Varminterror
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Really sad you picked that particular scab... enduring thread derailment in 3... 2... 1...
10/22 v Model 60
- Thread starter James Fonteneaux
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Really sad you picked that particular scab... enduring thread derailment in 3... 2... 1...
Mr_Flintstone
Member
Something I'd be interested to find out is if there is a difference between the two camps (60 vs 10/22) on whether they use a scope or iron sights. I'm a minimalist myself, and choose to shoot bare stock rifles with irons, and I prefer the Marlin Model 60. It seems that the 10/22 would lend itself better to optics use, but it may not matter at all. What say you guys?
I try to make it clear I am not a fan of the 10/22.....over the years I have owned 4 of them....currently my boy has one and I have on....the one I still have is 1970's vintage and still box stock.
I will stand by the statement if you take 100 10-22's and 100 model 60's out of the box and shoot 100 rounds down them, the Marlin will run more reliable, and group better on average out of the box.
Now if you want to play pretend gun smith the 10-22 is for you, and the lovers of that platform are a pretty devoted lot jumping to their child's defense quicker then you can say jack robinson.
I will also stand by the statement that it is the most over rated platform on the planet....standing on its own it is just average.....now toss a catalog at it and you can make it into a silk purse if you so choose.
I don't think I hate the gun.....but I do think it is over hyped.
Like I said I am down to just one 10-22 under my roof, and it is in box stock shape.....I think I have 4-5 model 60's....some with glass some without. Over the years I have had rugers that would fit about every slot you would care to fill....the one my boy has (IIRC) has an old leupold on it...a 12 I think....he used it in small bore games and while not having a catalog tossed at it, has a few things done to it....trigger, barrel...."normal" 10-22 stuff.
In an out of the box type side by side, I like glass on the ruger and irons on the marlin....however I think at leas one model 60 I have has glass on it of some kind.....have not messed with them in a while....been playing with shotguns here lately.
MacAR
Member
The 60's stock design lends itself to be more user friendly with iron sights. The 10/22 carbine stock (for me at least) doesn't drop enough to be comfortable while shooting irons. My International has Williams peep sights on it, and they are easy to use. The stock sights, not so much. The Marlin sights are also easier to adjust, IMO; the Ruger not so much. I also think it behooves anyone who owns a 60 to scope it if it shoots well. The one I had was phenomenally accurate w/ CCI SV. It had a Tasco Pronghorn 3-9x40 on it, IIRC and would put every shot just about the same hole. None of my 10/22's could ever do that and they were box stock with exception of the mag releases, and that doesn't affect their shooting capability.
In reality, it comes down to personal preference. I am getting to the point now that my eyes won't cooperate with irons. I can shoot an aperture sight decently, but most of my rimfires wear scopes now. If I'm just plinking cans or shotgun hulls it doesn't really make a difference, heck I even prefer irons for faster target acquisition. But for hunting squirrels in tall trees, I want a scope. A little K 2.5 Weaver sure does make head shots easier, and I can pick them out when they're laid out on a limb. Again, just personal preference.
Mac
cdb1
Member
I don’t own a 10/22 but if I did it would absolutely have a scope. My Model 60 has a scope, a scope heaven forbid that cost as much as the rifle.
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James Fonteneaux
Member
My model 60s don't wear scopes, I've tried it in the past and it just doesn't fit me right. I have a Marlin XT22 in 22mag that does wear a scope and it's a very accurate, fun combination.
marvin02
Member
I own two Ruger 10/22s, all this discussion does is make me want to buy a Model 60 (or maybe a Model 70). Don't get me wrong, I really like the 10/22, just would like to see first hand what Model 60 faithful like so much.
Varminterror
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Yes.
These days, most 10/22’s come with a weaver rail and the receivers D&T’d. The Marlin is still sporting a 3/8” dovetail, which either requires an adapter or requires 3/8” rings, which often aren’t available in various sizes and heights to fit “standard,” non-rimfire scopes.
These 3/8” dovetail-to-Weaver or to-Picatinny adapters are out there, and there are 3/8” rings out there, but the parts come in the box for the 10/22, not the 60.
Choctaw
Member
The Winchester 94-.22 was also a great .22 lever action. All steel, first class walnut stocks, very reliable, and available in the XTR machine cut checkered version. I never see them any more.
Yes sir! I sold mine to a friend who really wanted it. That was in 1992 and I still want that rifle back. Beautiful guns very and accurate.
d2wing
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I have both and the Ruger is far more accurate, small sample. I shoot small sporter competitions, Guys commonly show up with both Rugers and Marlins as well as Savages and all kinds of rimfire rifles. The Rugers are noticeably better than the Marlins most of the time. I always shoot a CZ and beat both by a good margin usually but a stock Ruger almost tied me once. I have no idea where you that out of a hundred the Marlins are better because on the actual witnessed measured range competition it is clearly the opposite. Maybe true of current production but I guess 100 rifles is a small sample out of millions. I do know that either one varies a lot. They are plinkers. If a Marlin doesn't shoot that's it. If a Ruger doesn't shoot the upgrades are cheap and easy. Although if it were me I would just get a better rifle which I have done. I am sure willing to shoot against either one which I do. Neither one stock is all that impressive unless you get one of those rare old ones that shoots pretty well. Then you're still not that great.
This is like arguing over a Yugo or Geo being faster. Really. Either one is good at bouncing tin cans and shooting squirrels out of trees at 50 feet. Competitions are best left to your betters.
This is like arguing over a Yugo or Geo being faster. Really. Either one is good at bouncing tin cans and shooting squirrels out of trees at 50 feet. Competitions are best left to your betters.
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Mr_Flintstone
Member
Yugo or Geo. That’s kind of a condescending remark. Both have been out of business for 20+ years, and for good reason. Ford vs Chevy is a more proper comparison. Both still made. Both are common dependable cars. Both get you where your going. You just don’t compare them to a McLaren or a Ferrari.
Skylerbone
Member
Cheapskate
My real bet is your rings and scope cost more than your 60 did. I’m actually relieved on the hero part, my only protégés are tree sloths seeking direction on taking lazy to the next level. 
Cats. Love. Lazy.
For the inquiry I have only 5 .22s without optics including the Model 60, all others include dots or scopes including 4 10/22s with a 5th being spec’d for a home build (learning exercise for my daughter).
d2wing
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A Chevy Corvette will kick a Ferrari's butt at a fraction of the price. And a Mustang won the last IMSA race beating both Ferrari and McLaren in the GT class. But I see your point and grant you that if you consider them the base engine economy models.
d2wing
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Several companies have or do make copies of Ruger 10/22's. Bergara just came out with one. I have yet to see anyone make a copy of a model 60. I think one reason Rugers are so popular is that people can customize them just like AR's. If fact I think Ruger Mods started before AR's were common or after market parts for them were common. If I remember right Ruger Ranch rifles and 10/22's aftermarket tactical style stuff was out in the 70's. In the 60's favor it is more traditional and you can't spend so much on aftermarket. If I were to buy another semi-auto I'd look at something else anyway like maybe a CZ 512.
cdb1
Member
It has its flaws no doubt about it the buffer that will die over time, a "trigger group" that you can't fool with.....guess that is good and bad. For me when looking at the marlin vs the ruger....really the two "standard cheapo" 22 automatics (yea I know there are others, but these are the old men on the block) it is not what I like so much on the marlin but what I like so much better then the ruger.....all out of the box is how we need to look at this. I like the generally longer/larger capacity on the marlin (older ones)....some hate tube loading and I get all the reasons why people don't like having their fingers near the business end....but it does not bother me.....know what you are doing.....the magazine on the ruger I just hate. Now I like a rotary magazine like in a Savage 99 but in a rim fire that is generally more dirty then a center fire just another thing I am going to have to fool with....and for doG's sake why can't you put a good mag release on the stupid gun....the mags don't drop when you push it, you have to wiggle it out at best....If I am digging a mag out of my pocket quick it is not real easy to tell front from back....I have to look.
Those are the biggies....then after that it gets into the he said she said, beauty is in the eye, hearsay.....there might be other things but those are the biggies.
18 rounds I don't have to change to clear a stage....and in the informal games I play I can load that tube up where the rugers have to do a mag change....limited to stock guns....and sorry it is a stock gun class you don't want me playing around the muzzle end in the middle of a match so I can load up all 18....not my fault ole Bill 10 rounds is enough for anyone Ruger limited your baby as he did.
And again you trying to find a stock out of the box ruger.....really who does that....is not that ability to make all those changes one of the key draws to that rifle.
And I don't care if you say you only "polished" this or that (and that almost cost me a keyboard)....you are making a change to a stock rifle.....I once was lucky enough to talk to Bob Munden before he passed, and he was talking about his gunsmithing on single actions.....very few parts replaced, and for some customers zero parts replaced.....and the difference polishing can make is just amazing......if you ever saw him live or on TV he had a gold single action...he told me that had all stock parts in it, all he did was clean and polish.....the trigger broke like glass, smooth as anything....really a work of art.....I guess inside (did not see it) but it was sure pretty outside (not my cup of tea) but it sure was well done.
And this is what these threads always dive down to.....if anyone says anything bad about the good ole 1022 boy oh boy does the glee club sure come out in full force of them.
Lining these up against things like a CZ.....again out of the box is really apples to oranges....I have no doubt there are worked up 1022's that can shoot on par with _________ Pick your rifle even fancy german ones with names I can't spell.
But virgin, as the factory made the thing I will stand by my statement....I think marlin and their barrels are better on average over the ruger.
Lining these up against things like a CZ.....again out of the box is really apples to oranges....I have no doubt there are worked up 1022's that can shoot on par with _________ Pick your rifle even fancy german ones with names I can't spell.
But virgin, as the factory made the thing I will stand by my statement....I think marlin and their barrels are better on average over the ruger.
I don't think quite as rabid a bunch.
bassjam
Member
I own both. I've had two 10/22's and one Marlin 60. Out of 2 other buddies there's four more 10/22's and three more 60's and we've shot together quite a bit and done a lot of comparisons. When everything's stock each of the Marlin's shoot more accurately than any of the Ruger's, and for that reason we all put the scopes on our Marlin's for squirrel hunting. Some are just a little more accurate, some are much more accurate. When we take a .22 with irons rabbit hunting it's more a wash, I like my 10/22, one of my buddy's takes a Marlin, and the other takes a Remington Speedmaster.
As I said, out of that sample size the Marlins are always more accurate. On the flip side, Ruger's can go far longer without being cleaned and stay reliable. Once there's a lot of gunk in the action Marlins seem to start having trouble much sooner. Both my buddies have noticed the same with their Ruger's and Marlin's. You do have to keep the magazines clean with the Ruger's though. It takes a LOT of shooting to get them gritty, but every now and then they need sprayed out with solvent over a trash can, and in 20 years I've had to take them apart once for a more thorough cleaning.
I think a great deal of it depends on the ammo.....we all know 22 ammo is not all cut from the same cloth.
What I THINK happens is guns get broken in (whatever that means) with bottom shelf ammo.....then we migrate to perhaps at best 2-3 different flavors of 22 and call it a day. It takes a special kind of idiot (me) to walk out back with a dozen different types of 22 ranging from slow to fast, round nose, hollow, copper, lead....bla bla bla, and tries to see what works best in a given gun.
I always hated doing this at a public range....usually the stops and starts are at the wrong time, people looking over your shoulder, questions....just a pain in the butt.....now that I can walk out back and do this I can make a day of it and really enjoy myself.
I went off into the weeds with that as I was playing with different ammo I found them to be different in the junk they left behind....and it also varied by lot....for a while one of my marlins just loved golden bullet, but that changed a couple years ago....but man that stuff was filthy and hard on extraction....but it sure did put the little holes just where I wanted. Another would only eat CCI everything else looked like a shot gun pattern.....really picky eaters 22s can be.
Anyway on the rugers, some of that really dirty stuff you can feel in the mag after as little as 50 rounds....if you poke it with a knife you can feel the grit in there as you try to turn it....if it had issues I would hose it down then when I went back home I would take the mag down.....some of the "good" 22 I bet you could run 1000 rounds in it and never notice any gook in there.....the gun my kid has I doubt the mags have ever been apart....and some of them are OLD.
bassjam
Member
Ammo certainly plays a part. I'm lucky in that I can shoot .22's at my house on my own time, and I probably have around 20 different .22 ammo types I keep in stock to test each new .22 with. I normally find each will group really well with some sort of target ammo, but still very acceptable well with one type of bulk. In general, Golden Bullets were normally a top choice but dirty. Mini Mags are cleaner and give similar accuracy. Standard Velocity CCI's and Aguila do well too.
I like the standard velocity cci's....a bit more spendy but much more quiet.....I have air guns that are louder.
To me this stupid stuff is really fun for me.....I do it with rim fire and put a bunch in my wagon with a 22 and off I go.....I do the same with center fire, I will workup 5 of a given recipe and see what happens....then out of the winners of that short test I will work up a batch of 20 and see whats what.
To me this is where the fun is....I sit down there with a ton of garbage and just have myself a ball.
Not applicable to the rim fire topic, just all the garbage I haul around when I am playing with this stuff.
To me this stupid stuff is really fun for me.....I do it with rim fire and put a bunch in my wagon with a 22 and off I go.....I do the same with center fire, I will workup 5 of a given recipe and see what happens....then out of the winners of that short test I will work up a batch of 20 and see whats what.
To me this is where the fun is....I sit down there with a ton of garbage and just have myself a ball.
Not applicable to the rim fire topic, just all the garbage I haul around when I am playing with this stuff.
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