Virginia's next move

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The conundrum is that gun rights have been tied, deliberately for cultural, marking and social reasons, to appeal primarily to conservatives. Outreach outside of that demographic is limited and usually denounced by many who want the gun world to be primarily culturally conservative.The NRA deliberately played that market slice as their folks saw it as most financially lucrative.
Assuming all this as true, then from an activism standpoint, what are you advising as a solution?

Are you claiming that a politically neutral outreach effort into the liberal community will result in changing views that translate into votes against gun control and for gun rights?

I have to say I'm skeptical. I'm certainly familiar with the reality that there are those who self-identify as liberal or conservative but don't hold the mainline views on gun rights/gun control that are typically associated with their political leaning. They're not common but they are out there. The problem, in my experience, is that they almost inevitably vote their party not their views on gun rights/gun control. Which means that such outreach efforts would be, from a practical standpoint, wasted effort.

Furthermore, I'm not entirely on board with the idea that the association of gun rights with conservatives and the association of gun control with liberals is some sort of conspiracy perpetrated on an unsuspecting populace by the NRA, or by any other entity. It seems to me that the general, foundational principles of conservatism and liberalism heavily influence the gun rights/gun control views of each group. Looking at other countries where there is no NRA, where the U.S. lobbying organizations don't exist, and where the political parties have different names seems to bear this out.
 
Can you change the minds of the new folks coming into town? Otherwise, you end up like an isolated unit of the Japanese Army on some bypassed island. Guns folks just don't get this. Saying you have to do something is the motto of the gun banners. It works for them. Won't work for you.

This^^^^^

1. Preaching to the choir on gun boards is a waste of time.

2. Get involved in the election of city council folks, county commissioners, sheriffs, and school board members. That's where many state legislators come from.

3. Write your state and federal legislators?

4. Simply donating money to pro-gun organizations won't get it done.

5. VOTE!!!

i hear lots of complaining, usually after the fact; also read large numbers of rants. i don't see many folks getting together and agreeing on a plan.
 
This^^^^^

1. Preaching to the choir on gun boards is a waste of time.

2. Get involved in the election of city council folks, county commissioners, sheriffs, and school board members. That's where many state legislators come from.

3. Write your state and federal legislators?

4. Simply donating money to pro-gun organizations won't get it done.

5. VOTE!!!

i hear lots of complaining, usually after the fact; also read large numbers of rants. i don't see many folks getting together and agreeing on a plan.

+1
It will take both money and actual physical effort/participation to hope have any effect. A lot on here keep regurgitating the same “it won’t work, demographics too great, political associations, etc.” without coming up with alternatives. Few here made recommendations and we could use others.
 
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The situation in Virginia is that the best hope to stymie (or moderate) the governor's worst antigun plans lies with the few Democrat legislators, mostly from rural areas, that might be open to hearing our arguments. For example, it's almost a foregone conclusion that some form of UBC's will be passed. But, these UBC's don't necessarily have to involve FFL's, transfer fees, Form 4473's, and entries in dealers' "bound books." There's already an existing (voluntary) system in which the State Police are required to have tables at every gun show, and to offer direct background checks to buyers/sellers on request. This system could be expanded as an acceptable alternative to going through an FFL.

The pro-gun lobby needs to reach out to these moderate Democrats. It's counterproductive, at this point, to stay wholly within the Republican tent. We have to have proposals ready to mitigate the worst aspects of the antigun agenda. Stonewalling won't cut it anymore.
 
I won't repeat myself. Mining conservative rural votes for the last nonvoter is a long term loser. Believe it or not. If you think an expansive message can't be crafted, then the cause is lost. The tying of guns to 'conservative' values is exactly the problem. Some folks want the gun club to be ideologically exclusive with total purity and absolutism. Thus, you face total loss. The idea that that SCOTUS will save the day is an unknown. Strong statements by some justices doesn't mean that will be what happens if a decisive case goes to court. The NYC and Remington cases just nibble around the edges and won't speak to wiping out state bans (the major threat), freeing up and legitimizing carry (some say NYC will - I don't think so).

The disarmament of the populace down to limited handguns and shotguns is on the way.
 
The tying of guns to 'conservative' values is exactly the problem.
I don't disagree with this. What I question is the idea that "tying" was an active endeavor perpetrated on the public by an organization (or organizations) as opposed to being the the most natural outgrowth of the fundamental principles of the political viewpoint.
The disarmament of the populace down to limited handguns and shotguns is on the way.
I agree. But when it happens, it won't be because gun owners were unwilling to welcome liberals into the fold, it will be because the left collectively rejected the general principles of gun rights and because even the minority on the left who did support gun rights still gave the majority of their support to politicians who pursued gun control.
 
There are a very vocal group of members on THR that support UBC’s, waiting periods, prohibiting folks with mental disorders and minority’s from owning guns.
I don't believe that there are people on THR that support UBC's and the other things out of principle. However, if things are going to pass anyway, it might be wise to dialogue with the antis in order to mitigate the damage. None of these things, including UBC's, are binary choices. There is always a range of options, some of which are significantly worse (or better) than others.
 
I think many are making the mistake of acting as if "conservative" or "liberal" are the only group relevant to this discussion. The great number of independents or undeclared or even somewhat liberal or somewhat conservative are neglected and might be reached if we would drop the "there are only two sorts of voters" absurdity. I'll point out that the Anti propaganda campaign is partly successful because we have shot ourselves in the foot by making this a "conservative" issue AND they have taken those so-called conservatives who shoot their mouths off and turned them into talking points to make Moderates not want to be associated with us.

Reach out to those rural Democrats who represent districts with and those in the strongly military communities, reach out to the elected Democratic officials in those areas and point out that the north VA urban/suburban area is going to turn VA in IL were Chicago runs the state and the rest is just dragged along. Appeal to their desire to be reelected and make it clear that the extreme positions can loose their seats for them in a backlash like Bill Clinton so richly learned after the AWB.

We can not keep doing the same thing that helps us loose and must change the tactics that alienate people that aren't Antis.
 
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Virginian's didn't care enough to vote for pro 2nd Amendment candidates, why would anyone think they have what it takes to save things now? 30 seats went to Democrats uncontested, the GOA didn't contribute a penny in this fight. the VCDL started in NoVa and that's where the fewest conservatives are.
 
The reality is that the voters get to choose their leaders and there is not much in the way of preventing those leaders from coming up with bad ideas to enact into law.
 
Our country is becoming more urban each and every year. Grew up in VA but left many decades ago. Friends who still live in the area see no need for a firearm. They’ve never hunted or even shot a rifle, let alone a handgun. Northern VA is very wealthy and by and large safe. There’s a concern, they contact the police. I don’t think we will ever convince most of those residents there’s a need for firearms.

This is happening all over the country. The big cities, with their big population, have the ability to set the rules that apply statewide and rural residents are left with limited options. Sad times indeed.
 
I am in the process of trying to get info on Lobby Day (Jan 20, 2020) from the VCDL. I have never been in anything like it, so don't know what to expect, but am hoping to attend as part of a last-minute (or ditch) push to have our voices heard.
 
Below is another update from VCDL. We will need to get ready to act and do their part!

Governor Northam wants war

Northam has declared war on Virginia's gun owners: CHP holders, open carriers, hunters, target shooters, sport shooters, collectors, and competitors. All of us. (Northam wants to strip us of our right to self-defense and is even looking at confiscating guns.)


So be it! But we are very much in the fight

As the dust cloud has been settling from election day, my optimism that we can derail a lot of Northam's agenda has been growing steadily.

Admiral Yamamoto, after bombing Pearl Harbor in 1941, famously said, "I fear that all we have done is to awaken a sleeping giant and fill him with a terrible resolve."

Yes, that is exactly what Pearl Harbor did. And that's exactly what shoving gun control down our throats will do, too!

And we are tired of so called "compromises," that always involve us giving up some of our rights, and getting absolutely nothing in return. That is not a compromise, that's stupid!

Virginia's gun owners are model citizens, with CHP holders being the most law-abiding of the law-abiding. We are fed up with being punished and pushed around every time some lunatic shoots up another gun-free zone or some gang-banger kills a bunch of other criminals. We have no more patience for being abused and we won't cede another inch without a fight.

There is no such thing as "common sense gun control." In reality, gun control is a black hole that sucks common sense and our liberties into oblivion! It hits poor minorities and women the hardest, but it ultimately affects all good people. Criminals get their hand slapped and are released to continue their acts of mayhem with illegally owned firearms.

A government that doesn't want its citizens to be able to protect themselves clearly has an ulterior motive for wanting a disarmed populace. We dare not turn over our guns to such a government, ever.


It's time to organize and create a "machine" that will
fight back wherever gun control rears it's head

We can put a major dent in Northam's plans if we begin preparing and organizing NOW, before the new General Assembly is sworn-in in early January.

Here's what we need to do (alerts will be going out on these items soon):
Strong gun-owner activism in Democratic districts. Democrat legislators in some of the more pro-gun areas of the state voted gun owners with impunity over the last 4 years because they knew the Republican majority would never let gun-control bills become law. Thus, their bad votes wouldn't actually change the status quo and probably wouldn't wakeup and anger gun owners in their district. With the new Democrat majority, they will own any gun control that gets passed for the next two years. Gun owners living in such districts need to be extremely active. Reach out to other gun owners in the district to get them involved, get them on VA-ALERT, and have them join VCDL. Contact your Democrat Senator and/or Delegate and keep the pressure on them to steer clear of all gun control. Go to their office and meet in person. Some anti-gun Democrats have actually told our members that they have never met with anyone who opposes their anti-gun voting! If enough gun owners do this, it WILL get their attention. Contact your Democrat legislators whenever VCDL requests you do so. Let there be no doubt: you can play an absolutely crucial role in slowing down, moderating, or stopping major parts of Northam's agenda by putting pressure on your Democrat legislators!
Watch Teams for local government (WTLGs). For each locality in Virginia, we need a team consisting of one or more local members to watch everything that the Board of Supervisors or City Council is doing. The WTLGs are looking for anything that affects firearms in any way, including hunting restrictions, and keep VCDL informed of what is planned or occurring so we can react. If we lose Virginia's preemption law, WTLGs will be critical in the effort to block local gun-control.
Liaison Teams for Local Government (LTLGs). For localities that have some gun-friendly supervisors or council members, we need to be able to interface with them. The purpose is to get inside-track information on any proposed gun control or hunting restrictions, as well as to work with them to implement pro-gun ordinances or resolutions. For example, making the locality a Second Amendment Sanctuary against unconstitutional gun-control laws, or lowering CHP fees.
Liaison Teams for Law Enforcement (LTLEs). LTLEs will interface with local sheriffs or chiefs of police who are supportive of gun owners and are willing to stand with us in preserving our rights. When an appropriate time comes, we will be looking for chief law-enforcement officers who would be willing to speak with one voice with gun owners at the General Assembly. We would also want to be looking for chief law-enforcement officers who would be willing to make their jurisdiction a Second Amendment Sanctuary against any gun control that is unconstitutional. No law-enforcement officer is required to enforce, or should enforce, an unconstitutional law.
More volunteers at the VCDL table at gun shows, festivals, and other events. Just this weekend in Richmond, there were gun owners who approached the VCDL table and had no clue about how precariously their rights are hanging after the election - I kid you not! We must educate our fellow gun owners on the threat that we now face. Do NOT assume they know what you know!
Advance litigation preparation in case we have to use the courts to stop unconstitutional gun laws. VCDL and its attorneys are developing contingency plans.
A huge Lobby Day on January 20, 2020 (starts at 8 am at the General Assembly Building in Richmond). Speakers for the rally (11am - noon) are being lined up and will be announced as the event draws nearer. This time the rally will be in an excellent, picturesque location on the steps of the Capitol, instead of in the field by the Bell Tower!

More Second Amendment Sanctuaries are coming!

VCDL has already been approached by several localities which want to become Second Amendment Sanctuaries! (We expect this trend to continue.) VCDL has given them some guidance and I expect to see announcements of such sanctuaries starting in January.


Patience, please, as VCDL is dealing with a flood of
incoming information and requests

I am personally getting over 700 emails a day (as I write this, I have 1,004 unread emails in my inbox since Friday), plus phone calls, texts, and Facebook contacts, as well as doing radio interviews and speaking at meetings. Please bear with me and the organization as we slog through the flood of information and requests. (The other Board members and some of our executive members are doing their best to take up the slack. The VCDL-PAC is compiling some useful information to help with the upcoming fight in the General Assembly.)

Don't listen to the defeatists. That is exactly what our opponents want us to do. Be fearless, stand strong and united with all your fellow gun owners, and be ready to fight back when the time comes!
 
Folk's it's not a lost cause: The Democrats did not win by a catastrophic landslide. In 2020 the Democrats will control the VA House of Delegates 55-45 and the Senate 21-19. Those are not insurmountable odds.

Identify the less vociferous about gun control Democrats in the legislature and attempt to deal with them: Talk with the rural Democrats. Suck it up, forget about everything except your Second Amendment rights: Attempt to work with those folks.

Has anyone rated all the VA legislature members? How many anti-gun Republicans are there, if any?

i simply don't believe that six pro gun Democrats can't be found in the VA House and two more in the Senate. This could be an easy task for a few good organizers. Problem comes when followers act like folks on gun boards; a gaggle of cats. :D
 
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i simply don't believe that six pro gun Democrats can't be found in the VA House and two more in the Senate.
It's not that some Democrats might be "pro-gun" (at least to the extent of bucking their party). It's that some Democrats might be less anti-gun than others. That is where the split might be. I think the red line will be an AWB without grandfathering. We won't find unanimity among the Democrats for that one. Even the governor is waffling on whether he will seek confiscation. Before he does so, he will be doing a head count among his own party.

On other things, such as UBC's, the devil will be in the details. There's lots of scope for fine-tuning, even though the thing in general is a done deal.
 
I do travel through Virginia. Bloomberg bought the state, with a large lump sum, all at once, But might not millions of us, all voting with our wallets,in smaller denominations, be able to buy it back ?
 
I do travel through Virginia. Bloomberg bought the state, with a large lump sum, all at once, But might not millions of us, all voting with our wallets,in smaller denominations, be able to buy it back ?
It's not that simple. Money is only a small part of it.
 
Even the governor is waffling on whether he will seek confiscation.
Bernie just repudiated Robert Francis's mandatory buy-backs/confiscation as unworkable and unconstitutional. It crashed Robert Francis's try for the nomination and was dissed by the benchmark for leftist candidates. That's a great bit to throw at the confiscation proponents.
 
As an update, I am going to Lobby Day on 1-20-20 to stand with the VCDL. Got my wife going, got a buddy going, he got his wife and 2 more. This is spreading, we need to have a good show of numbers standing in opposition to these proposals. It is MLK day, so some will already be off work. VCDL lists this as the most important thing they do all year. If you truly believe in "By the people, for the people", and "shall not be infringed", now is the time to make your voices heard.
 
Has anyone spoke with or heard from their state senator or delegate since the election? I have spoken with mine.
 
The 2020 Assault Weapons Ban bill (Senate Bill 16) has been pre-filed. The text is here:

https://lis.virginia.gov/cgi-bin/legp604.exe?201+ful+SB16+pdf

The good news is that the ban on magazines over 10 rounds would not apply to possession (that is, currently-held magazines would be grandfathered), and that suppressors have been dropped from the bill. Machine guns are still not included in the bill, and with their magazines and belts grandfathered, they would continue to be usable. Ordinary pistols (those with magazines housed in the grip) would not be affected by the bill.

The bad news is that the rest of the bill is the same as what was previewed last summer. No grandfathering of the guns themselves. Even though suppressors would not be illegal, semiautomatic guns (rifles and pistols) with threaded barrels would be, so suppressors could only be used with bolt action rifles and revolvers.

If two words, "possession" and "transport," are dropped from the one place they appear in the bill, we would have complete grandfathering. I think there's a good chance of that happening provided there's a concerted lobbying effort.

There's going to be a panic and mad scramble to buy things before the presumed effective date of July 1st.
 
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