . . (or, all the smart people !! Lol!!) !

Mike
 
These seem good at least the current production Pietta model 1873 Cap and Ball. They have deep safety notches so you can load six, a very smooth slick (click click click click) action with an easy to pull back hammer. Fit and finish is very good with tight cylinder lockup. The insides were clean and burr free but with sharp edges. It looks like all the problems that Dragoon described in them such as the part on the hammer that engages the cylinder locking latch being too high is addressed in the current model examined. It's very low in fact.

Striker on hammer jiggles slightly this is not a defect but part of it's design. The striker is pinned in place on the hammer and is removable. This is allows you to change the striker (it looks easy to manufacture and fit) if needed without having to buy a complete hammer. That is nice.

Cylinder pin has 2 notches in it that is locked in by a push-in spring loaded plunger located in front of the cylinder under the barrel on the side (the one with the slotted screw.) One notch is for regular cylinder rotation and the other allows your cylinder pin to protrude through the back of the recoil shield (hole drilled straight through) directly blocking the hammer from making contact with the nipple. Even if seldom used it's not a bad feature.

I don't know why they didn't just mill the notches on the cylinder pin all the way around instead of just the bottom which makes proper orientation for insertion a learned and practiced skill.

I wonder if a new pin can be purchased and the notches dremmeled around the full circumference of the pin. I think it's doable. Does anyone disagree ? Has anyone done this ?

This also has a cylinder bushing that extends under the forcing cone. Can someone who has shot this tell us if the bushing is good enough to prevent powder residue from fowling the cylinder pin and causing binding like in the Remington new model army ?

Hovey Smith had a problem with multiple chain fires (multiple chambers at once) on his (an older model.) I think this was due to all the nipples slamming on the recoil shield during firing. If this was a common problem then It is not now if the current ones are like the current model examined. The nipples are now nowhere near the recoil shield and I have not read of this happening frequently or at all recently.

Out of the box it had a rough creepy trigger pull on the heavy side. After dry firing multiple times with a chop stick blocking the hammer from pounding the nipple and a good oiling The trigger pull got better it was no longer excessively rough and felt lighter. Trigger creep was reduced a little but still remained for the most part. All in all in the end a slick smooth action with an acceptable trigger pull but far from a smooth light crisp pull that a well done trigger job by a pro would produce.

Powder charge is slightly reduced due to a shorter cylinder but you can still put at least 30 grains of powder (probably more with Pyrodex or just plain more ?) behind a round ball so it is not limited to anemic charges.

Cylinder chambers are advertised a .447. I have never slugged the bore or personally shot one of these so I can't vouch for accuracy or reliability.

The hammer spring is lighter and in my opinion that makes proper fitting percussion caps more of an issue as would be on any percussion gun with a lighter hammer spring.

Although some people may disagree there are some redeeming qualities to having a heavy hammer spring that causes your hammer to smash and obliterate your percussion caps to ignition whether they fit well or not but you will give up that nice smooth easy slick hammer pull it you do.

These type of guns were originally only sold in Europe and countries other than the US. They are purposely designed from the ground up to make conversion to center fire difficult in order to comply with existing draconian gun laws.

You will just have to trust in the fact that their research and development team is not going to risk company profits by doing anything other than designing this thing to be impractical to convert to center fire.

I guess enough people liked it here in the US that it is also imported here as well these days.

Will someone here please shoot one of these and report on reliability (pick your percussion caps carefully) and accuracy.

I read an exception is made in the rules to allow these to be used in single action cowboy shooting in countries where legally owning a centerfire gun is too difficult for the average person.
 
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Cylinder pin has 2 notches in it that is locked in by a push-in spring loaded plunger located in front of the cylinder under the barrel on the side (the one with the slotted screw.) One notch is for regular cylinder rotation and the other allows your cylinder pin to protrude through the back of the recoil shield (hole drilled straight through) directly blocking the hammer from making contact with the nipple. Even if seldom used it's not a bad feature.

I don't know why they didn't just mill the notches on the cylinder pin all the way around instead of just the bottom which makes proper orientation for insertion a learned and practiced skill.

I wonder if a new pin can be purchased and the notches dremmeled around the full circumference of the pin. I think it's doable. Does anyone disagree ? Has anyone done this ?
That's the "Swiss Safety" base pin. If you look closely at the pictures of Gunny's gun (at the top of this page), it has the base pin grooves milled all the way around. Maybe this varies according to when the guns were manufactured.

VTI Gun Parts Has Uberti base pins, both with the double grooves and with single grooves. These Uberti base pins fit original Colt SAAs and Armi San Marcos, so I don't see why they wouldn't fit Piettas as well. (I didn't like the "Swiss Safety" pins (not authentic), so I replaced them on several Ubertis as well as on an ASM. These were all cartridge guns, but I'm pretty sure this part is the same on the cap and ball versions.)
 
That's the "Swiss Safety" base pin. If you look closely at the pictures of Gunny's gun (at the top of this page), it has the base pin grooves milled all the way around. Maybe this varies according to when the guns were manufactured.

VTI Gun Parts Has Uberti base pins, both with the double grooves and with single grooves. These Uberti base pins fit original Colt SAAs and Armi San Marcos, so I don't see why they wouldn't fit Piettas as well. (I didn't like the "Swiss Safety" pins (not authentic), so I replaced them on several Ubertis as well as on an ASM. These were all cartridge guns, but I'm pretty sure this part is the same on the cap and ball versions.)
I have my 1873 Black powder revolver listed for sale in the Black Powder ad section of the forum.
 
The Uberti Base pin with double grooves is a perfect fit. No more fiddling around to align a single notch cutout. Just slide in and it locks into place. The knob looks better too. The second safety notch is not visible either. I suppose the single groove would fit also.

I would also like to point out my impression of this thing as a black powder firearm is it's portable, powerful, most likely reliable (I have not shot one,) and aside from a good cleaning should work right out of the box.

It's a natural pointer, does not have a hair trigger, and aside from trigger creep the action is easy to work, slick, and smooth with tight lockup.

For someone who want's this model in a muzzleloader it is great.

The reason why this great firearm is an under rated underdog is because it can be easily purchased in it's original cartridge configuration rated for clean more powerful smokeless powder by those who live in free states or others who have special privileges (upper class people with high social standing combined with high income and pricey hard to get firearm licenses) in antigun gun owner witch hunt areas.

People also don't like the fact that they can not easily be converted to fire cartridges by design.

Unfortunately, I hate to say it, this is a positive thing legally in states that punish firearm owners who are good people because of the actions of depraved criminals and the state's unwillingness to address the social issues that are the underlying causes of violence in general and people's indifference toward it.
 
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I see absolutely no point in that revolver. It’s like a blackpowder AR 15. Why? Looks nice but either get an 1860 Army or an 1873 SAA clone. Otherwise your getting the worst of both worlds.
I always figured those cap guns where aimed at folks who where unable to legally purchase a cartridge firearm.
 
I see absolutely no point in that revolver. It’s like a blackpowder AR 15. Why? Looks nice but either get an 1860 Army or an 1873 SAA clone. Otherwise your getting the worst of both worlds.
I always figured those cap guns where aimed at folks who where unable to legally purchase a cartridge firearm.


Yes that is exactly the folks they are made for. These were made for cowboy action shooters in other countries where cartridge firearms are very hard to own legally. Unfortunately some states in the US are almost as bad in that respect.

I can imagine one of the reasons they were initially not sold in the US is because of people who share your opinion but now they are and there is a place for them here in the US.

The AR analogy is over the top.

1873 type single action guns are very close evolutions of cap and ball revolvers and aside from using metal cartridges function the same in almost every way.

You are not getting worst of both worlds. They have cylinder bushings which should solve the cylinder binding problem, should be relatively free from cap jams,. I think they balance and point better than most front heavy muzzle loaders.

The 1873 was originally designed to function with black powder cartridges (overall a black powder design) until smokeless became widely available and even better steel was made. Loading an older model 1873 with smokeless can blow it up.

I think the benefits of this cap and ball version outweigh the drawbacks of not having a loading lever from a standpoint of practical function.

Despite being cap and ball black powder only guns they are nice and a good way for others to experience the fun of shooting an 1873 who otherwise can not..

Don't be such a kill joy.
 
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Not a conversion. It is purpose built as a C&B revolver.

Too much needs to be changed for a cf to be converted.

Kevin
That IS a Euro style revolver specifically for their market, awhile back Sportsmans Guide imported some for the US market, they apparently sold well, cheaper than their 45 Colt counterpart, no FFL, and no way to convert them. I thought the Guide was selling ROA's, but a friend found an old catalog and like that one's DGW label, they had Sportsman's Guide on the barrel, I have a NAA B/P with Sportsman's Guide on the side plate.
 
It is exactly like a blackpowder AR. A more modern firearm built with an obsolete ignition system just to have looks but not the function. Facts are facts. Don’t take it personally. I have no horse in this race but I thought opinions were welcomed on this forum regardless if you agree or not.
 
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