A pair of revolving rifles

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Jessesky

Jessesky

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This is my entry back into the world of Percussion revolvers. After selling my 1860 some years ago I came across these two carbines. The seller wanted a stunningly low amount for the pair and could not pass it up.

They appeared to be in rough shape, but a little time and scrubbing got rid of the surface rust like nothing. One being an 1858 and the other a 3rd model dragoon.
08B48A9A-ABF4-414B-B68F-E349AE2E1DF7.jpeg

Any tips on loads, or cleaning methods? Both are .44 one made by EMF, the other Uberti
 
Nice!

I have never seen a 3rd model Dragoon with a barrel that long, it actually looks pretty cool. I'm typically a hot soapy water user when it comes to cleaning, but for something like that I would probably try Ballistol. I'm going to use Ballistol when winter breaks and I get my BP revolvers on the range again.
 
Wow! What a neat pair, especially for the price. I never have fired a revolving rifle and hope you will report back after you have used them.
 
Nice Score. The Remington had been on my wish list for a time and early this summer I pulled the trigger and bought one. Listed below are the powder weights and the velocities I recorded.

Powder was thrown with Lee powder dippers.
.454 Round Ball, 1/8th thick felt lubed wad. Grafs 3F powder. Cylinders, it came with two, were loaded off gun.


Low to High Velocities
1.6 CC 25 grains 884 FPS. 929 FPS
1.9 CC 30 grains 971 FPS. 1009 FPS
2.2 CC 35 grains 1055 FPS. 1073 FPS
2.5 CC 40 grains 1080 FPS 1153 FPS. The 2.5 CC No wad, grease over ball.

For general fun shooting I go with the 25 or 30 grains in both the carbine and my 44 caliber revolvers.



As to cleaning. I use the hot water and Dawn dish soap approach. Cylinders are dismounted and held under a running hot water tap while scrubbed with a tooth brush around the nipples and a bore mop thru in the chambers. Colt barrels are treated the same as well as the frames, after the grips are removed.
Everything is blown dry with high pressure air then generously lubed with Ballistol, the bores with a bore mop. I also direct the aerosol nozzle into the various openings of the frames then direct lower pressure air into the openings to distribute the oil and remove excess.
 
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whughett said:
Nice Score. The Remington had been on my wish list for a time and early this summer I pulled the trigger and bought one. Listed below are the powder weights and the velocities I recorded.

Powder was thrown with Lee powder dippers.
.454 Round Ball, 1/8th thick felt lubed wad. Grafs 3F powder. Cylinders, it came with two, were loaded off gun.


Low to High Velocities
1.6 CC 25 grains 884 FPS. 929 FPS
1.9 CC 30 grains 971 FPS. 1009 FPS
2.2 CC 35 grains 1055 FPS. 1073 FPS
2.5 CC 40 grains 1080 FPS 1153 FPS. The 2.5 CC No wad, grease over ball.

For general fun shooting I go with the 25 or 30 grains in both the carbine and my 44 caliber revolvers.



As to cleaning. I use the hot water and Dawn dish soap approach. Cylinders are dismounted and held under a running hot water tap while scrubbed with a tooth brush around the nipples and a bore mop thru in the chambers. Colt barrels are treated the same as well as the frames, after the grips are removed.
Everything is blown dry with high pressure air then generously lubed with Ballistol, the bores with a bore mop. I also direct the aerosol nozzle into the various openings of the frames then direct lower pressure air into the openings to distribute the oil and remove excess.
Click to expand...
I did have a question about shooting conicals. A .454 round ball will swage easily, there’s not a large bearing surface, and I get the lead ring when I seat them in the cylinder which is good. On average lead round balls I’ve seen are a brinell 5 hardness.

My question is now using 200gr conicals I’ve seen for the 45 colt. Since they’re a larger bearing surface my assumption is the diameter must be perfect because they won’t swage as easily, also most of the conicals I’ve seen are a brinell 12 which seems a bit hard for a cap and ball. Do you have a brand of conical you like? I don’t want to overpressure the gun , or get a bullet jammed that won’t seat in the cylinder
 
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If u have a dollar store there is a spray soap cleaner called "LA Awesome". Its a degreaser as well...but very gentle on bluing and will really clean up thw fouling and waxy greasy lube. I have some white black powder brushes that i thought were permanently stained black and kinda had an oily film...dawn nor carb/break cleaner could clean them...i used LA awesome and it made them white again.
 
Jessesky said:
I did have a question about shooting conicals. A .454 round ball will swage easily, there’s not a large bearing surface, and I get the lead ring when I seat them in the cylinder which is good. On average lead round balls I’ve seen are a brinell 5 hardness.

My question is now using 200gr conicals I’ve seen for the 45 colt. Since they’re a larger bearing surface my assumption is the diameter must be perfect because they won’t swage as easily, also most of the conicals I’ve seen are a brinell 12 which seems a bit hard for a cap and ball. Do you have a brand of conical you like? I don’t want to overpressure the gun , or get a bullet jammed that won’t seat in the cylinder
Click to expand...
I have never used conicals in cap and ball. I do have several conversion cylinders though and it’s just a matter of time until I get one for the Revolving Carbine. I load 45C in both black powder and smokeless for the conversion cylinders, so I guess those are conicals. .452 255 grain RNFP and 200 grain RNFP are both used.

As long as one follows the basic rule of blackpowder
shooting, projectile seated firmly against the powder charge, you will never over pressure the gun, at least not in a revolver, you can not get enough black powder in the chamber.

I’m sure others can comment on hardness, I cast balls and bullets and use what ever lead I can scrounge, these days it’s from the clubs back stop. Occasionally a ball will require more force to seat in the chamber, probably due to hardness.
 
For fun shooting I have used the Pyrodex 30 grain pistol pellets, a felt wad and a round ball. No measuring required.

For cleaning in the action CVA makes a foaming cleaner you can spray in and flush out with water. Blow out with your air compressor and spray in gun oil. Works great.

Ironhand
 
I shoot conical bullets in my ROAs and walker, I use 200 grain bullets 451 diameter that have been knurled. They work well and are accurate.
 
Jessesky said:
I didn’t even have to muster up too much! It was $100 each. I couldn’t say no
Click to expand...

That WAS a GREAT deal!

The Remingtons usually go for $4-500 used on GB.

I thought I was getting a good deal when I bought my 3rd model Dragoon with the long barrel and stock but you did much better as they often go for $6-700 when they show up.
EMF was the only importer of these sets made by Armi San Marco of Italy.
They also made normal length 3rd Dragoons with the same leaf sight.
I have not fired mine but I see Fingers McGee has a set he has fired.
 
Ephraim Kibbey said:
That WAS a GREAT deal!

The Remingtons usually go for $4-500 used on GB.

I thought I was getting a good deal when I bought my 3rd model Dragoon with the long barrel and stock but you did much better as they often go for $6-700 when they show up.
EMF was the only importer of these sets made by Armi San Marco of Italy.
They also made normal length 3rd Dragoons with the same leaf sight.
I have not fired mine but I see Fingers McGee has a set he has fired.
Click to expand...
You’re kidding me, that much!? I knew the cost of the Remington, but had no idea about the EMF. I figured it was valued around $350
 
So cool. But the idea of sticking my face over a black powder cylinder just plain makes me nervous!
 
roscoe said:
So cool. But the idea of sticking my face over a black powder cylinder just plain makes me nervous!
Click to expand...
The Colt’s shoulder stock I’ve shot has a longer pull than normal, but yes, safety glasses are mandatory imo...
 
One does get peppered, that is I can feel particles hitting my face. But then again I often feel that with my revolvers also. Like it’s already been said that’s why you wear safety glasses.

I also get spent cartridges bouncing off my forehead, glasses and on occasion down the front of my shirt.
 
buy conversion cylinders for them and shoot 45 long colt in them, that is what i would do.
 
A new Uberti Remington at Midway USA is now on sale for $490, regular price is $550.

https://www.midwayusa.com/product/1002300125

The Dragoon shoulder stock alone is probably worth in excess of $200 even in well used condition. I have seen a couple of previously owned repro 1860 Army shoulder stocks for sale lately on Ebay that went for over $230.

As EK stated, that ASM Dragoon 4-screw with the looong barrel is a rarity, plus it is cut for the shoulder stock. The longest barrel for recent Uberti Dragoons I have seen are 12". If you could obtain a .45 conversion cylinder for it, it would be a legal rifle (assuming the barrel is at least 16" long), and not be a BATF-unfriendly SBR (short-barreled-rifle). I would not modify the gun in any way to fit the cylinder (always modify the part, not the gun).

I am willing to trade straight across an Uberti Whitneyville Hartford Dragoon .44 and a Traditions 1851 Navy .36, both NIB (with original boxes) for your ASM Dragoon rifle. I would be willing to substitute a slightly used ASM 1860 Army .44 ([BC] 1993) with two cylinders (a round engraved cylinder and a full-fluted cylinder) in place of the Navy. Both guns in a cloth lined oak case.

PM me if interested for photos, etc.

Either the seller was in dire straits for money, or did not have a clue, or both.

You did not get a deal. You stole them!

Regards,

Jim
 
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