Different springs for different loads? (1911 45 ACP)

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a__l__a__n

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I've recently acquired my first 1911 (used ATI Commander GI) and am learning as I go. I've found a couple of types of range ammo that work ok, and am planning to reload my own moderate rounds (200 gn RN at maybe 750 fps) when that runs out.

Meanwhile, I picked up a couple of boxes of 185 grain Golden Saber based on prevailing opinions that it cycles well in a lot of 1911s. Unfortunately I found that with my ATI, it sometimes fails to enter battery after a shot without a manual slingshot of the slide. That seems like a symptom of a weak spring to me. I've ordered a Wilson Combat Custom Tune spring kit hoping the stronger spring would address the problem. (The kit comes with both a 12 lb and a 20 lb recoil spring).

I'm wondering whether the soft range ammo I have in mind will cycle the action with a 20 lb spring. Is it realistic that I can get both types of ammo to cycle with the same springs? Is it common / normal / necessary to switch between two different springs when switching between range ammo and self defense ammo?

Thanks in advance for any insights.
 
Standard recoil spring weight for Government Model (5") 1911 is 16 lbs.

Edit to add: I overlooked the "Commander size" comment. I think the 20 lb recoil spring is the standard for a Commander gun.

I picked up a couple of boxes of 185 grain Golden Saber ... Unfortunately I found that with my ATI, it sometimes fails to enter battery after a shot without a manual slingshot of the slide. That seems like a symptom of a weak spring to me.
Or perhaps your pistol is not willing to feed that bullet profile and it is getting hung up on the feed ramp.

There are lots of variables to 1911's, from springs to barrels to mags to just about anything.

A 5" 1911 shooting 230gr ball ammo is the entering argument. Once you veer off that path you've brought in some variables and if your gun isn't working right you're going to have to figure out what the issue is.
 
*Most manufacturers use 18lb recoil springs in Commanders. I drop to 14lb springs with really light load 185gn TWCs,
 
I have run some very soft reloads in 3", 4", 4 1/4", and 5" 1911s with standard spring weights and no issues. The 3" is the most likely to have an issue if you go really light. A 5" 1911 can run really light.
That seems like a symptom of a weak spring to me
I disagree, look for another issue.

A light load function test in a 5" 1911.

.
 
Or perhaps your pistol is not willing to feed that bullet profile and it is getting hung up on the feed ramp.
There are lots of variables to 1911's, from springs to barrels to mags to just about anything.
My experience as well. Short bullet profiles, feed ramp angle, magazine feed lip contours, and magazine followers can all play a part in FTF issues. I had to polish the feed ramp and went through 3 magazine brands for my first 1911 until I found one that would cycle everything I had by hand every time.
 
Its a "used" gun so you have no idea what spring is in it. Also have you tried different magazines? It may be related.
Put a new factory rated spring in it and go from there.

I bought one of those Wilson Combat spring packs that came in a nifty canvas roll bag. Thinking I was gonna need it as someone said I did, I have yet to change out a spring in my semi Custom CZ Valor 1911.:)

Or buy the recoil spring pack here, and try not to get them messed up. Been there done that
Standard is 18lb.

https://www.gunsprings.com/COLT/COMMANDER SERIES PISTOL/cID1/mID1/dID2
 
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Its a "used" gun so you have no idea what spring is in it. Also have you tried different magazines? It may be related.
Put a new factory rated spring in it and go from there.

I bought one of those Wilson Combat spring packs that came in a nifty canvas roll bag. Thinking I was gonna need it as someone said I did, I have yet to change out a spring in my semi Custom CZ Valor 1911.:)
I thought of that - part of why I ordered new springs.

I'm guessing that the pound rating on these springs is really lbs/inch (F=Kx so 20 lbs deflects the spring 1 inch, etc). On that theory I could test this spring to see what it has left in it. It does cycle various other ammo, as long as the length and nose profile are within the parameters of this particular gun.

Editing to add: Magazines that came to me with the gun: one ACT magazine that was original equipment with the gun, and one ETM Wilson Combat magazine. I have added a Wilson Combat 47D magazine. All of them work 100% with the round nose ammo I have. And with some round nose dummy rounds I made.
 
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As stated above the factory rated spring for a Commander is 18#. And I would be surprised if your planned load of a 200g bullet at 750 fps cycled reliably with a 20# recoil spring. I have seen people with weak grips or poor stance have feeding problems with Ball in a gun that had a 20# recoil spring.

YMMV,
Dave
 
I thought of that - part of why I ordered new springs.

I'm guessing that the pound rating on these springs is really lbs/inch (F=Kx so 20 lbs deflects the spring 1 inch, etc). On that theory I could test this spring to see what it has left in it. It does cycle various other ammo, as long as the length and nose profile are within the parameters of this particular gun.

I edited my post. The main thing will be how far in "throws" the spent brass and if the slide is slamming hard on recoil. Too soft a spring and it tosses the brass and beats the gun. Golden Sabers should function well in the gun. I would change out mag springs and the recoil so you know where you are fresh.
 
Tossing the brass is an issue. About half the time the brass hits me in the head. And most of the ejected brass has a dent in the rim. Maybe I need to do something with the ejector face. OTOH the previous owner used this gun in competition, so I presume it wasn't doing that for him. Maybe he pulled some aftermarket parts out of it before trading,
 
A competition gun is frequently loaded to make a minimum power factor which is often less then a hot defense load.
I'd bet you just need to replace some springs for hotter loads.
You might find that a lighter load is easier to live with.
 
A competition gun is frequently loaded to make a minimum power factor which is often less then a hot defense load.
I'd bet you just need to replace some springs for hotter loads.
You might find that a lighter load is easier to live with.
That's kinda what I'm thinking. Anyway, I'm not particularly recoil shy (but my experience is more with 44 magnum / 357 magnum revolvers rather than big bore semi-autos)
 
Tossing the brass is an issue. About half the time the brass hits me in the head.
If you're getting line drives straight back at you, the problem is the brass isn't clearing the ejection port soon enough to avoid being smacked by the forward edge of the ejection port. The slide then smacks the case straight to the rear.

Not clearing the ejection port in a timely fashion can be the result of an extractor losing control of the extracted case which results in the ejector not getting a solid hit on it. It can also be the result of an improperly shaped extractor that does not allow the case to rotate upwards as it hits the ejector which in turn results in the empty case being ejected directly into the wall of the slide below the ejection port causing the case to bounce up just in time to get hit by the forward edge of the ejection port.

If the previous owner used light loads then the forces acting upon the extracted case would be less than using standard factory ammo thus allowing the extractor to function without displaying any malfunction symptoms.
 
Light load function??? The problem happens with Golden Sabers. Light loads run fine.
I'm wondering whether the soft range ammo I have in mind will cycle the action with a 20 lb spring. Is it realistic that I can get both types of ammo to cycle with the same springs? Is it common / normal / necessary to switch between two different springs when switching between range ammo and self defense ammo?
I answered that paragraph.

But, the answer is the same for the Golden Sabers, I do not believe it is a spring problem.

Golden Sabers, both 185 Gr and 230 Gr, run great in my 1911s.
 
If you're getting line drives straight back at you, the problem is the brass isn't clearing the ejection port soon enough to avoid being smacked by the forward edge of the ejection port. The slide then smacks the case straight to the rear.

Not clearing the ejection port in a timely fashion can be the result of an extractor losing control of the extracted case which results in the ejector not getting a solid hit on it. It can also be the result of an improperly shaped extractor that does not allow the case to rotate upwards as it hits the ejector which in turn results in the empty case being ejected directly into the wall of the slide below the ejection port causing the case to bounce up just in time to get hit by the forward edge of the ejection port.

If the previous owner used light loads then the forces acting upon the extracted case would be less than using standard factory ammo thus allowing the extractor to function without displaying any malfunction symptoms.

My extractor passes the test shown in this Wilson Combat video:


However I suspect it might actually have too much tension (too tight a grip on the case rim). I can shake the slide quite vigorously without the case coming lose. Much more vigorously than the example in the video.

If the problem is the shape of the extractor hook, that might be a bit too tricky for me to try on my own. Maybe I should spend $32 on a Wilson Combat extractor?
 
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