338 WinMag vs 30-06....?

The 338 is nice, good for bigger bodied animals. But you have a 375 for that. Do you reload for the 338? You good a smoking deal with that ew 70 tho so if it goes you should make some. If you do keep it and reload I have about 40 new Norma cases of interested.

Finn Aagaard, a noted African guide and gun writer, conducted some pretty extensive tests to determine which cartridges and bullets performed best on African game. He found that a 200 or 220 gr bullet fired from a 30-06 out penetrated everything tested under 375. That included 338 WM, 338-06, and 35 Whelen as well as many others. The only cartridges that out penetrated it were the magnums 375 caliber and up.

The Alaskan F&G department did a similar study to determine which cartridge they recommended for large bear protection. They reached the same conclusion recommending a 30-06 loaded with 200-220 gr bullets as the best option for most people. They found the 375 out performed it, but not by a huge margin and felt that if someone could handle the recoil it was a slightly better option. If not they recommended 30-06.

Phil Shoemaker is a current hunting and fishing guide in Alaska and contributes quite often on some other internet hunting forums. He has done some testing and feels the 30-06 loaded with 200 gr or heavier bullets is more than adequate for the biggest bear in Alaska. He often carries a 30-06 to back up his clients. Of course he also used a 9mm pistol loaded with 147 gr Buffalo Bore ammo to kill a brown bear that attacked one of his fishing clients a couple of years ago.

After seeing all of this I sold my 35 Whelen, 45-70 and 338-06. I've never owned a 338 WM, but figure that if I ever need something bigger than my 30-06 I'll go straight to a 375.

jmr40 said:

Finn Aagaard, a noted African guide and gun writer, conducted some pretty extensive tests to determine which cartridges and bullets performed best on African game. He found that a 200 or 220 gr bullet fired from a 30-06 out penetrated everything tested under 375. That included 338 WM, 338-06, and 35 Whelen as well as many others. The only cartridges that out penetrated it were the magnums 375 caliber and up.

The Alaskan F&G department did a similar study to determine which cartridge they recommended for large bear protection. They reached the same conclusion recommending a 30-06 loaded with 200-220 gr bullets as the best option for most people. They found the 375 out performed it, but not by a huge margin and felt that if someone could handle the recoil it was a slightly better option. If not they recommended 30-06.

Phil Shoemaker is a current hunting and fishing guide in Alaska and contributes quite often on some other internet hunting forums. He has done some testing and feels the 30-06 loaded with 200 gr or heavier bullets is more than adequate for the biggest bear in Alaska. He often carries a 30-06 to back up his clients. Of course he also used a 9mm pistol loaded with 147 gr Buffalo Bore ammo to kill a brown bear that attacked one of his fishing clients a couple of years ago.

After seeing all of this I sold my 35 Whelen, 45-70 and 338-06. I've never owned a 338 WM, but figure that if I ever need something bigger than my 30-06 I'll go straight to a 375.

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"Most experienced guides prefer that a hunter come to camp with a .270 or .30-06 rifle they can shoot well rather than a shiny new magnum that has been fired just enough to get sighted-in. If you are going to hunt brown bear on the Alaska Peninsula or Kodiak Island, a .30-06 loaded with 200- or 220-grain Nosler® or similar premium bullet will do the job with good shot placement. Only consider using a .300, .338 or larger magnum if you can shoot it as well as you can the .30-06."

^^^ Wow

I dropped a large Alaskan bull moose with a 30-06 with one shot. I do think a 338 loaded heavy would be a better choice on that size animal but not by a big margin. Elk and down I don't know that there's much advantage to a 338. By contrast something like a 300 or 7mm magnum would offer a little bit flatter shooting which could be an advantage depending on where you hunt. I don't have a ballistics chart in front of my but I assume a 338 doesn't shoot as flat as the 300/7mm mags because of the heavier bullet weights. Maybe the 338 is a bit of a 'tweener for you but that doesn't mean you can't find a spot for it - it's still a great rifle and cartridge.

If we're being practical here, a 30-06 is good for anything in North America. But what fun is being practical?

IdaD said:

If we're being practical here, a 30-06 is good for anything in North America. But what fun is being practical?

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Exactly! You can make arguments one or two rifles would probably suffice for your actual needs but so what? I don't know about y'all but I like rifles, and many rifles at that. I like having many different options in cartridges/chamberings. Merica'

I did some math on this a few years ago and concluded the 338 is essential a scaled up 30-06. They both shoot about the same sectional density and BC of bullet to the exact same speed. The 338 just does so while shooting a larger heavier bullet.

If you ask me that makes it more of an already great thing, but that of course comes at the price of recoil. Depending on your personal tolerance and how it fits you that may or may not matter. The only 338 win mag I ever shot was very mild shooting in my opinion

BigBore44 said:

But I’m betting the BC’s of the 338 are lacking compared to the ‘06.

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Double check some real bullet data before you lay any money against this bet, because you’ll lose any dollar you wager.

Going bigger in bullet diameter is an easy way to improve BC.

Examples:

.308” 178 ELD-x .547G1
.338” 230 ELD-x .616G1

.308” 175 Matchking .505G1
.308” 250 Matchking .587G1

Going to the “Super heavy for cartridge” end of the spectrum:

.308” 200 Matchking .715G1
.338” 300 Matchking .768G1

.308” 230 Hybrid .710G1
.338” 300 Hybrid .822G1

BigBore44 said:

Pros and cons of the 338 WinMag I suppose when compared comparably to 30-06.

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338wm Pro’s:

• It’s a true big game cartridge, not an overpowered deer cartridge which is capable of killing big game.

• .338’s typically come in factory platforms which are weight-suitable for the cartridge. Often .30-06’s are a bit lighter on the hoof, and recoil is that much more notable, despite the decrease in power factor.

338wm Con’s:

• It’s not a deer cartridge at all. It’ll kill deer just fine, several times over, but hat level of ammo/component cost, rifle weight, and recoil just don’t make sense for deer.

• Ammo cost and recoil.

30-06 Pro’s:

• Lower recoil, lower cost.

30-06 Cons:

• Although circumstantially capable, it’s not really ideal for big game, and can place unnecessary limitations on the shooter.

• Even the 30-06, after almost 30 years hunting and harvesting dozens of deer with one, really isn’t a deer hunting cartridge. The recoil and ammo cost are too much for deer, with no added security of clean harvest over more appropriate deer hunting cartridges. (This and the above: “Capable of all, master of none”).

Personally:

I think both are great “rifleman’s cartridges,” such if you have room in the stable and the ability to afford them, these should be on every rifleman’s hot list. Not because they are independently superior to anything else, but rather they are both flexible enough to allow a craftsman to experiment and learn a great deal about a great number of other, similar cartridges. They’re points in space which allow a broad spread of utility, overlapping many others, each other included, defining and closing-in gaps of interpolation for performance of a HUGE list of cartridges. A deer hunter has no business with either, but a big game hunter will be satisfied with both - moreso the 338.

Also, I feel “Two is one, and one is none.” Not because I believe rifles are so prone to failure such a backup is necessary - however comforting that confidence may be - but rather because I think knowledge isn’t knowledge if it only lives from one source. The two are different enough to be different, but similar enough to be used similarly, and a rifleman is better for having known both of these in similar circumstances.

someguy2800 said:

I did some math on this a few years ago and concluded the 338 is essential a scaled up 30-06. They both shoot about the same sectional density and BC of bullet to the exact same speed. The 338 just does so while shooting a larger heavier bullet.

If you ask me that makes it more of an already great thing, but that of course comes at the price of recoil. Depending on your personal tolerance and how it fits you that may or may not matter. The only 338 win mag I ever shot was very mild shooting in my opinion

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Sounds like something I'd LOVE, you are making me want one.

Then I sit back, calm down, and thing what do I NEED it for? I'm already 3 guns deep in to 30-06.

BigBore44 said:

So what does the 338 WinMag offer me that my 30-06 is lacking?

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A $550 rifle, that should have cost $1000?

Sounds good to me.

IdaD said:

If we're being practical here, a 30-06 is good for anything in North America. But what fun is being practical?

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Amen! I've had a lot of fun hunting with rifles chambered with cartridges that some folks would deem "impractical", including the .22 Hornet, .220 Swift, 7x64 Brenneke, .358 Winchester, .45-70 Government and, yes, the .338 Magnum. Not to worry: I have "regular" rifles too.

Or 7.62X54R

BigBore44 said:

I’ve got so many cartridges that overlap (pretty much all of them to some degree), what’s one more.

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Ha! Ha! Ha! Overlapping cartridges is nothing. I've posted before that my lovely wife has (had) two 7mm-08s. Our oldest daughter kind of laid claim to one of them, and our oldest grandson did the same to the other. So, my wife bought a slightly used 7mm Rem Mag and had it customized. But for mule deer, she shoots a 139gr Hdy right at 2900fps - about the same as either of her 7mm-08s.
And like most all of us do, my wife justifies her need for a 7mm Rem Mag by saying, "We can load it up for elk, or if I ever draw a moose tag."
It's different for me - I really needed my 308 Norma Mag because my 30-06 didn't kill mule deer and elk dead enough, and my 338 Win Mag killed them too dead.

It fits you that's enough reason to keep it. I'd like to pick one up for my all weather rifle.

BigBore44 said:

As many may know I bought a like new Winchester M70 Extreme Weather in 338 WinMag with aftermarket muzzle brake and 20 MOA rail for $550 last week. I’ll actually pick it up today. But I’m wondering if I should keep it or not. I also have a like new M70 Classic Sporter LT in 30-06. That one I’ll never consider getting rid of. It was my 18th birthday present from my father. So it stays.

So what does the 338 WinMag offer me that my 30-06 is lacking? I know the 338 shoots larger bullets, faster. But I’m betting the BC’s of the 338 are lacking compared to the ‘06. I’m looking for something more specific. Actually I don’t know what I’m looking for. Pros and cons of the 338 WinMag I suppose when compared comparably to 30-06. And I know ammo is more expensive for the 338. Twice the price actually.

Edit to add: I already have a belted magnum. A Remington Safari in 375 H&H.

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I have 8 rifles in 30 cal across, 30-30, 30-40 (a little fetish), 308 Win and 30-06. And two more in 8x57. What possible "need" have I for all these? None. Need doesn't come into it.

The 30-06 will do everything the 338 WinMag will do. With less recoil. BUT, if you like the M70 Extreme Weather, I'd certainly take the view that on that snowy day in elk season, I'd rather take that out than the M70 Classic Sporter. And having gotten it for $550, it's really rather rude not to keep it...

BigBore44 said:

As many may know I bought a like new Winchester M70 Extreme Weather in 338 WinMag with aftermarket muzzle brake and 20 MOA rail for $550 last week. I’ll actually pick it up today. But I’m wondering if I should keep it or not. I also have a like new M70 Classic Sporter LT in 30-06. That one I’ll never consider getting rid of. It was my 18th birthday present from my father. So it stays.

So what does the 338 WinMag offer me that my 30-06 is lacking? I know the 338 shoots larger bullets, faster. But I’m betting the BC’s of the 338 are lacking compared to the ‘06. I’m looking for something more specific. Actually I don’t know what I’m looking for. Pros and cons of the 338 WinMag I suppose when compared comparably to 30-06. And I know ammo is more expensive for the 338. Twice the price actually.

Edit to add: I already have a belted magnum. A Remington Safari in 375 H&H.

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For that price?

I wouldn't lose sight of the fact that it's a Winchester M70 EW.

Have one in .270 Win and like it a lot.

Me?

I'd down-load it with Nosler 210 gr. Partitions at ~ 2800 fps at the muzzle, and hunt the foul weather piss out of it, Deer-to-Moose.




GR

The M70 EW is a very nice rifle.

I hate muzzle brakes, but that's me I guess. The extreme level of hearing non-safety is a big issue for any rifle intended to protect yourself from bears etc. And the only situation I think the .338WM is exceptionally well suited to is as a big game/bear protection crossover rifle. if you're just hunting big game, it takes second fiddle to the 6.5mm, 7mm and possibly 300 mags. If you're just stopping dangerous game you want something much, much bigger. It's only when you're trying to get a decent trajectory out of your stopping rifle that the medium bore magnums start looking good.

Of course, that's not to say that it won't work just fine. It's a very capable rifle.

BigBore44 said:

Well I just picked it up 30 minutes ago. Winchester claims +\-7 lbs. I believe it. It’s light. But it fits me really well. Got a box of Superformance on the way. With the brake, I’m sure recoil won’t be bad. I’ll definitely have to reload for this thing though. Cheapest ammo I’ve found for it is $45/box with shipping (Academy). I know I can cut that in at least half if I shop around.

The BC’s I’m seeing posted are pretty impressive. I’ve got so many cartridges that overlap (pretty much all of them to some degree), what’s one more. So much for finding a steal and flipping a rifle for a little profit.

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I'd have to try casting for that since they said velocity is similar to the 06 but with heavier bullets.

When I was younger, I always thought 338 was a good do-all round, a bit heavy for deer, but perfect for larger game. Now that I'm nearing 60, I find I really don't need a magnum. My go to rifle is a mild recoul 6.5 x 55. That said, for what you paid, I would have bought that rifle in a heartbeat!

Llama Bob said:

I hate muzzle brakes, but that's me I guess.

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Savage-maybe others, offered a muzzle brake that can be turned "off" or "on" with a twist of the wrist. I like the option of being able to use the brake on a heavy recoiling rifle being fired from the bench, when I can double up on ear protection, and turning it off when hunting. It's like having your cake and eating it too.

The 338 is my go to rifle for Gemsbok to whitetail and everything in between. 210 gr Nos. partition for the heavier stuff and 200 gr. NBT for lighter critters. Same load behind both bullets shoot to same POI in my rifle @ 2970 fps. w/very similar trajectory to the 30-06 w/lighter bullets.

Regards,
hps