Lee Classic Loader (.44 Magnum)

There's the added advantage to Lee Loaders....they are good for a little excitement when you set off a primer...!!

Mr. Mosin said:

Heh. I've heard of that happening.

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Yeah, maybe the first thing to add is a priming tool. That helps a lot. I have a Lee Ergo Prime that I use for hand-priming. Sometimes I do it with the kit, sometimes with the tool. I've only set off a few. Way less than 1%. More like .1%. Try to avoid Federal primers, they tend to be more sensitive than the others.

Howdy

The first thing you need to know about reloading your own ammo is it is not any cheaper than buying it from the store. What you will quickly discover is that you are shooting a whole lot more for the same amount of money.

I bought my first Lee Loader back sometime in the 1970s or 1980s. I don't really remember exactly when. Like most who buy the Lee Loader I did not have much money and did not have space to set up a traditional loading press. I was loading 30-30 for an old Winchester Model 1894 I used to have.

I gotta tell you, once I plunked down the cash for a press, I never even looked at the Lee Loader again.

Somewhere in the advertising I think I read you can crank out about 50 pistol rounds in an hour with the Lee Loader. 50 30-30s per hour was fine, because with a rifle I don't tend to shoot that many rounds in a shooting session anyway. 50 30-30s is more than enough.

It is an entirely different story with a handgun. I routinely bring 3 or 4 boxes of 50 rounds to the range every time I shoot pistols or revolvers.

That would be 3 or 4 hours of loading on the Lee Loader.

The other thing I don't like about the Lee Loader is it provides a dipper for your powder charge. If I remember correctly there will be a pamphlet with the kit that will tell you how many grains of various powders the dipper will measure out. Since the dipper is a fixed volume, there will only be one grain weight of any specific powder the dipper will measure out. Now, I have been using powder dippers for years and years, but only with my Black Powder loads, where a grain or two more or less than the 'ideal' load does not matter. But I am here to tell you that using a dipper with Smokeless powder, where the total volume of the charge is much less than Black Powder, is far from ideal. Particularly if your are dipping charges near the Min or Max charge. Dipping powder is simply not as repeatable as using a good powder measure. Consistency of powder charges is entirely dependent on how consistently you dip out your powder from charge to charge. I always use the dipper like an ice cream scoop, dredging the dipper through the powder as if I was scooping out ice cream. I always try to keep my motion consistent from charge to charge, to keep my charges a consistent weight. If you notice in that video, the guy did not have a whole lot of powder in the cup he was dipping from. Maybe just for video purposes, but I would have a lot more powder in there, so I could get a consistent scoop every time. Also, in the video the guy dipped his charge and poured it directly into the cartridge case. Doing it that way, there is a small pile of powder on top of the dipper, and that can affect the consistency of your charges from charge to charge. When I dip Black Powder charges I ALWAYS scrape off the peak of powder in the dipper level with the top of the dipper with a piece of card stock. This leads to more consistent charges.

But frankly, a good powder scale is not that expensive, and if I were using a Lee Loader, I would be sure to do a sanity check with a scale every ten rounds or so to make sure I was dipping consistent charges.

And don't forget the most important reloading tool of all: a good reloading manual. Spend a few bucks on a good one, Lee, Lyman, Hornady, they all make good ones. Not the freebies the powder companies hand out, buy a decent reloading manual and read the section that actually describes the loading process. I am completely self taught at reloading, and I am not ashamed to tell you that for the first six months or so I had my reloading manual open as I proceeded from step to step in the loading process. Later on, it became natural and I did not keep the manual open as I loaded a bunch of ammo.

Also, buy yourself at least two loading blocks. Use the Two Loading Block Method. On one side, depending if you are a lefty or a righty, keep the cases that are about to go through each process. Once through the process, transfer them to the other loading block. That way you can keep track of which cases have been processed and which cases have not. Makes things much simpler and helps eliminate mistakes.

But frankly, there are lots of ways to set up a conventional press with C clamps and mount it temporarily to what ever horizontal surface might be available.

Been there, Done that too.

walnut1704 said:

Yeah, maybe the first thing to add is a priming tool. That helps a lot. I have a Lee Ergo Prime that I use for hand-priming. Sometimes I do it with the kit, sometimes with the tool. I've only set off a few. Way less than 1%. More like .1%. Try to avoid Federal primers, they tend to be more sensitive than the others.

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Yup, even today although I have lots of space, I only clamp my old Lyman Spartan press onto my bench when I need it. Otherwise it hides under the bench. And I always seat my primers with my old RCBS hand priming tool when using my old Lyman press. Never did like the primer feed on it.

Those who have sharp eyes will notice there are actually not any primers in the tool, this photo has been staged. With one loading block on either side of the press, to transfer cases from left to right as each process is completed.

Mr. Mosin said:

Off topic, but what is that revolver pictured in your avatar ?

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That's a Colt Detective Special.

CajunBass said:

I've got a couple of the old "wack a mole" Lee-Loaders, in the cardboard boxes....357 and 44 Magnum actually. I got them a few years ago off E-bay mostly for the nostalgia factor. You can indeed load specials in both (And the reverse...I loaded many a 357 using my old 38 Special LL back in the day). I don't know how many 38 wadcutters I put up using one of those little kits back then.

But today I don't have any more room than I did back then, but I don't use the wack a mole kits anymore. Today I use a Lee hand press and a set of regular dies. I normally dip powder with the Lee dippers, but I do have a powder measure and scale. The dippers are just easier for the type reloading I do. A Lee priming tool, and a few other little pieces like case trimmers that all fit into a desk drawer and I'm in business. It's a lot faster, easier, and quieter than the wack a mole kits. Slower than a progressive or turret, but not much slower than a single stage press.

View attachment 872486

I think I paid about $150 for everything, but that was several years ago. Probably not much more today.

Later I did add an inexpensive case vibrator, but that's in the "nicesity not necessity" catagory. It sits under the desk when not being used.

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Nice loading set-up there CajunBass, I have the same minus the Perfect Powder Measure.

silvermane_1 said:

Nice loading set-up there CajunBass, I have the same minus the Perfect Powder Measure.

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To tell the truth I don't use the powder measure much anymore. All I load are plinking type loads, and over the years I've just picked a load that the dipper throws and I'm happy with it. The powder measure offers more versatility, if you want to change your loads but I'm too lazy to do all that now. Paper targets don't take a lot of killing.

Well the good thing about the Lee Perfect Powder Measure is it measures by volume vs. by weight.

Just sized some fired 44 mag brass that had 10 grs Unique/250gr lswc as a load.

Fired near mouth .456" Sized in Lee classic die .452" Got smaller by .004"

Fired near web .459" Sized .4585" very little change. .0005"

Most sizing takes place where the bullet is seated. Neck sizing is my guess.

The Lee classic die will not return brass to SAAMI standard for a loaded round. Brass fired in one 44 mag may not chamber in another 44 mag.

The crimping can be done on 44 spec or mag.

Mr. Mosin said:

Question on the Lee Loader Classic data sheets.... I've looked online at a sample sheet or two, and for each load, it gives you a range of bullet weights that will work with that load. Is that range of bullet weight any type bullet, at any weight in that range ?

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For the most part , yes. Most powder charges are on the light side or like a starting load.
But not always- Its best to check load data online & compare. Or ask on the reloading forum before loading. Load data is free at Alliant & Hodgdon websites.

A scale should be used to check powder charge weights.

I started with a .45 ACP lee loader on the back concrete steps using a scrap section of 2x8 as a work surface and a plastic mallet . Let me say it is not the way to load to feed a buddy's 1928A1 Thompson!

Back in the 1970's I was happy with a box of fifty a week for my Series 70 Mark IV, though truth be told I soon found a source of Police Surplus for less than store bought bullets (even lead) were costing me. A buddy used the .38 Special model for his Colt Agent and he had far more primer acciedents for some reason

Picking up a S&W M19 caused me to think more in terms of volume and I got a Lyman Press for desk mounting. I still occasionally used the Lee Loader for my .45 ACP needs, but the table unit once I got .45ACP dies and shell holder was MUCH Easer to use and much higher volume.

Around 1992 a buddy just starting got the lee hand tool, sort of a nut cracker like device held in both hands, that used regular dies. It was cheaper than a bench mounted unit and he used it sitting in his favorite living room chair for steps not involving primers or powder and would do a bucket of sizing and de priming and then do small batches from that until it got low then refill it. It seemed a good compromise between the "wack-a-mole" and a real press and when he got a real press he then already had proper dies.

I did a batch of .38 SPL with an old Lyman Tong tool for giggles. Hand and wrist got sore, but I suppose it would build grip strength used three or four times a week. I have one in .30-30 and keep meaning to use it just so I can say I have.

-kBob

I don't have any objection to dipping powder charges, but it does take a developed technique to be consistent. After all, a powder measure is a volume measure and a scoop is a volume measure. You can try scraping the top with a card, you can try tapping the scoop handle on the edge of the bowl. Whatever works for you. I tap.

Fine grain ball powders throw better for me than the flake powders. They tell you not to do this because if you're not weighing you could over-charge; but scooping more than once can work sometimes. This is the most consistent method for me with Trail Boss. In fact it's the only consistent method I found with Trail Boss which has huge donut-shaped flakes.

I like to charge 50 cases in a loading block and then randomly pull 10 and weigh them to see how consistent I am. About half the time I'm as consistent as the powder measure. The rest I'm only off by .01 grains. I can't tell the difference on target.

When you're at the range pick up a few pieces of small brass. If your Lee scoop doesn't throw what you want just attach a wire handle to one of the small cases and cut/file the length of the case to whatever size you need to make a scoop that will work. Then you can use whatever load you want and you're no longer limited to the Lee charge table. But you have to have a scale for this of course.

Mr. Mosin said:

Asked for the Lee Loader 2nd Edition for Christmas. Intent on a scale, but gotta get the gun first, heh.

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Well tell Santa that this is the best place to buy Lee stuff (I have no affiliation): https://fsreloading.com/lee-precision-classic-loader-44-magnum.html

Mr. Mosin said:

Trying to buy a caliber that Lee has the Classic Loader for, t

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So, you dont own a 44 or have a classic loader?

Its a good idea to ask questions before buying, as you are.

Skip the Classic loader. Buy a press with dies. I started with the Classic loader in the 1960s. . It gets old fast, when loading more then a few rounds.

Primer seating requires buying an extra tool to avoid primer KABOOMS. Hammering makes a lot of noise. If in an appartment, the neighbor's will not like the noise or KABOOMS.

The kit has no expander. This makes it harder to hammer the bullets into the case. Bullets will get deformed on seating.

Soon or later, the brass will need full length sizing, when rounds will no longer chamber. This is where the light loads help. Less pressure expanding the brass on firing.

Save up a few extra dollars and buy a better method to reload with.

Plus one on all of above by 243win. Got one in 1965 for 6mm Rem -- the first time you pop a primer while seating will jump start your heart -- otherwise no real damage.

FWIW,

Paul

I started out with a Herters C press back in 1967 ($13.00 I think) and now I have a Dillon 550B, a Dillon Square deal, a single stage RCBS and a single stage Lee for my loading. But, sometimes I spot a new bullet to try and don't want to switch calibers on a machine or change settings on a seater and I make a few with one of the lee Loaders.

You can also buy spacers. I cant remember if rcbs or redding makes them.

redding it is....

https://www.midwayusa.com/product/1012401468

walnut1704 said:

I don't have any objection to dipping powder charges, but it does take a developed technique to be consistent. After all, a powder measure is a volume measure and a scoop is a volume measure. You can try scraping the top with a card, you can try tapping the scoop handle on the edge of the bowl. Whatever works for you. I tap.

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Although both a powder measure and a dipper measure out powder by volume, there is a big difference. With a powder measure the powder drops from above into an adjustable cavity that portions out the powder. This is a mechanical device and much less subject to the variation than hand dipping is. The powder drops from above and fills the cavity. That's it. As long as you throw the rotating arm consistently the same amount of powder will fill up the cavity every time, with very little variation. I find that with Unique, one of the only Smokeless powders I use anymore, I constantly get +/- .2 grains with my typical loads.

I cannot say the same for hand dipping. How much powder you dredge into the dipper is completely dependent on the technique used to scoop the powder. If you are dipping charges near the MAX, watch out. A little bit of sloppiness with dipping may push you over the MAX. Dipping is fine for middle of the road charges, particularly for plinking as CajunBass does.

Regarding tapping the scoop to level the charge, you are defeating the purpose of the dipper. The dipper measures by volume. If one scrapes off the excess you have the original volume. If one taps it to settle the charge you no longer have the original volume. I always scrape, I never tap.