ERPOs in action, WA - no details, no charges ...

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Your unwillingness to imagine yourself up against the wall is exactly the kind of thinking that enables abuses. You won't feel the noose until they are gone but you will feel it all the same.

Yep, the old "slippery slope" argument. i'm 80 years old and spent a career in the US Army. i don't belong to hate groups who advocate murder nor do i advocate for the rights of Hitler admiring scumbags busted while belonging to groups advocating murder.

Fence sitting voters who will make a difference in future elections don't care about your "slippery slope".

The subject of this thread is the leader of Atomwaffen in Washington state. He was banned from Canada for life.

https://www.king5.com/article/news/...show/281-3bce0d9e-f152-4f91-b1c1-90f9bbf98e57

Who funds these scummy outfits?
 
This is interesting and germane:

"On the courtroom recording, Judge Rothrock admits that she’s struggling with the decision on whether to take away Cole’s second amendment right to bear firearms. The ERPO would prevent him from possessing guns for one year, and prosecutors could come back after that time and ask that it be renewed.

“Frankly, I was expecting something in our submission, some sort of specific statements he made, rather than evidence of group ideology. So, that’s what I’m struggling with,” Judge Rothrock told King County Deputy Prosecutor Kim Wyatt."

Contrast that with:
"King County Prosecutor Dan Satterberg, whose deputy prosecutor Kim Wyatt argued the ERPO case before the judge, said the order to surrender guns is the right tool when law enforcement does not have enough evidence to file a criminal charge.

“In this case, the joint terrorism task force had assessed Mr. Cole and said he was somebody who was doing more than thinking and talking about his extremist, violent beliefs, but that he was actually acting on it,” Satterberg said."

So which is it - was he just in a sleazebag, loser group of haters, or was he on the cusp of a rampage?

Ugh. This definitely sounds questionable.
 
This is interesting and germane:

"On the courtroom recording, Judge Rothrock admits that she’s struggling with the decision on whether to take away Cole’s second amendment right to bear firearms. The ERPO would prevent him from possessing guns for one year, and prosecutors could come back after that time and ask that it be renewed.

“Frankly, I was expecting something in our submission, some sort of specific statements he made, rather than evidence of group ideology. So, that’s what I’m struggling with,” Judge Rothrock told King County Deputy Prosecutor Kim Wyatt."

Contrast that with:
"King County Prosecutor Dan Satterberg, whose deputy prosecutor Kim Wyatt argued the ERPO case before the judge, said the order to surrender guns is the right tool when law enforcement does not have enough evidence to file a criminal charge.

“In this case, the joint terrorism task force had assessed Mr. Cole and said he was somebody who was doing more than thinking and talking about his extremist, violent beliefs, but that he was actually acting on it,” Satterberg said."

So which is it - was he just in a sleazebag, loser group of haters, or was he on the cusp of a rampage?

Ugh. This definitely sounds questionable.

Questionable? That's terrifying.

They admit there is nothing to justify stealing his constitutional right except for ideology determined to be bad. Then he gets, in a year, to try to prove his innocence (as opposed to the other way around, the foundation of our entire legal system) from badwrongthink ideology.

As it's been pointed out, veterans, Christians, constitutionalists, right leaning thinkers, gun owners/advocates and other perfectly harmless groups have been accused of being terrorist or potential terrorist groups in the past 10 years alone.

Terrible precident to start, and one heck of an icy slope when you see one side of the political spectrum already trying to criminalize free speech, and now apparently free thought, despicable as this particular case is
 
Our legal system is based in part on precedence. Those who want to undermine our Constitution can start by taking rights away from scum like the person in this article. After all, who cares if a Nazi's rights are trampled? The problem is that we have now established precedence for taking guns away from people who's speech we disagree with. I'm a gun owning, Bible thumping conservative who's beliefs are just as obscene to the far left as this Nazi's beliefs are to me. I am not defending his rights. I'm ultimately defending mine, as if his guns can be taken away for offensive speech alone, a left leaning administration can use that precedence to take mine.
 
"First they came for the socialists, and I did not speak out—because I was not a socialist.

Then they came for the trade unionists, and I did not speak out— because I was not a trade unionist.

Then they came for the Jews, and I did not speak out—because I was not a Jew.

Then they came for me—and there was no one left to speak for me."

Martin Niemöller
 
Yes, but that's not what happened here. Arrest, for reasonable suspicion, and potential charging with a crime, IS due process.

Abrogation of rights WITHOUT any apparent plans to either charge or desist the abrogation is NOT due process.

. . . then they would have (definitely should have) arrested and charged him. Based on the actions to date, it would seem that the state does not believe he committed a crime. This is the essence of arbitrary disenfranchisement.
No, you cannot "arrest" someone using a reasonable suspicion std. nor is that the standard for search warrants. Both require probable cause which is a higher evidentiary std in the 4th Amendment.

What reasonable suspicion allows is a Terry stop by law enforcement--e.g. a brief investigatory stop in public which might include frisking for officer safety.
 
Yep, the old "slippery slope" argument. i'm 80 years old and spent a career in the US Army. i don't belong to hate groups who advocate murder nor do i advocate for the rights of Hitler admiring scumbags busted while belonging to groups advocating murder.

Fence sitting voters who will make a difference in future elections don't care about your "slippery slope".

The subject of this thread is the leader of Atomwaffen in Washington state. He was banned from Canada for life.

https://www.king5.com/article/news/...show/281-3bce0d9e-f152-4f91-b1c1-90f9bbf98e57

Who funds these scummy outfits?

Well, a fair number of them are actually paid FBI informants so you might just say, you and I fund them partially.
 
Anyone who does not find himself frightened by this does not understand history.

Nazi ideology is disgusting. Those who espouse it are despicable. I hate Nazis. My grandmother's maiden name was Grenemyer; I very well may have had distant relatives murdered by them. I've visited Dachau. Twice. The whole air in that place is spooky. The exhibits are horrifying.

But people have the right to be despicable. They have the right to be offensive. They have the right to hate. The rest of us do not have the right to silence them.

We are veering ever closer to thoughtcrime. "Progressives" know exactly what they're doing. We will start out infringing on the rights of outlying groups who pretty much everyone, liberal and conservative, Christian and atheist, can all agree are evil. Then we will criminalize their opinions and start imprisoning them.

And it will go from there....
 
i don't have any problem with the seizure of firearms from this lobotomized idiot. Atomwaffen members have murdered at least five folks in the USA.

This is short sighted BS. If you can't see the precedence being set here and connect it with the anti-gun rhetoric being spread by prominent politicians about gun owners in general and see their attempts at painting all gun owners as dangerous and the NRA as a terrorist organization, you are just plain ignorant or a complete FUD. You may be old enough that you won't live to see the repercussions of this new tactic of disarming law abiding citizens without due process, but me and my children will have to live with this.

This is the kind of nonsense FUD thought process that sets the stage for more sweeping seizures from law abiding gun owners who are guilty of nothing more than owning firearms and disagreeing with the ideology of anti gun politicians.
 
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Look at the Rico laws that are abused all the time. This is unconstitutional and should be struck down. We have seen all the unsupported accusations that have been spread around by the MSM and Dem pols. These are dangerous times for freedom.
 
So the people who live where they have allowed these redflag laws to pass need to take them to court because they are unconstitutional.
 
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