Supreme court allows Remington to be sued by Sandy Hook victims

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Does this mean I can sue Ford for when I got T-boned at an intersection by a distracted driver? Utter ridiculousness. So much for Trump padding the courts with pro-2A judges.

Absolutely. Any of those ads on TV that show the cars skidding obviously demonstrate unsafe driving methods.
 
From what I've read
" Lawyers for the victims sued Remington contending that the company marketed rifles by extolling the militaristic qualities of the rifle and reinforcing the image of a combat weapon."
I've always have, and still do question this marketing. Sooo many ads with professionals (LEO) or "Operators".

They may advertise smarter now but it doesn't matter if I'm correct.

His mother bought the gun, not him so the point is moot I'd think.
 
Correct me if I am wrong, but I thought he killed his mom and stole her rifle. It would seem that when this actually goes to trial they will have a hard time proving that he chose the rifle due to an advertisement, when it was his mom’s rifle.
 
Lanza certainly didn't see that ad and decide to commit the heinous act he did. Are video game producers/distributors being sued for encouraging violence (legit question)?
 
Lanza certainly didn't see that ad and decide to commit the heinous act he did. Are video game producers/distributors being sued for encouraging violence (legit question)?
That is ultimately why I suspect that this lawsuit will fail but the intent for the plaintiffs was to get into Remington's and its advertising agencies files to root around. Most of these folks are financed by lawfare networks that live in court and are funded by the wealthy through grants, foundations, etc.

Given that someone like you rightfully points out that other products might be on the hook will cause exposure to movies, video games, music, etc. gives a strong 1st Amendment argument at the trial level, let alone appellate review. Remington's lawyers apparently made lousy arguments on this point before the CT Supreme Court with only one CA Sup. Ct. case citation.
 
Lanza certainly didn't see that ad and decide to commit the heinous act he did. Are video game producers/distributors being sued for encouraging violence (legit question)?
No. And they likely won’t be. But this case has so many holes in it a second rate attorney will tear it apart. Our members already have. But that doesn’t mean the right jury won’t convict.
 
IMO, it will wind up back in SCOTUS but this time they will kill it. In doing so their findings will be that such a case would cause abuse of other industries. All things made are sold on a good faith premise. One buys a car in good faith it will be operated within the safety concerns and laws. Once the purchase is final it is the responsibility of the purchaser. This ruling will also cause a financial conundrum on those filing suit to such a degree as to deter further suit attempts.
 
They may have a different perspective
A different perspective on what? On whether Adam Lanza ever saw that ad? On whether his mother was persuaded to buy the gun after seeing it? On whether the ad promotes the murder of children?

I doubt it.

I think SCOTUS is probably trying to allow a jury to do the right thing before they step in and fix this.
 
It's not necessary to lose a loved one to commiserate with those who have. We are not rooting for one team or another. One of many troubling aspects of this case is the fishing expedition for communications and other things that may be used to give Remington a bloody nose or reason to settle.

The actual issues at this stage are narrowly drawn and are a long way from resolution. All the news coverage does is open old wounds and stir the pot.
 
Since it is decidedly outside of the remedies sought in the past as 'Product Liability" suits.... this will likely set a precedent for the subjective opinion of what products are and are NOT *good for us*.

I see a tragedy-borne opportunity which has been scurrilously foisted on the victims by bottom-feeding attorneys intent on a quick settlement pay-day as it is unlikely - even in Civil Court - to be successful.

I hope Remington has the balls to address this on two fronts, regardless the potential public perception.

1) See it through to the bitter end with NO settlement.

2) COUNTER-SUE!

Every single manufacturer of every single product should be supporting Remington on this end-run of the Protection of Lawful Commerce in Arms Act (PLCAA). Because, next up; motorcycles, 4WDs, quads (remember Honda's nightmare with ATCs?), commercially sold dogs, etc....



Todd.




 
Am I correct that the original lawsuit has not even gone to trial?

If so, could that, in and of itself, still take years?
 
If they say that the gun was chosen because of an ad, it has zero standing in fact because the gun was not chosen or purchased by the perpetrator, but was rather stolen by the perpetrator and is simply a stolen item that was possessed by happenstance. Lanzas mothers family could potentially follow that to a lawsuit saying that the ad made him want to acquire that particular make/model because of the ad, and subsequently targetting her to get it, but even that is a stretch.
 
Sequens said "citing an exemption in the federal law"
what exactly is the law that protects manufacturers from being sued??? What is the exemption?
 
Sorry guys’
I just struggle with these Shooting’s and senseless loss of life, my heart goes out to the families and first responders whose life’s are changed forever. y’all go back to typing & talking about legal positions I’ll shut up and log out.
J
 
So let’s see... I get to sue everyone that makes a product on my car because I use it irresponsibility and get a speeding ticket. While we are at it, the band on the radio, the radio station, the sunglass manufacturer, the speed limit sign manufacturer and the Federal, State and Local Governments that built the roads well enough to go that fast and set arbitrary speed limits...I’m sure I left some out.

YouTube, Google and pretty much any media outlet is also responsible too. Remington didn’t make that advertisement, an ad agency did, other companies accepted money to run them where they were distributed (another actor), another made the ink and yet another printed, someone else sold the magazines they were in.

Everyone has to sensationalize things these days and omit the important details.

Whats the exemption they cited, in order to proceed? That’s really the only thing that matters, as far as not being shielded.
 
As is usual with these sorts of complex cases, a whole lot of folks don't understand what's going on -- in part because they rely on secondary sources, like the news media, for information, and in part because the natural course of litigation is non-intuitive and outside the ordinary scope of knowledge of even generally well educated persons.

SCOTUS did not rule on the merits, i. e., it did not conclude that the plaintiffs' claim actually falls within a PLCAA exception. Remington can still, at an appropriate, later stage of the litigation, again seek a federal court ruling that the underlying suit is barred by the PLCAA.

But Remington had taken what is called an interlocutory appeal, an appeal from a non-dispositive ruling. Interlocutory appeals tend to be disfavored. So it's perhaps not a surprise that SCOTUS declined to hear it.

We've had a number of in depth discussion of this case:



I outlined the course of this litigation in this post in the second thread:Now we need to get technical.
This is all about a highly technical point of civil procedure (which is one reason the press will get it wrong). This is still in a very preliminary stage, and the plaintiffs haven't won yet. (This lawsuit was previously discussed at length in this thread. I outline very basic civil litigation procedure in this post.)

  1. The plaintiffs appealed the trial courts dismissal of their case on the defendant's motion to strike (the Connecticut name for what is elsewhere called a motion to dismiss or a demurrer).

  2. Making such a motion is one of the very first thing a defendant does when sued. Essentially nothing else has gone on yet.
    • The plaintiff filed the complaint -- the document that say you [the defendant] owe me money and these are the facts that support my claim.

    • The defendant files his motion to strike/motion to dismiss/demurrer which basically says that even if every fact you allege is true as a matter of law you have no valid claim against me.

  3. So the plaintiffs filed the suit alleging various facts. At this stage those facts are assumed to be true. The defendants filed a motion saying the even if those facts are true, the plaintiffs have no valid claim. The trial court agreed and dismissed the plaintiffs' lawsuit. The plaintiffs appealed.

  4. On appeal the Connecticut Supreme Court (CSC) mostly agreed with the trial court. The CSC wrote in the opinion:
    ....For the reasons set forth in this opinion, we agree with the defendants that most of the plaintiffs’ claims and legal theories are precluded by established Connecticut law and/or PLCAA. For example, we expressly reject the plaintiffs’ theory that, merely by selling semiautomatic rifles—which were legal at the time—to the civilian population, the defendants became responsible for any crimes committed with those weapons....

  5. However, the CSC disagreed with the trial court on one point. The CSC writes:
    ....The plaintiffs have offered one narrow legal theory, however, that is recognized under established Connecticut law. Specifically, they allege that the defendants knowingly marketed, advertised, and promoted the XM15-E2S for civilians to use to carry out offensive, military style combat missions against their perceived enemies. Such use of the XM15-E2S, or any weapon for that matter, would be illegal, and Connecticut law does not permit advertisements that promote or encourage violent, criminal behavior. Following a scrupulous review of the text and legislative history of PLCAA, we also conclude that Congress has not clearly manifested an intent to extinguish the traditional authority of our legislature and our courts to protect the people of Connecticut from the pernicious practices alleged in the present case. The regulation of advertising that threatens the public’s health, safety, and morals has long been considered a core exercise of the states’ police powers. Accordingly, on the basis of that limited theory, we conclude that the plaintiffs have pleaded allegations sufficient to survive a motion to strike and are entitled to have the opportunity to prove their wrongful marketing allegations. We affirm the trial court’s judgment insofar as that court struck the plaintiffs’ claims predicated on all other legal theories.....

  6. So --
    • The CSC did not find that anything the plaintiffs claimed was true. The CSC merely, as required, assumed those facts were true in order to then decide the open questions of law.

    • The CSC determined that most of the plaintiffs claims were not valid, legal claims; and those claims have been decided in favor of the defendants.

    • The CSC is allowing the lawsuit to go forward on the one legal theory of liability remaining. That legal theory is based on claimed liability under a Connecticut consumer protection law. In doing so the CSC also decides that the claim under the particular state law was not precluded by the PLCAA.

  7. The plaintiffs will still need to prove that the facts alleged to support their last viable theory of liability are true.

  8. Also, the defendants can appeal to the federal courts of whether, as found by the CSC, a suit based on the particular state law is not precluded by the PLCAA.


There's still a lot of waiting and seeing to be done as the lawsuit grind through the process.
In effect, this is just "in the ordinary course of business." Taking an appeal to SCOTUS was worth a try. But SCOTUS declining to step in right now isn't necessarily a surprise.
 
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Thanks for adding some additional context on the specifics Frank. I'm very interested in the arc and outcome of this case.
 
The fact that this case going forward is a good thing. The tortured logic that must be used to argue this case against Remington will ultimately rest on personal responsibility and mental health. To say that Remington is at fault will open wide any claim to any product that if used as marketed (which does not have to be factual) are liable for damages. How many car, truck, motorcycle, ginsu knife manufactures will be held to the same standard?
 
Had to make sure this was in General Discussions and not Legal before I continue.

Sorry guys’
I just struggle with these Shooting’s and senseless loss of life, my heart goes out to the families and first responders whose life’s are changed forever.
J

Jim, I would think there is not one member on this board that wouldn't agree with the statement you made above. It is senseless, and our hearts are there with the families and secondary responders. This goes without saying, however the freedoms afforded by the constitution never come without a cost. I'm not trying to be hard on you with this post Jim, just giving perspective, I hope you don't take it that way.

The 2nd Amendment is crucial to the upholding of the constitution, just look at where the colonists would have been had they not had private weapons to mount a revolution against the British, or look to recent history Venezuela that banned private gun ownership whose citizenry now regret allowing to happen (https://dailycaller.com/2019/04/30/venezuela-gun-ban-regret-maduro/), or to the Jews & Pols in Hitler's reign (https://www.nationalreview.com/2013/12/how-nazis-used-gun-control-stephen-p-halbrook/), or to Russian intellectuals during the push west 'Road of Bones' (https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/wo...4085/Road-of-Bones-where-slaves-perished.html), Russians under Stalin and Communism (https://www.thegatewaypundit.com/20...tremendous-success-for-socialist-state-video/)

To think that these things above which are only an abbreviation as to the harm that the dissolution of public freedoms can lead to cannot happen in American is fool hardy. I'm not saying you don't feel the same way; sometimes we just need to be reminded what is at stake when tragedy happens. Our freedoms we enjoy in this country are always at a cost. Whether it be from the blood of patriots who have served their country with their blood, limbs, mental state or even their lives. Or the cost of persons utilizing their freedom of speech to denigrate others, promote hate and discord; or undermine the sovereignty of the nation. All freedoms come at a cost. I believe that pro-2A gun owners have a huge desire to alleviate some of the problems that are occurring with the use of firearms, but solutions cannot lead to the dissolution of the 2nd Amendment. My heart goes out to those men, women and children that were caught in the crosshairs of evil; but the heart of man is deceitful and wicked so says the Lord, who can understand it? We will always have evil in different forms and we should always fight against it.


“Guard with jealous attention the public liberty. Suspect everyone who approaches that jewel. Unfortunately, nothing will preserve it but downright force. Whenever you give up that force, you are inevitably ruined.” Patrick Henry

“Before a standing army can rule, the people must be disarmed; as they are in almost every kingdom of Europe. The supreme power in America cannot enforce unjust laws by the sword; because the whole body of the people are armed, and constitute a force superior to any bands of regular troops that can be, on any pretense, raised in the United States.” Noah Webster


The Founding Fathers knew we would be faced with such events which is why they were abundantly clear in the Constitution and Bill of Rights. If we take personal responsibility out of the equation and place the blame on manufacturers of objects, to what end does this road take us? That is the position this thread topic is discussing, not whether or not people sympathize or mourn with those effected by the tragedies. I'm sorry that loved ones were lost in those tragedies but suing a bystander company with no involvement in the act for monetary gain in the shadow of the evil that was perpetrated is something else. When it comes down to it, the people who are suing I feel are not pro-2A (or are being led astray by emotions or an activist group) and we need to recognize this action as such and try and provide guidance to just what is at stake when we start legislating freedoms away.



 
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Heck, you can sue anybody for anything these days. So this is no surprise. Sounds like some lawyer is just going after a quick settlement. It always comes down to the money. That said, they should be sued for having one of the sleaziest ads I have ever seen. They had to have one very stupid Marketing MGR to approve that disgusting, foolish pathetic ad.

Car manufacturers advertise high performance cars as the car that will make you the man. 0 to 60 performance and taking curves like it's on rails, top end speed are normal claims to fame.
If someone does harm to another because of high speed driving negligence, will the car manufacturer be held responsible. I think not.
 
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