Changing Demand

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Steve S.

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I have had a very nice Kimber 84M with exceptional wood/ Leupold scope on consignment at my LGS since mid-August; I had a very nice price on the thing - priced to sell - like new condition - shoots great with handloads - LGS owner told me “no serious buyers”. Firearms deer season starts Saturday - demand for deer rifles will disappear so I brought it back home. He said “it was not the price, it is simply not what people want anymore.”
In turn, I was told that rifles (in his shop) have slowed and remaining demand has turned to the less expensive “combo rifles” (rifle, scope. mounts) in the $250 to $400 range - demand for the higher-end/ traditional stuff has slowed dramatically - cheaper and plastic now rule.
I guess I will need to change with the times but, I am not drawn to the new demand - I just have to accept the market right now as it is and keep shooting my traditional stuff.
 
I don’t believe that is necessarily the case. There are many people who enjoy nice rifles. But the cheap guns do perform and at a price that you won’t freak out if it falls over after sliding off the tree you leaned it against.

For the average, or new deer hunter, why drop a grand on a rifle when you can spend $400 on the gun/scope, $100 for ammo, $250 on camo and $250 boots? People are value conscious these days.

Something else to consider is not selling the gun with the glass on it. Especially if it’s really nice glass.

I’m curious what your “priced to sell” price was....
 
The demand for your rifle is there, it is just a smaller market and you're trying to sell it to the wrong people. If you're willing to post good quality pics and place an ad in the classified section here and on other gun forums you'll find a buyer. Of course you have to deal with the hassle of shipping and shipping costs. But I'd price the rifle so that the buyer at least splits shipping costs if not pay all of it. Anytime after the 1st of the year after hunting season would be a good time. Especially around the end of February when people start getting tax refunds.

I stopped hunting with wood in 1983, but I'm not crazy about the cheap plastic stocks either. My favorite rifles have high end McMillan stocks and my Kimber 308 has their factory synthetic which is similar quality to McMillan.

And you'll do a lot better selling the scope separately.
 
I got out of the woods several decades ago after sitting around the campfire listening to the tales of "Sound Shots".
 
Trends change a lot in the gun world. One out of many I can think of is, do you remember when a .380 auto was thought of as being to weak to be any kind of serious ccw. Now they are becoming the thing to have. That's, just one example of many. Go with what you know and like, not what others think or tell you.
 
I guess I got a bit wordy and danced on the edge of the subject but...,

There is probably a term for it but once a certain type of consumer item reaches a certain price, demand starts dropping dramatically.

Various factors come into play but when there are comparable items that perform similarly at much lower prices then the price threshold for higher end items drops.

It is regional as well as trendy. For instance, in my area, that rifle “priced to sell” would not hang around long and pre owned economy models tend to sit. New economical models still sell fine though, oddly.

Related is the price threshold that I call the “hem haw threshold”. This is the threshold where instead of someone maybe dickering a bit but still handing over cash for the sale. This generally happens quickly after an item is put up for sale.

When an item is above the hem haw price then you are inundated with talkers, BSers, time wasters, trade offers, low balls, etc. I don’t really get why this does not happen when the price is lower but I definitely understand it when the price is higher. What is sort of fun is that say you post an item for sale. It’s a nice item and is priced above the hem haw threshold. You say in the ad that you will not take trades. Well, someone or everyone is going to contact you about a trade anyway. With few exceptions, items above the hem haw level tend to take longer to sell.

All this is probably not game changing (hehe) news to you all but as it pertains to the OP, I am positive your rifle is over the hem haw threshold (since my own estimate of this threshold is $5-600).

Because of this, your already looking down the barrel of a long and tough sale.

Next, “priced to sell” is very relative and highly geographical. Is it priced to sell to the guy who is going to the gun store to buy a Savage Axis? Obviously not. Is it priced to sell at that particular store? In other words, does this seller have any other higher end rifles for sale?

For me where I am, I will put a gun on consignment and I leave it there until it sells with few exceptions. I have decided I don’t want it and I will sell it for what the market dictates. If it doesn’t sell after a few months then I lower the price for a few months and on and on until it sells.
 
Wood and blued steel is not the object of desire for many these days, but that makes it more affordable for folks like me. I don't have any problem with the excellent value of new production, but I grew up with the old style and I am old enough to appreciate the difference. I may know that an ancient Krag does not make the optimal hunting rifle, but the inletting and metal work of a bygone era makes me smile all the same.

OP, it is a matter of marketing to the right demographic. A little focused exposure to old timers in that 50 to 70 yr old range may be more productive. And if we're picky about our rifles, we likely have our own ideas on appropriate glass as well.
 
It's been my observation that the lag of wages growth in the last ten years or so, combined with the increase in living costs and homes has left many young families just getting by. I have two employees I can think of off hand. One pays a mortgage and has three young kids and a wife who is maybe working part time now. Maybe not. I don't know how they make ends meet. The other employee has a newborn at home, a wife who is home with the baby, and a massive amount of student loan debt. They live in a small apartment above a business. They can't afford to buy a home.

Both of these employees make around $60,000 a year, and are really just paying their bills, and they regularly work overtime to have any kind of savings. I really wonder how underwhelming their 401K savings are. there are several more folks like that in my place of work.

Neither of these individuals would even think about dropping a lot of money on a rifle because their families come first. One of them does hunt to provide food to his family. But he does so with a cheap rifle that gets the job done.

I think money comes into play more than anything. The folks who can afford a really nice rifle are the ones who already have several really nice rifles. The "tactical" shift in popularity also comes into play. A few years ago I bought a Ruger No. 1 chambered in S&W 460 Magnum. At the time, they weren't producing that rifle in that chambering anymore, so the price for a NIB one was high. After buying it, I had a few folks ask me why I bought an old obsolete single shot rifle. They truly couldn't understand why I bought it, or why I'd pay as much as I did for it.

It's a different economy, and a different generation, with different interests. I bet your gun will sell. It's just maybe going to take awhile.
 
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I have to think the "nice" bolt guns are following a trend that hit "nice" revolvers in the past. When cheap reliable polymer handguns hit the market nobody really wanted those old outdated revolvers (yes, I know several of YOU still like them, but as a whole the market demand dropped). Then after a some time demand for revolvers started going back up as shooter rediscovered them. Today we have Colt getting back into the revolver game and Kimber is dipping it's toes. Older well taken care of Smith's command a premium price.

In the bolt action world cheap affordable polymer stocked bolt guns are popular right now, not to mention competition for AR platforms. It's not that hard to get a sub MOA shooter bolt action for under $300. The good part about that is it's bringing new rifle shooters into the market. The bad news is it may take 10-15 years before these new shooters want to upgrade to a more premium bolt gun so demand could stay stagnant for a while.
 
I am not drawn to the new demand - I just have to accept the market right now as it is and keep shooting my traditional stuff.

Unfortunately, it's a bear market for classic deer hunting rifles.
In appearance, I'd prefer blued over nitrided, wood stock over polymer, floorplate over a plastic mag. However, when a person goes to their LGS or big box outdoor store, what do they see? A whole wall of inexpensive, budget rifles. It is sad, but that is the norm now of the "value engineered" hunting rifle. As much as we want to think guns are timeless, firearms have a lot of trends. There will be a time in the future when classic style rifles are in demand - ie when people's appetite for inexpensive rifles wane.

I would wonder if there is sticker shock on the rifle+rings+scope price. For example, buying an $800 rifle seems like a lot, but palatable for a quality rifle. The next month, it doesn't seem that bad to get a $500 scope and spend $80 in rings and bases. However, if they are all together for $1,380.00, it seems like more money and fewer people would want to pay that all at once. It may make sense to try to sell the rifle with rings separate from the scope.

It may be the caliber. I say this only because it wasn't mentioned. If it's a Kimber Classic select grade and the choices are 300WM, 270, 30-06, 243, 257R, and 308 - most of those are reasonable choices. However, I would think the 300WM, 257R, and to some extent the 243 would be harder to sell. Then again, 270 and 30-06 aren't selling like they used to.

The other thought, especially when talking about Kimber, is that the Classic is the "caught in the middle" offering. The Hunter is their budget rifle for quality with some cost cutting. However, when people want "the best" that Kimber has to offer - most of the time they are talking about Montana, Mountain Ascent, and Adirondack. The Classic is just kind of skipped over.
 
Paint the entire gun and scope in a desert sand and muted brown "camo" theme, add a bi-pod and market it as a "sniper" rifle then up the price 50%. It will sell.
 
It's a different economy, and a different generation, with different interests. I bet your gun will sell. It's just maybe going to take awhile.


Yet we have more boutique\custom makers than ever before.

Some of the other forums I am a member of buy/sell multi-thousand dollar guns hourly.
I would not attempt to try and sell one on this particular site though.

Location is likely the key IMO. Personally I'd put it on gunbroker.
 
I am all in favor of value rifles if it gets more people in the woods hunting. That said I can appreciate a quality firearm even if I cannot afford it. We are living in good times right now.
 
Was at my FFL’s the other day. He often buys guns...An older retiree had several shot guns, he wanted to sell..they were beautiful guns,, wood, or course,,top of the line..don’t remember the gauges or the choke...but the dealer didn’t buy any. After the gentleman left, dealer said he would have never been able to resell them,,,wrong guns for this area.
 
The older types are in good demand in this area, but many of the boomers who enjoy them are attempting to pare down the inventory. I found an as new wood/blued A-bolt in 6.5 Creedmoor at the LGS a month or two ago, marked $375. The owner assured me that was no mistake--that was where prices were at that time.

I suspect that $340 would have bought it, but I have vowed to quit buying things just because they seem to be attractively priced.
 
Speaking as a former salesman, there is never more than one reason goods don't sell in a fair market: price. Period.

Consider this: if you offer your rifle for sale for ten cents, I will buy it sight unseen, and go about setting up delivery. Let's call that the low end. (Yes, there is lower, one, two, three, four cents and so on, but a dime serves the purpose for demonstration.)

At the price you were asking, there was no interest. That's the high end. That price might as well be a million dollars, or ten million dollars. There is no interest at that price.

Somewhere between the low end and the high end is a price that the rifle will sell quickly and efficiently. You probably won't need to go all the way down to my dime to get an offer. Somewhere on that scale, you will interest someone, and the lower you go, the more interested they will be. You might not be interested in going low enough to get the offer or to sell the rifle, but that doesn't change the fact that the price exists where the rifle will sell quickly.

Saying that demand has dried up, that there is no market, etc., etc., etc., simply isn't true as long as there is a low end price at which someone will snap the rifle up with no questions. And there is. A dime. I'm right here.

The only question is how far down the spectrum between the low end and the million dollar high end you are willing to go, and whether there is anyone who will come up high enough to meet you.

There is only one reason goods don't sell. Price.
 
All very good points of wisdom and economic fact; btw a .308. Regardless of reason, it is a keeper now. I am not very disappointed that it did not sell - it is a thing of beauty - I don’t think that my others arms will kick it out if the safe - another life’s learning experience.
 
Something to consider.
A few months ago I decided I wanted a decent bolt gun in .308 so I was looking around. Nearly every salesman either pushed those economy rifles at me or the overweight, over priced “tacticool” guns. (I say “over priced” because they aren’t worth the money to me)

Not saying that is what happened in your case but I have a feeling the profits on those cheap guns might be higher than one might suspect.
 
I think it just depends on price and location. There's a pawnshop in a little town down the highway that is liquidating a HUGE estate consisting of thousands of mostly wood and blued guns. Lots of CRF and premium Euro push feed rifles like Blasers. A fair number of single shots and lever actions too. They priced them to move - for example, on Kimbers classics in excellent condition $800. They have now sold all but a few - I'm guessing maybe 2 million dollars in guns. Some of it on Gunbroker, but a good bit local.

So there is a market and a seven figure market at that, but it is price sensitive.
 
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