Blackthorn Walking Stick

Status
Not open for further replies.
American Hornbeam is tough stuff! That is the correct name for Ironwood in the US as you know. I doubt you need a permit to "harvest" a few straight pieces of ironwood.
A couple of items there. American hophornbeam is referred to as ironwood commonly. That’s not a typo on the spelling. It grows in small tree form typically but can reach a few inches in diameter.

A mature example has bark that looks like this, and yes, it’s extremely hard stuff. In fact the hardness and small diameter really limits its use in industrial applications.
C50C1B39-C174-4991-933F-4B67F0129FD1.jpeg

American hornbeam on the other hand is a different species that is commonly referred to as muscle wood. That common name refers to the appearance of the bark. It literally looks like muscle. It can reach small tree size but I’m not sure on the use of the wood.
3B5EBE9A-AD87-434F-A73B-F50138B2DF0F.jpeg 8D741CA4-FCA7-41CE-ABFB-DCA04F42A2A6.jpeg
Local names sometimes differ from accepted common names, so I’m not trying to pick nits. But I’m a forester, so I can’t help myself.

As far as harvesting hophornbeam without a permit, for me it’d be on National Forest, and due to its limited numbers it may be a species of local concern and no harvesting is permitted. Or it may be considered a miscellanies forest product, requiring a permit. Either way I need to check and be on the up and up about it because harvesting without a permit when one is needed is considered stealing forest resources. That’s not a good idea for me. You can trust me on that. ;)
 
I think dogwood would be a good choice if I can find a sapling with a straight enough section of trunk.
 
I think dogwood would be a good choice if I can find a sapling with a straight enough section of trunk.
Dogwoods are amazingly tough.

The above post of Hornbeams and muscle wood.... We always called it iron wood. I don't believe I've ever seen American hophornbeam in the flesh and probably would never be able to identify it. I used to be pretty good at identifying trees.
 
Dogwoods are amazingly tough.

The above post of Hornbeams and muscle wood.... We always called it iron wood. I don't believe I've ever seen American hophornbeam in the flesh and probably would never be able to identify it. I used to be pretty good at identifying trees.
Yep, local naming can make things confusing, and if you go a googling there's a lot of hard wooded species that people refer to as ironwood. Being in TN you've probably seen lots of hophornbeam, but it's not a particularly amazing tree and it doesn't get too big, so it's not like you'd be all excited about it. I've heard it said that pounding a nail into it is dang hard to do. I thought it'd make great fence posts, but it's too hard to work with apparently. At least according to my professor in college. Hence my interest in it.

I was going to ask what species of dogwood, but there's like 12 native species in North America. 17 if you count nonnative ornamentals. You guys in the SE part of the country have a big variety. I remember seeing redbud for the first time in spring. Think it was in Kentucky on the way to Knoxville, TN. It felt like the magical land of make believe.

Where I live we have no high quality hardwoods. We do get burr oak, but it's so twisted up it's good for nothing but firewood.
 
Last edited:
Hophornbeam makes a good bow and was pretty common up in northern Michigan. Crepe myrtle also seems to be a good bow wood if you can find some straight enough, and long enough, lengths of the trunk. We have dogwood all around us here and I believe it's the type called grey dogwood. Pretty white flowers in the Spring and the shoots were good for arrows. Tough stuff and makes a good walking stick as well.
 
Last edited:
Yep, local naming can make things confusing, and if you go a googling there's a lot of hard wooded species that people refer to as ironwood. Being in TN you've probably seen lots of hophornbeam, but it's not a particularly amazing tree and it doesn't get too big, so it's not like you'd be all excited about it. I've heard it said that pounding a nail into it is dang hard to do. I thought it'd make great fence posts, but it's too hard to work with apparently. At least according to my professor in college. Hence my interest in it.

I was going to ask what species of dogwood, but there's like 12 native species in North America. 17 if you count nonnative ornamentals. You guys in the SE part of the country have a big variety. I remember seeing redbud for the first time in spring. Think it was in Kentucky on the way to Knoxville, TN. It felt like the magical land of make believe.

Where I live we have no high quality hardwoods. We do get burr oak, but it's so twisted up it's good for nothing but firewood.
Looking at pictures on the web, I know I have seen hophornbean. Like you said, it is not a particularly exciting tree. My introduction to Red Bud was KY also. I saw a lot of it in KY and when I moved to TN, it was amazing in the spring along roadsides especially if it is mixed with blooming Dogwoods. There is an artist in Sevierville TN who does a lot of landscape stuff with dogwoods and red bud. I like his art work quite a lot. Have many prints and a few originals..

I was fairly good work friends with the company forester in KY. The company owned about 80,000 acres in a single block. It was a mining property primarily. When I worked for them, I have walked all over that property. He was an interesting fella who had managed the timber on that property his entire career. He was a WWII era fellow and about my Dad's age. Lots of rattle snakes. Saw a baby bobcat there on one of my forays into the woods. Thought it was a house cat at first (until I saw no long tail) and wondered how it got so far away from houses.... I got out of my truck.... very wild little thing and only about a foot long.

One property I spent a lot of time on (~1,000 acres) had a second generation stand of Yellow Popular. Majestic forest!! There were lots of native orchids there and the first place I shot an AR-15. Met my future wife shooting there. I know it has been logged since and in fact the loggers used some of the roads I built for access. The loggers essentially ruined it as far as I'm concerned.
 
Last edited:
I gotcha. I was thinking of an old navigation/surveying instrument that was also called a "Jacob's Staff", AKA "Cross-staff"; it was a precursor to the sextant.
View attachment 869457

Thinking about it now, it wouldn't make much sense for one of those to have a metal spike; I probably should have noticed that.

Just to keep fully on topic, I ordered a blackthorn shillelagh and staff from the links you posted, entirely because of this post, so... thanks for that, I guess? :)
Curious if you got your sticks yet and if you like them.
 
Curious if you got your sticks yet and if you like them.

Got the first one yesterday, and yeah, I do.

IMG_20191114_210129.jpg

That's the shillelagh from McCaffrey. Like you said, it's very stout and surprisingly lightweight for its apparent strength. I can flex it, but not much at all. I didn't measure at all before I ordered it, but it's just about the right length for me to use as a cane if I ever needed to.

I'll update when the hiking stick/staff comes in from Olde Shillelagh...
 
Got the first one yesterday, and yeah, I do.

View attachment 871573

That's the shillelagh from McCaffrey. Like you said, it's very stout and surprisingly lightweight for its apparent strength. I can flex it, but not much at all. I didn't measure at all before I ordered it, but it's just about the right length for me to use as a cane if I ever needed to.

I'll update when the hiking stick/staff comes in from Olde Shillelagh...
Good, I’m glad you’re happy with it.

Mine can be flexed also, but only the slightest amount.

I really liked the knob headed staves from Old Shillelagh quite a lot. I’ll be interested in your impressions. The funny thing is I find my self thinking about buying a few more sticks for different locations. It’s a handy item.
 
I really liked the knob headed staves from Old Shillelagh quite a lot. I’ll be interested in your impressions.

Got delivered this morning.
IMG_20191116_083907.jpg

That's nearly five and a half feet tall. It's "loaded", which means the head has been filled with lead to add weight. The main shaft is a bit thicker than the traditional shillelagh, while the curved portion is significantly thicker but has a much more "oval" cross-section rather than circular. There's a "knob" at the base of the curved section that's a nice shape and location to use as a hand rest.

The finish is much glossier than the McCaffrey shillelagh, but still seems plenty durable.

IMG_20191116_084142.jpg

This stick is every bit as good as the first one I got, and I'm really digging the unusual (for a blackthorn stick) shape. This one will be going on hikes with me for sure.

According to Olde Shillelagh's site, pieces of blackthorn that are long enough and straight enough to make staves are rare; my recommendation is if you see one you like, jump on it. It seems like they sell quickly, and I don't think you'll be disappointed.
 
Got delivered this morning.
View attachment 871851

That's nearly five and a half feet tall. It's "loaded", which means the head has been filled with lead to add weight. The main shaft is a bit thicker than the traditional shillelagh, while the curved portion is significantly thicker but has a much more "oval" cross-section rather than circular. There's a "knob" at the base of the curved section that's a nice shape and location to use as a hand rest.

The finish is much glossier than the McCaffrey shillelagh, but still seems plenty durable.

View attachment 871853

This stick is every bit as good as the first one I got, and I'm really digging the unusual (for a blackthorn stick) shape. This one will be going on hikes with me for sure.

According to Olde Shillelagh's site, pieces of blackthorn that are long enough and straight enough to make staves are rare; my recommendation is if you see one you like, jump on it. It seems like they sell quickly, and I don't think you'll be disappointed.
Thanks for sharing that. Yeah it looks like it’s got a lot of character. The rarity of long enough pieces to make long staves seems to be real and it might have a bit to do with where the two are located. They seem to tapper quickly and a number of McCaffery’s shillelaghs are clearly made from shafts and not trunks.

I’ll keep a watch and may pick one up. I used my Jacob staff last weekend and the extra length is a real benefit if on uneven terrain. The cane length seems better for trails.
 
I used my Jacob staff last weekend and the extra length is a real benefit if on uneven terrain.

Uneven ground is a problem for me, with neuropathy of the feet.

I like a 57-inch stick from Brazos Walking Sticks. I have hickory and oak.

Obvious deterrent value, by the way, without a frown.
 
Uneven ground is a problem for me, with neuropathy of the feet.

I like a 57-inch stick from Brazos Walking Sticks. I have hickory and oak.

Obvious deterrent value, by the way, without a frown.
My dad has that same issue with his feet. It sounds really painful at times and it unfortunately limits his mobility quite a bit.

I was walking down a skid trail in a timber sale area last weekend. The steel spike in the end was great because the soil was wet and greasy as hell. I started to slip, planted it in the ground, and it kept me upright. It’s only about 48 inches though.

Was walking here in the hills.

4709A9B5-7665-42E3-B7BF-584B3B96ABB7.jpeg
6FFCE0D6-2871-4A26-92A5-FB93E24919B8.jpeg
 
I was walking down a skid trail in a timber sale area last weekend. The steel spike in the end was great because the soil was wet and greasy as hell. I started to slip, planted it in the ground, and it kept me upright. It’s only about 48 inches though.
https://www.oldeshillelagh.com/staffs

A couple of the ones they have listed currently have "alpine spike" ends, but the ones that do aren't much longer than your Jacob staff (the longest one currently there is a full foot shorter than mine). Maybe if you emailed them, they'd be able to put a spike on a stick that's the length you want?
 
https://www.oldeshillelagh.com/staffs

A couple of the ones they have listed currently have "alpine spike" ends, but the ones that do aren't much longer than your Jacob staff (the longest one currently there is a full foot shorter than mine). Maybe if you emailed them, they'd be able to put a spike on a stick that's the length you want?
That seems like an option based on their web sight. I mean the staff I have now is fine, but is hideous compared to yours. Also as I age, off trail hill walking is likely to be replaced with more level ground trail walking. A longer staff is likely to provide better stability if a quick two handed grip is needed. There’s just more to grab onto.

I’m glad to know they make a good product. I’ll likely contact them when some bills get paid. I’m also interested in an oak staff like what Kleanbore mentioned.
 
Last edited:
My Cold Steel imitation poly blackthorn.

Allegedly it is a copy of a real one from Lynn Thompson's ( President of Cold Steel )private collection.
Like I said Up thread it is OK and I got training, but a real one has a soul poly can not duplicate.

That's cool, it looks better than I thought it would. That'd definitely be a good option for training, I think, if you didn't want to beat up your handmade stick...

What's it weigh?
 
Best part I got at a yard sale for $5.00!!!!

Can't beat that!

Cold Steel's web site lists the weight at 29 ounces; mine is 20. So the repro is about a half pound heavier. Which probably isn't enough to make a difference in practice. If I ever do get the chance to do any real training, I'll probably get one just for that...
 
I recommend sticking with what you're carrying since balance is as, if not more, important than weight when working with a stick.

Excellent point. A imbalance IMO, even for every day carry is one of the most over looked prerequisites for choosing a EDC. Most especially for back related injuries or preventing them. Many people will worry more about their tires being out of aliment rather than their own skeletal system.
Thanks all for the Post, trying to learn as much as possible. Want to get my Brother a nice cane for Christmas. He is a middle age Teacher, that fell in the rain last year and now practically Paralyzed. He can manage for short periods with a cane. However, a fighting cane would not work. Thinking a cane that will give him something personal to take a pride in and maybe a small pistol for self defense.

There could be a whole thread devoted on Balance and weight for choosing a firearm as well.

Ps some folks might remember my post of when a dog attacked mine and what I had to do to keep it from killing her. To the point of making a head Dive into the attacking dog. Fortunately a Police officer saw this and came running and was able to intervene with Mace, which by the way was not all that productive. I then started caring a Steel Baton on my walks. Ironically it was the one day that I did not carry my firearm since I had business in a area that would not allow it and I forget to get the gun when I came home to give her a walk.
 
Last edited by a moderator:
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top