Colt 1911 Government 45

I could be wrong, but I believe they are refreshing some model names....same guns, different names so we think we need another.

I just checked Bud’s....they have the 1991 for around $750 and the 1911C for around $850. My guess is that the 1911c is replacing the 1991. Seem very similar. If you want a 1991, I’d jump on the few they have left.

People have complained about the 80 series for ages. Not sure exactly why, I have 3 of them and I don't see anything wrong with the triggers. Functionally they feel the same to me. I'm not a competitive shooter so maybe the pros can tell the difference, but I can't.

Colt has been moving away from the series 80 for awhile now. They just reached the bottom of the parts barrel and changed it back.

1991 is a nice pistol. I have an original (1991) and a newer one. My newer one is tight as a tick and shoots very well for production pistol. Not saying they all will, just that I got a very good one. My dealer hand picked it for me from about 6 he had in stock.

My Colts have been great.

I’ve owned a Gold Cup since the early eighties. Series 80. Now I hate at this late stage to admit it but what’s the difference in the 70 and 80.

A little story if anyone has read this far. In 2005 or there abouts wife and I stopped in Connecticut at the Colt plant, we were on our annual Rhode Island to Florida run. My GoldCup had what seemed to me a loose slide, the roll pin holding the rear sight was broken in the middle of the hole and the gun was erratic in where it threw the brass. At their customer service center in the plant they logged the gun in and
Agreed they would mail it back to me at the Florida address. I ask the guy how they would address the loose slide, “We put in in a big vise squeeze and hope it doesn’t crack”. Three weeks later it arrived at my Florida home. Slide was tighter, rear sight was safely pinned and they had polished and sculpted the ejection cutout. No charge. I’m not sure if the vise squeeze statement was true or not. Many thousands of rounds and I’m ashamed to say I’ve been unable to master the gun. I do much better on the range with revolvers. So it’s pretty much a safe queen now. The oldest boy has dibs on it when the time comes.

Nowadays, people refer to the Series 70 as 1911’s without the firing pin safety. Originally they were equipped with a collet bushing that held the barrel tighter for better accuracy. The collets’ fingers had a tendency to break and I believe that part has been discontinued.

So I guess you could now refer to a 100 year old gun as a “Series 70”.

Graywolf686

I picked up a few Colts some years back (one of them has the "100 Years of Service" rollmark on the slide). The dealer I went to (also a custom 1911 gunsmith), said that the guns being made at that time were some of the best built Colts he had seen in a very long time. Found a Lightweight Government Model in .45 that I liked a lot; felt great in my hand and had a nice balance to it. Planned on using it at the range and for concealed carry.

Went back a week later and picked up a Government Model, also in .45 though I had my choice of getting it in .38 Super as well. This one would be mainly for the range and for handloads testing and development. Finally got my .38 Super but this one's a Lightweight Commander Model. All of them have excellent triggers, easy to acquire sights, and are solid, well built guns.

CoalTrain49 said:

People have complained about the 80 series for ages. Not sure exactly why, I have 3 of them and I don't see anything wrong with the triggers. Functionally they feel the same to me. I'm not a competitive shooter so maybe the pros can tell the difference, but I can't.

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I had a finger break off the collet bushing. Did not find out till I disassembled the pistol, but I am certain it could have caused troubles.

That is why I replaced the collect with a solid bushing





All I did was install the Ed Brown part, aim in the middle of the gong, and this was first shot. I had to stop and take a picture. Because this looks very impressive, and I know extra shots would not have been in the same spot, I did not want to blow the illusion that I do this all the time!





But the real killer, in my opinion, is the firing pin block plunger. It is spring loaded, it points down, and I have had the thing come down and block slide closure while shooting the pistol. It just takes the right combination of firing pin position and bad luck, but it will drop down when the slide is back and prevent the slide from going into battery. Because you cannot see it (easily) and it is something that takes a pointy object, like a chop stick, to push back in place, along with a chop stick to push the firing pin forward, I consider this unacceptable in a self defense weapon. This device is fine at the range, you can take all day with the pistol on the shooting table to puzzle out why your slide is blocked open. And you can go to your vehicle and find something to push down on these devices. All you have done is waste shooting time. However, if it drops down in an emergency situation, I don't believe the opposition will stop what they are doing in order for you to fix your M1911. Assuming you can recognize what is going on.

I am not a fan of the Swartz firing pin safety either. I removed the spring and firing pin block out of this Kimber. I don't know if it is better system than the Colt series 80 parts, but I do not think it is an improvement in terms of function reliability than the original series 70 1911.



I did not remove the lever connected to the grip safety that pushes the Swartz firing pin block up. Which is part #25. This part makes reassembly tricky because I can't hold the frame and grip safety because part #25 is pushed up.

Slamfire said:

The series 80 trigger firing pin block plunger lever add an extra degree of difficult in reassembling the pistol. I have enough trouble assembling the series 70 sear and disconnector parts and the addition of a plunger lever makes reassembly even more difficult.

View attachment 865640

But the real killer, in my opinion, is the firing pin block plunger. It is spring loaded, it points down, and I have had the thing come down and block slide closure while shooting the pistol. It just takes the right combination of firing pin position and bad luck, but it will drop down when the slide is back and prevent the slide from going into battery. Because you cannot see it (easily) and it is something that takes a pointy object, like a chop stick, to push back in place, along with a chop stick to push the firing pin forward, I consider this unacceptable in a self defense weapon. This device is fine at the range, you can take all day with the pistol on the shooting table to puzzle out why your slide is blocked open. And you can go to your vehicle and find something to push down on these devices. All you have done is waste shooting time. However, if it drops down in an emergency situation, I don't believe the opposition will stop what they are doing in order for you to fix your M1911. Assuming you can recognize what is going on.

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Isn't this a potential issue with every pistol with a firing pin block, from a SIG P220, to a Glock 17, to a CZ75B, to, well, just about every semi-auto pistol made today.

Like CoalTrain49, I’ve not had any problems with my Series 80 Colts. But, they have been shot much either.

I’m comfortable working on a Series 70 but have not ventured into the trigger system of a Series 80.

For competition gun, I’d stick with a Series 70. Slamfire brings up some good points for avoiding a self defense Series 80 as well.

I liked the finger collet bushing but it broke a finger, jammed the gun and started a crack at the junction of the dust shield and the main part of the frame. Colt replaced the bushing but I eventually replaced the collet bushing with a solid one.


The dust shield could fall off and not hurt anything so I continued to use the frame watching the crack. I shot the frame as 45 ACP for a while, rechambered the gun to 38/45 Clerke and finally coverted the frame to 22LR. Under the heavy recoil of the centerfire rounds, the crack continued to slowly grow. Not so with the 22RF.

JTQ said:

Isn't this a potential issue with every pistol with a firing pin block, from a SIG P220, to a Glock 17, to a CZ75B, to, well, just about every semi-auto pistol made today.

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Depends on the particulars of the design. I have not disassembled my SIG P220 to see how the firing pin block on that pistol functions. But at least for the series 80 we know it will drop down. And, this was well known about the series 80 before mine dropped down.

Colt took an existing design and modified it. The original 1911 did not have a firing pin block, therefore this is a modification, and not a total redesign. I believe a design in which the firing pin block is integral and part of the design intent, this failure mode would have been taken into consideration, and designed out.

Most people that broke fingers off the collet bushing failed to read the manual. You needed to retract the slide a bit before turning the bushing.

Slamfire said:

Depends on the particulars of the design. I have not disassembled my SIG P220 to see how the firing pin block on that pistol functions. But at least for the series 80 we know it will drop down. And, this was well known about the series 80 before mine dropped down.

Colt took an existing design and modified it. The original 1911 did not have a firing pin block, therefore this is a modification, and not a total redesign. I believe a design in which the firing pin block is integral and part of the design intent, this failure mode would have been taken into consideration, and designed out.

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SIG P-Series https://www.realgunreviews.com/sig-sauer-classic-p-series-p226-p220-p229-internal-animations/2/

The reason the CZ75B is a "B" is because the gun was modified to add a firing pin safety.

Nearly every semi-auto has a firing pin safety and nearly all (admittedly not all) are a plunger in the slide that moves up and down.

If you don't like a firing pin safety on your 1911's that's fine, there are a bunch of options without them, but a firing pin safety on a semi-auto pistol is not an oddity, and for the most part should not be feared as a failure point any more than any other part on a gun, as nearly all semi-autos them have one.

JTQ said:

SIG P-Series https://www.realgunreviews.com/sig-sauer-classic-p-series-p226-p220-p229-internal-animations/2/

The reason the CZ75B is a "B" is because the gun was modified to add a firing pin safety.

Nearly every semi-auto has a firing pin safety and nearly all (admittedly not all) are a plunger in the slide that moves up and down.

If you don't like a firing pin safety on your 1911's that's fine, there are a bunch of options without them, but a firing pin safety on a semi-auto pistol is not an oddity, and for the most part should not be feared as a failure point any more than any other part on a gun, as nearly all semi-autos them have one.

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Thanks for the link, and it makes me feel better about my P220.

If you notice, similar to the Swartz, the safety plunger on the P220 has a projection that fits over the firing pin. The firing pin has a top notch that corresponds to the safety plunger projection. Given the right height of the plunger projection and notch depth, that plunger can be made so that it does not drop down and interfere with the frame when the slide closes.

The Swartz, that saddle can be made such that the down arm does not drop down and interfere and block the slide closing.



However, that Colt series 80 firing pin plunger, there is nothing to keep it from dropping down below the slide level, and that spring is always pushing it down. You remove the firing pin safety plunger from below, by pressing the firing pin in, till the plunger clears the notch.



Not a good design in my opinion, but easy to introduce into production. All Colt had to do is mill a hole, add a couple of parts, mill a slot into firing pin. The Swartz took a lot more milling for its firing pin block.

Texas10mm said:

Most people that broke fingers off the collet bushing failed to read the manual. You needed to retract the slide a bit before turning the bushing.

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Maybe a bunch of folks turned the collet bushing without retracting the slide.

But frankly, I found it darn near impossible to turn the collet bushing, even with a bushing wrench, on my Series 70 M1911 without retracting the slide for disassembly of the pistol.

Out of habit, I still retract the slide a bit when turning the solid bushings on my M1911s.

Graywolf686 said:

I know people in my neck of the woods who have series 80 Colts and shoot alot and have never had trouble with the fpb safety. Visiting different forums and reading what other people talk about their 80 series don’t mention having problems with them either. But if you worry about them they are easy to do away with using a little plate from Brownells for $7

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Are you referring to this? : TJS CUSTOM - TJ'S 1911 SERIES '80 TO SERIES '70 CONVERSION SHIMS

TJ's 1911 Series '80 to Series '70 Conversion Shims© (Frame Slot Filler) replace the gap used by the "Colt Series '80 Firing Pin Block Actuating Levers" when removed by gunsmiths for crisper trigger pulls.

It is necessary to fill this frame gap so the sear will not wander over and lock up the sear / trigger mechanism.

Shim/slot filler fits in the frame cutout, permitting Series 70 slides and components to be fitted to Series 80 frames. No alteration, drop-in fit.

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Is this supposed to be used after removing the firing pin block plunger?

Maybe others have not had the problem with their firing pin block plunger that I have had, but you know, when you have it, you know it is real. Improbable things happen every day. By the way Bill Wilson mentions this in his gunsmithing book on the 1911.

I am certain that anyone who wants to convert their series 70 pistol to a series 80 pistol can do so, given enough money. But I don't think that is the direction the market is going, given that there are so many series 70 pistols out there, and that Colt is dropping the model from production.

Slamfire said:

However, that Colt series 80 firing pin plunger, there is nothing to keep it from dropping down below the slide level, and that spring is always pushing it down.

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In the above, it sounds like you're saying the Series 80 plunger will drop out of the gun if the slide is removed from the frame.

However, as you say below, you can't remove the plunger until you remove the firing pin. Unless your firing pin falls out, the firing pin safety plunger shouldn't drop down. The plunger is trapped by the firing pin.

You remove the firing pin safety plunger from below, by pressing the firing pin in, till the plunger clears the notch.

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I bought a Colt Combat Commander some years ago. When I disassemble the pistol completely I realized that the person who owned the pistol before me converted it to a series 70 by removing the arm that lifts the firing pin plunger and added a flat plate. I ordered the new arm from Colt and installed to bring it back to a series 80. I have never had a problem with it or noticed any difference in it's action. I carried it for many years after.

JTQ said:

In the above, it sounds like you're saying the Series 80 plunger will drop out of the gun if the slide is removed from the frame.

However, as you say below, you can't remove the plunger until you remove the firing pin. Unless your firing pin falls out, the firing pin safety plunger shouldn't drop down. The plunger is trapped by the firing pin.

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You are right, I have a fuzzy memory of the relationship and function of the series 80 parts. I had to dig a Colt series 80 out. I have not fired one in a decade or more, after I decided series 70 was the way to go.

The plunger is held in by the extractor. So it won't fall completely out unless you remove the extractor. It will however, drop down given a shifting of the firing pin and extractor. I think it fails this way: A sticky case pulls the extractor forward, the slide moves back during recoil, and the inertia of the firing pin and extractor spring is such that occasionally the firing pin is far enough forward for the plunger to drop down. I did not experience a complete removal of the plunger, but I sure did experience it falling down enough to prevent the slide from going into battery. And I am not the only person to have experienced this.

Playing with the firing pin, plunger, extractor, again reinforces why I do not like the series 80. I have to use two punches, to depress the firing pin and the plunger, (having the firing pin spring loose!) to get the firing pin stop in place. There are too many spring loaded parts.