Berrys 121gr hbhp 9mm load data

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length_of_pull_1

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I am new to reloading and I recently picked up a box of Berry's 121gr hollow base hollow point projectiles. I brought them home and instantly found I couldn't find any load data on them at all. My next step was to call Berry's and I was promptly informed that they also have no load data on the things (I know, right?). The OAL of the projectile is .576", and the next closest thing I could find was the 124gr XTP with the same OAL. I used the data I could find on those to guess that a 3.8gr charge of titegroup with a COAL of 1.120" would be an ok place to start. Any advice is greatly appreciated, Thanks!
 
The X-Treme 124 Gr HP is .536 long & the Powerbond 124 Gr HP is.535 long and I load them both @ 1.060 +/- OAL.

At this OAL I run them both at 1050ish from a 5" barrel (Think 4.0 Grs N320/3.9 Grs Sport Pistol) with no issues. The Powerbond can take anything the 9MM can dish out and can be run harder, maybe the X-Treme as well, but I haven't proven that.

The first rendition of the RMR TrFP Match Winner is .555 long and I seat it @ 1.073 to 1.075 OAL. 3.9 Grs of Sport Pistol runs it a hair faster than the X-Treme & Powerbond bullets @ 1.060. 4.0 Grs of W-244 pushed the RMR to right at 1100 FPS.

Maybe that data can help. I don't load Titegroup.

Hodgon shows a max of Titegroup of 4.1 Grs with the Berrys 124 Gr HBRN-TP bullet which is .616 long, loaded to 1.150, and a hollow base like the newer 121 Gr HBHP you have.

Do the math and at about 1.140 OAL for the 121 Gr HBHP they would both be seated to the same depth. So at that OAL of 1.140 for the 121 Gr bullet I would feel good about 3.8 Grs of Titegroup and feel like there is a little wiggle room. At your selected 1.120 OAL I would not feel quite as froggy for 3.8 as a start charge.

Maybe the Titegroup crowd can chime in.

Welcome to THR
 
Thank you for the welcome!

I really appreciate the input and it has helped me look at this from a different perspective. I spent some time really crunching numbers and while I was at it saw that Berry's gives a 1.110" OAL for this round and at that seating depth the base of the bullet is at virtually the same depth inside the case as the HBRN mentioned above. So I think I'm gonna give it a whirl at my guessed at oal of 1.120" and drop the charge to 3.7 grains of titegroup and go from there (the longer oal because I have a gun that hates short hollow points).
 
Looking forward to the test results.

Do you have a chrono? I would love to see some numbers.
 
Rocky Mountain Reloading: Multi Purpose Round: (MPR) Max OAL 1.080 124 grain Jacketed Hollow Point Tite Group

SP01: 4.0 grain SP01: 4.0 grain 2nd string FPS 1085

Not your bullet but some data for reference
 
Here is the logic I used to come up with this recipe. Please tell me if it is lacking somehow or my math sucks. I used the Hodgdon website data 124gr HBRN TP as a base line. The berrys 124gr projectile is .612" in lendth and the load data gives a COAL 1.150", Berry's 121gr HBHP is .576" in length and Berrys gives a COAL of 1.110". With those measurements the 121gr leaves .004" more space inside the case than the 124gr does. I somewhat arbitrarily decided to lenghten my COAL to 1.120" and start with a 3.7gr charge of titegroup (where hodgdon's suggests 3.6gr) because of more case volume and the slightly lighter preojectile weight when compared to hodgdon's load data on the 124gr HBRN TP. If my reckoning and my comparison to the hodgdon load data is correct I should have quite a bit of room to work up. Thank you for the input!
 
On auto loading pistols I let the magazine determine the OAL length of a loaded cartridge. As most are rimless and head space on the mouth the bullets are not crimped. On my 9’s and 45’s it’s always worked for me.

As to loading data. I pick a starting load that matches a bullet weight, weight is the more important criteria, reduce that by 10% and go from there. I don’t rely on internet data, reloading manuals are the way to go. I use a cross section of them, IE, published by bullet manufacturers, published by powder manufacturers or generic, such as Lyman’s., I also have a few that are caliber specific.
 
So, that's exactly the problem. There isn't any data on this bullet. No manual I've consulted, no one on the danged internet, and not even Berry's themselves. Now I've arrived at a new problem and may have to scrap the whole thing. I loaded some dummy rounds to 1.110" as expressed on Berry's website, and did the kerplunk test. The bullet got into the rifling on three of the four barrels I dropped it into. So I seated a round a little deeper and found I had to have it down to 1.105" to clear the rifling in all of my four test barrels. So, I will have to figure out what would be a safe powder charge at that shorter OAL, somehow. The bottom of the bullet would about .005" deeper than my original guess, so I'm not sure how to proceed now.
 
Try a couple at 1.100 +/- OAL with 3.5 Grs of Titegroup and see what they do. If you have a chrono it will tell you. If not. Did they exit the gun? Did they eject? Did they eject with about the same energy as factory? Go from there.

You're over thinking it a little bit. :)
 
As far as charge weight it is generally acceptable to use data from a similar profile but slightly heavier bullet. In your case, 124gr data should be fine for a 121gr bullet
 
Some other numbers I have
Xtreme Bullets: 115 Grain Hollow Point Concave Base 1.093 Max OAL Titegroup

CZ SP01: 4.2 grains powder
FPS: 1108 1132 1129 1119 1122
Standard Deviation: 9.407
Average FPS: 1122
Power Factor: 129.03

Rocky Mountain Reloading Multi Purpose Round: (MPR) max OAL 1.06 124 grain Jacketed Hollow Point Tite Group

Shadow 2: 4.1 gr
FPS: 1100 1103 1106 1086

Hardest part of listing all my data is the formatting is lost when i open on my phone. Hence no avg fps,stand dev, or power factor listed
 
You have a good bit of data. Find your max oal which just clears the rifling. Shorten it up another 15 thousandths. Make sure you do this on your shortest lead barrel. From there start low and work up.
 
Thanks guys! Here's what I ended up doing. I didn't have a chrono today because I was indoors. I went with 1.105" OAL as it cleared the shortest leade I've got on hand (92sf). I started at 3.2gr of Titegroup and found it exited the barrel and ejected weakly, and it was so soft I barely felt it, so I went all the way to 3.6gr where things felt pretty good and the primers looked fine. I'm sure I can warm it up from there, which I'll do when I can get out the chrono. So my next question is... if I shortened up my OAL another 15 thousandths, what would that do to that 3.6gr charge weight, and how much should I back off with that much less case volume? Thanks for helping me keep my fingers and my teeth!
 
Here is an example of increments in .1 grain with sport pistol powder. After 10lbs of titegroup I'm moving to this powder. Many of their attributes seem similar.
This is for discussion purposes.
Shadow 2: 3.8 grain
Average FPS: 1031

Shadow 2: 3.9 grain
Average FPS: 1044

Shadow 2: 4.0 grain
Average FPS: 1059

Now. I've also got a RMR MPR 124 grain loaded at 1.080 that fit my wife's scorpion and her hk vp9. Loaded at 4.0 grain titegroup.

I've got the same bullet loaded at 1.060 at 4.1 grain.

The longer coal with 4.0 grain shot from a cz sp01 has nearly identical fps as the same bullet seated 20 thousands deeper WITH .1 grain more powder and a longer barrel.

The data was collected on different days.

I would like others to also chime in if they have seen similar data as I'm posting.

With all this said. If it were mine I would shorten the coal (if you have reason to) and maintain the 3.6 gr without issue.
Noting of course my data is from my guns.
 
length_of_pull_1 said:
if I shortened up my OAL another 15 thousandths, what would that do to that 3.6gr charge weight, and how much should I back off with that much less case volume?
Click to expand...
Hard to say, but yes, you will need to back off again. Maybe .2 tenths? You're off to a great start though.
 
OK. Thanks guys! I think I got what I wanted out of this little experiment. Hopefully I'll get on a chrono before I shoot 'em all up! I ended up at 1.100" OAL with 3.7gr of titegroup. Accuracy was good and function was perfect. After I bought this box of bullets I was quite intimidated by the lack of load data. In my past experience, I've used existing info and it was off to the races, but flying blind made me uncomfortable. I took all this advice and rolled it up into something that has worked almost perfectly. The last step will be the chrono, and maybe i'll warm it up some more, but I'm feeling like I could load up a thousand of these and be perfectly happy. Thanks again!
 
Welcome Aboard !

Don't get confused by the Hollow Base and extra bullet length....

• The Berry HBRN uses the same load data as any FMJ of the same weight.
• Yes, there will be minor differences in your results, but that's why we 1) begin our incremental testing at the Starting Load, and 2) keep a notebook of all our loads and results.
• Unless you're loading for competition or high powered self defense loads, you won't need a chrono. Instead, load for best accuracy and you'll most always be inside the "safe" load range. Very few guns or calibers deliver "best accuracy" at Max Load. Having a chrono is fun and supplies lots of info, but is far from a necessity. Think about it... people have been reloading since the 1880's, while consumer-grade chronos have only been generally available since about 1995.

Go slow, take lots of notes, think about what you're doing, and you'll be OK.
 
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