Are high-end dies worth the money?

South Prairie Jim said:

Run out is normally introduced in the sizing phase.

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Not with the 30-30, it was definitely the seating phase. The Lee rifle dies have a floating seating stem that self-center the bullets, but they depend on pointed bullets for that to work. The RN or FN bullets typical with 30-30 were going in so crooked that it is visible immediately. But I was able to measure reduced runout between the Forster and Redding seating dies in my 223 loads - not much, but still there. I agree that the sizing operation can induce runout, though.

my Typical run out is around.001-.003 depending on the tools used to measure.
Interesting also, I haven’t noticed any difference in poi on paper when coloring Bullets and shooting them side by side.
I also firmly believe the best dies are the ones that closest fit (your )chamber promoting the minimum brass movement, all things being equal of course.

I did buy RCBS competition seating dies for the 3 rifle rounds I load. Mainly for convenience. I love the window on them and the easy adjustment.

So what is really high-end? Sometimes when what is supposed to be "high-end" it turns out that there is an even higher-end over in the next county...

I always pay more to get a higher quality item. The problem is that I can't always tell if an item is actually higher quality or just a higher price. But, that doesn't answer the OP's question.

I use mostly Lee dies for handgun ammo. There is a but, I like the Hornady sizing dies with the Titanium Nitride ring. They make sizing cases like the 45 ACP and 9mm almost effortless.

For rifles it gets a little more complicated. I like the RCBS full length sizing dies. I really like the Lee seating dies. I also like the Lyman Expander M die. I don't use a set of dies for rifle loading, I use the dies I've come to like. I do have 1 set of Hornady dies for the 45-70. They work well for me.

Probably depends on the quality of the shooter, I suspect for professionals it probably makes a big difference. For someone like me, I'm happy with my Lee dies, run over 25,000 bullets through them.

For my needs, no.
But everyone has different expectations and needs.
I have dies by Lee, RCBS and Hornady. They all work fine.
I'm not a match shooter. I deer hunt, and the 1" groups with my '06 and the 1.5" groups with the wife's .243 are just fine.
I'm not sure I could improve that with a die costing twice the money.

All of my dies are Lee except for one RCBS small base resizing die for .223. They all seem to do the job I need them to do.

Just a guess, but I expect the reason RCBS no longer puts the lead shot in the die lock ring is because of some nitwit California anti-lead environmental issue.

My first dies were the ones in a Lee Load-all. After that came several sets of RCBS dies. I jumped to Lyman for pistol dies for a while. Lately, the budget has me buying a few Lee die sets. Other than the lock rings, I am completely happy with them. The shell holders and powder dippers are a nice bonus.

I don't do the kind of shooting where I can see performance differences between the die sets I use. Because of that, convenience and price are what I look for.

I’ll probably get torched here but WTH.. Brass manufacturers probably like lower quality dies, i was buying new brass after 5-6 reloads while using Hornday and Forster F/L sizers that incorporated an expander button , stretching the necks and grossly undersized the cartridge , not to mention constant trimming.
Maybe I didn’t have them setup correctly hell anything is possible I suppose.

Anyone who claims an ass can’t tell the difference between cheap TP and good TP has only ever used one or the other, not both

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Either a tool is adequate and performs it function correctly or it does not.

Those little waxed square sheets they used to have in some schools I went to were not adequate and did not perform their function correctly, surprising given it was a very low tech function.
Good TP can only be appreciated when you have had to use the not good stuff. I have used a hand full of leaves that worked better than some of that cheap TP!


Mostly loading handgun and Lee dies work fine for my needs.
I can see where some of the feature more expensive dies offer might be nice.

If I shot a lot of rifle better dies would probably help and be worth the money.
For my .223 stuff out of a cheap AR or my Mini 14 Lee dies give me ammo that is good enough.

Dudedog said:

Mostly loading handgun and Lee dies work fine for my needs.

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The only gripe I have with Lee dies is the lock rings. I've replaced some with conventional lock rings.
I was just watching a FortuneCookie youtube video with a viewer's tip on using Lee dies: turn the lock ring upside down so the O-ring is on top. Why didn't I think of that?

If you spend the money to have a rifle built with a custom chamber reamer I think it makes sense to get the sizing die honed to match, which I have done using the services of Widden Gunworks.

Having said that, I made F T/R High Master sizing .308 cases with a standard Dillon die. At the end of the day it's all just a hobby that consumes disposable income. Spend it on what makes you happy

I only buy redding and I think it's worth the money. I started on budget gear but quickly upgraded to redding. I can feel the difference and I measure my runout and the difference is real- particularly when it comes to the use of bushing neck dies.

Bushing neck dies are the real deal, bumping headspace with precision shell holders, the whole process is improved on precision dies from high end manufacturers

sequins said:

I only buy redding and I think it's worth the money. I started on budget gear but quickly upgraded to redding. I can feel the difference and I measure my runout and the difference is real- particularly when it comes to the use of bushing neck dies.

Bushing neck dies are the real deal, bumping headspace with precision shell holders, the whole process is improved on precision dies from high end manufacturers

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I think our choices would be relative to loading handgun or rifle and lead, plated, or jacketed bullets. Everything has a context.

Nature Boy said:

At the end of the day it's all just a hobby that consumes disposable income. Spend it on what makes you happy

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I say amen to that.

To me it comes down to what you are loading for. Your grandfathers 30-30 or anold clapped out Colt does not need dies that cost as much as they do. Also if I can't shoot the difference why spend on "better" dies.

RealGun said:

I think our choices would be relative to loading handgun or rifle and lead, plated, or jacketed bullets. Everything has a context.

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Even loading handgun I really like the nicer dies. If I had to adjust my seating and crimp dies by feel alone every time I changed bullet profile or weight I would likely only load one load per caliber. With micrometer adjustment and high quality, repeatable dies I can easily load for 38spl in 125, 130, 135, 140, and 158 grains, then do the same in 357 magnum and go up to 180 grains. The data I gather is valuable because I can perfectly replicate these loads, so i have all sorts of data for my revolvers. For semi auto I do generally only load one bullet weight, but I still load different profiles between my RMR 147gn matchwinners, my MBC 124gn RN coated lead, and my gold dots, XTPs, HSTs, and whatever else is on sale or interesting.

Sure I can't shoot the difference in handguns nearly as readily as rifles but man I would not want to try to load all the cartridge combinations I load without micrometer dies for handgun- that's why I have one set of more affordable dies and Redding the rest of the way from there

whatnickname said:

“Is premium toilet paper worth the money?” The answer was: “Your a$$ ain’t gonna know the difference,”

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Well that’s a lie from the pit of hell. I don’t know if they’re worth it or not. I use RCBS and Lee exclusively. I’m not a precision competition shooter and never will be. But my loads have always given me fantastic consistency.

sequins said:

Even loading handgun I really like the nicer dies. If I had to adjust my seating and crimp dies by feel alone every time I changed bullet profile or weight I would likely only load one load per caliber. With micrometer adjustment and high quality, repeatable dies I can easily load for 38spl in 125, 130, 135, 140, and 158 grains, then do the same in 357 magnum and go up to 180 grains. The data I gather is valuable because I can perfectly replicate these loads, so i have all sorts of data for my revolvers. For semi auto I do generally only load one bullet weight, but I still load different profiles between my RMR 147gn matchwinners, my MBC 124gn RN coated lead, and my gold dots, XTPs, HSTs, and whatever else is on sale or interesting.

Sure I can't shoot the difference in handguns nearly as readily as rifles but man I would not want to try to load all the cartridge combinations I load without micrometer dies for handgun- that's why I have one set of more affordable dies and Redding the rest of the way from there

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I am trying to follow here. If brass is sorted into trim length ranges, preferably head stamp too, and the brand of shell holder doesn't change, the crimp is very consistent for a given bullet diameter. I have different die sets for lead and jacketed, simply because standard dies are too tight for nice results with a grunt larger lead. For different bullet weights and profiles, all I have to do for repeatability is make and save a dummy round for each to use for seating depth and testing point of resistance with any crimp changes. I have a gun that needs a shorter trim length, so I have a dummy round or two for those special load numbers.

I have a micrometer seating die for 41 Magnum because I couldn't find anything else at the time. I haven't used it in years, because if I buy 500 bullets, I have used a dummy round to set up and won't revisit the die adjustments for the duration. The micrometer is set for XTPs that I rarely have to replenish, so it effectively is a die that cost way more than necessary, given die choices for the cartridge.

You're absolutely right that it's not strictly necessary and high quality ammo was loaded for a lot longer than I've been around before the micros came along. I imagine one could load several rounds with the money they save by preferring the traditional die styles from a high quality budget manufacturer too.

Nonetheless I find the micrometers to be a little easier to perfectly repeat and get adjusted, and I thought I'd share a little of the enthusiasm I have for higher end dies, in my case Redding. I really enjoy their features and I like using them!